Catholics vs Christians

cturtle - It is the Christian belief that Jesus was God on earth, though he did not actually come out and say it. It was implied and one could believe such a thing. Islam hates this teaching. I don't agree with it either, but I can see how one can believe it and find it scripturally sound. Jesus was very correct when he said, "I did not come to make peace." He knew his teachings would be argued for centuries. Its deep stuffand can easily be interpreted several different ways.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

St John 10; 25-39
Jesus answered them, 'I tell you and you DO NOT BELIEVE. The works that I do in the name of my Father, these bear witness concerning me. But you do NOT believe because you ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP. My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me.
And I give them everlasting life; and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand. WHAT MY FATHER HAS GIVEN ME IS GREATER THAN ALL; and no one is able to snatch
anything out of the hand of my Father. AND I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.'
The Jews therefore took up stones to stone him. Jesus answered them, 'Many good works have I shown you from my Father. For which of these works do you stone me? The jews answered him, 'NOT FOR THE WORKS DO WE STONE THEE, BUT FOR BLASPHEMY, AND BECAUSE THOU BEING A MAN MAKETH THYSELF GOD.'


Yes, it was VERY implied.

"Even though is difficult, I can still dream."

I told you

I certainly cannot say you are wrong in your interpretation. It makes some very angry. Whether it is or is not, I don't believe God is angered by it. God does not expect us to understand what is far above us. God does however expect us to wonder and guess and trust.

What you interpret as Jesus being God I interpret as Jesus being swept up in the God spirit.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

Down South I was at a Church of Christ. They were sharing their facilities with a spanish speakiing congregation. As they were just beginning to form I decided to attend their services in support of the work although I don't speak spanish.
I would follow the teachings by comparing the spanish text to english which lead me to see something.
They translated Lord God as senor senor, now I knew a little & thought senor translated into mister. I reasoned that the old world which these people came used the term Lord to denote the nobility, (those who lorded over them) etc. This lead me to understand that Jesus is Lord means just that Jesus is King of Kings, Lord of Lords over those who raised themselves to rule over men, thus Christ is Lord of the earth.
As a Christian, your Lord & master is Jesus and His word takes presidence even other kings, presidents, etc.
Does this help?

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

Okcity, from my perspective, being swept up into the God spirit is not very clear and concise to me.

For all practical purposes, I suppose that if you look at the jewish perspective, they were awaiting the Messiah. Now in our language this is to mean, anointed. However, in truth to teachings then, it means God in the Flesh.
THIS is precisely why the jews did NOT believe him. They were expecting a majesty.

He was supposed to be received unto the earth by way of a chariot with white horses. But alas, they did not know, the riddle was in revelations too.

So, if you understand the old testament, then you would understand that Christ MADE HIMSELF LOWER THAN ANGELS AND BECAME MAN.

Also, one small clue exists in Genesis. 'Let US make man in OUR image.' Says alot.

Jesus always said MY KINGDOM DOES IS NOT OF THIS WORLD.
So, although HE is King, cturrle, it is not on earth. Matter of fact, if he were NOT God, how could he even claim a kingdom? Hmmm. All those small little catch phrases, are so taken for granted. But the words would be blasphemy repeatedly, if he were not but a God in the flesh.

Am I wrong?

"Even though is difficult, I can still dream."

Is it not written that the earth shall be His foot stool, so it is writtten that the Lord God 's Will be done on earth as it is in heaven? Can He be lowered unless He is equal to or greater than the angels (spiritual beings)?
Right you are that His kingdom is in heaven but the jews turned from His Teachings because they wanted a great King, who lead them to victory over the nations that they should be lords of this world, lording over others as their (gods) rulers. Just as they accepted Saul(?) as king because of his stature (height), he stood out among them. Being served by those whom they lord. Jesus example was the ruler serves his subjects needs, he serves them as they serve each the other.
As the Law of Moses was given so the Law of Christ was given to give distinction between Compassionate Being & Devouring Beast.

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'Let US make man in OUR image.'

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

Actually, Us and OUR means it was them. They are one. That was the point given.
I have to look up where it says Jesus created mankind.

For now, I am pretty beat.


Let me ask, who does the entire bible tell us to call upon?
Is it not said over and over in the old testament to call upon name of God?
Consider then; Clearly, the phrase is used of God in reference to prayer to Him. The phrase is never used in reference to anyone else other than God. Remember that "call upon the name of the Lord [YHWH]" in Hebrew was translated into Greek by the Jews in the LXX and they rendered "YHWH" into the Greek "kurios," which means "lord." This phrase was then used of Jesus in 1 Cor. 1:2.

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours," (1 Cor. 1:2).
NOTE: In the Greek, it is literally, "Call upon the name of the Lord OF US, Jesus Christ. This is why the English says, "Call upon the name of OUR Lord." Therefore, the phrase is the same.

This is clear evidence that Jesus is called YHWH since the same phrase used to address God is also used to address Jesus.

"Even though is difficult, I can still dream."

Funny I thought GOD was talking (human perception) to the angels (beings dwelling in heaven) which were many?
Have a good night, sleep well!
If Christ (heavenly being) came to earth & born of the flesh, then returned isn't that resurrection of the Spiritual body?
Or may be He maintained His spiritual form while being in physical body?

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
[  Edited by cturtle at   ]

They were not and are not waiting for God to come down on earth in the flesh. Ask them, they will tell you.

They thought the messiah would save them from the Romans. They could not believe that there messiah was hung by the Romans.

If God was on earth in the flesh, how did he also keep the stars in the sky?

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

IF that were true Okcity, that they were waiting for the messiah to save them from Rome, and they are still waiting,,,,,then they either at this point have no faith in God....or they wait in vein because they are safe from Rome, are they not??

Therefore, they have already seen their savior. He came, he saw, he died, he left.

Otherwise, what do they wait for now?
Rome is NO threat to them. So, shouldnt that wake them up...that and 2000 years of a total different way of life.

Not kicking them, but after all this time, and the changes made in the world, do they think God abandoned them, or what?

Can't they see the changes in the nations because of one man...Jesus. Christianity is predominant.
We have Muslim, Judiasm, and Christain as the predominant forces. With Christians out ranking the others in numbers. Hmmmm.

Perhapos they should look into studying Christianity, and see what the fuss is about. EH?

Nice to meet everyone.

"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."

quote:

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They thought the messiah would save them from the Romans. They could not believe that there messiah was hung by the Romans.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

quote:

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So if I say they thought. Then that means they USED to believe.

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"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."

patri, I noted a commonly touted misconception in another thread. The First Church was at Jerusalem. Others were established as Christainity spread, there are several others prior to Rome.
Although Catholics claim Peter as the head of the church was not Paul most instrumental in promoting the Church of Rome?

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

I don't know where we are going with this? I believe that Jesus was the messia and so does Islam. But I don't believe that Jesus was God in the flesh and neither does Islam. To the best of my knowledge the Jews were not waiting for God to come in the flesh as the messia. Then again, I do think there was something in the old testament about this, not that the Jews understood it. I believe in the Christ consciousness.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

Divisions

Forbidden in the church - 1Co 1:10

Condemned in the church - 1Co 1:11-13; 11:18

Unbecoming in the church - 1Co 12:24,25

ARE CONTRARY TO THE

Unity of Christ - 1Co 1:13; 12:13
Desire of Christ - Joh 17:21-23
Purpose of Christ - Joh 10:16
Spirit of the church - 1Co 11:16
Are proof of a carnal spirit - 1Co 3:3

Avoid those who cause - Ro 16:17

Evil of, illustrated - Mt 12:25

"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."