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Catholics vs Christians

User Thread
 60yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that unknown1 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Catholics vs Christians
Do catholics and christians get along? What I mean is, traditionally, are they co-existing religions or enemy religions?

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 75yrs • M •
johnstewart is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
I find the question interesting because Catholics are Christians, one of the first Christian groups, along with the Eastern Rite and Greek Orthodox. Christianity was separated by distance in the first couple of centuries AD, with bishops leading large geographical areas. When the bishop of Rome, considered to the the seat of Christianity, lobbied to be the head bishop (now called the pope) most of the bishops concurred, the eastern and orthodox groups dissenting.
Chistianity did not become completely fractured until the Protestant Reformation. Most of the religions that call themselves Christian are offshoots of what was originally considered Calvinism. The Protestant groups have no love for Catholicism because the Catholic religion has a long history of repression and almost dictatorial control in it's leadership. Times have changed and many Christian religions are seeking peace with each other. It took over 400 years to create the present groups of Christian religions and it will take some time and faith to heal the differences. A good question.

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 75yrs • M •
johnstewart is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Hi Decius....There have been scholars studying the Reformation since the 1500s and they still don't agree why things happened. I am a novice at this so my opinions will be more general than expert. When Martin Luther (a German Catholic priest) posted his statements in public, defying the orders of the Catholic (by the way - catholic is greek for universal) church he caused a furor that still exists. His complaints about church taxes and financial practices were valid. At that time in history the Catholic church was closely tied with the governments of each country and many bishops of that day were appointed from royal families. The bishops were responsible for keeping the people in line and collecting taxes. Religion was a very powerful force then because most of the world was illiterate and the threat of excommunication (thrown out of the church) was considered the end of life and a chance for paradise after death.

Luther got a lot of support from the German princes who were tired of the Catholic telling them what to do and by the time the pope took positive action (some 30 years later), Lutheranism had a strong foothold. The real source of most modern day Protestant religions is not Lutheranism, but Calvinism - for John Calvin, a follower of Luther - who took Luthers work and expanded it to create a new religious lifestyle that declared the pope and bishops had not authority over the people and a new 'better' religion was being established. Over time, almost 500 years now, as a new leader emerged, there would be fractures in Christianity and new churches would be started. I would say that the non-Catholic religions fall into three basic categories; (1) those that follow the old Christian ways (like Methodist and Episcopalian), (2) those that have established new rules like the various Baptist churches and the Mormons, and (3) fundamentalists, who basically believe that the bible is explicit and nothing else matters. All religions have problems with each other because they believe they are right and therefore the others are in error (sounds like any family of brothers and sisters). The hope is that someday all Christians will realize they are believing in the same God and the differences will become unimportant. Sorry this is so long but the questions have no easy/short answer......there are a lot of research sites on the internet about religions - go exploring.

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 42yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that rollergirl is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
^ awesome explanation. and very interesting.

i find the people that led the reformation movement to be intriguing characters. for example, elizabeth I that had translations of the bible in her chambers for her maids to read -- totally unheard of before then.

it must take such amazing character and strength to defy centuries of tradition and law. too many people obviously also died for their strength and ability to speak out.

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"get busy livin' or get busy dyin'..."
 75yrs • M •
johnstewart is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
You are right Rollergirl .... it takes either tremendous courage or tremendous frustration to stand up and defy established authority, primarily because established authority appears to have the power and control. It took centuries of abuse to drive the Reformation. Oh, Elizabeth was ahead of her time, but remember that her ladies were all daughters of the educated class. In her day only the wealthy educated their young. Illiteracy was the norm, not the exception then. I told my children to be glad their forefathers and foremothers were lawbreaking radicals who refused to obey established authority (the crown back then) because if they hadn't been radicals I'd be a Canadian citizen today (that's where all the loyalists went) ..... brrrrr on that idea.

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 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that shadowcult is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
A lot of people don't even know that Christian is a religion with several sub religious beliefs within it.

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"Emotions are for the weak minded, so cry me a river build a bridge and get over it."
 71yrs • M •
dadaedrum is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
dear ones, persons calling themselves christians would do well to study the new testament, rather that the writings of men be they "catholic", "protestant", or whatever other denomabomination that men have made up. it is often pointed out and so true that there will only be one church in heaven and is only one on earth. you don't join it, you are born into it by God from above. what man has done to obscure this reality over the centuries is shameful, sinful, and forgivable, but lets be honest it must be repented of if there is desire for and respect for the truth. Jesus pointed out to the "religious" leaders of His time (on earth) that they were in grave error for their teaching of the traditions of men. again the truth will set you free if you come to know it as the Lord Jesus Christ taught it. read the red letters, there is love in the red letters (the words of Christ).

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"if there is no God then all things are permissable"
 47yrs • F •
PoeticSoul is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Kahlil Gibran stated it perfectly I believe

The Truely religious man does not embrace A religion. He who embraces One religion has no religion.

Simply put WHatever higher being there may or may not be in its infinate wisdom understood that geographical as well as other factors would play a part in the belief system of mankind. Appearing to each race of man as they could best or would best understand and accept. Many faces one power caring for its followers in waays they can relate to. Various Gods and Godesses as needed or solitary individuals that merely were the avatars or voices of that power.

Just my thoughts on the matter

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"Humanity as a Whole... Pointless. Humanity if a TR"
 67yrs • M •
jeffthefinn is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
First the whole question bespeaks of lack of awareness that Catholics are Christian, so of course they get along. The fundamentalists are the ones that think the Catholic Church is a pagan religion and they seem to forget that their Bible came from the Catholics. Most Prostestants have no problem with Catholics.
Jeff the Finn

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"A man has got to know his limitations."
 31yrs • F •
gcbabydoll88 is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
I'm Catholic! lol

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"betta have ya nekkid by the end of this song!"
 53yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Actually the root of all the troubles were the power struggles. Back then in the 1500's the Catholic church was the only Christian church. They ruled everything, Including the royalty.

It was those who wanted to have the power not only stripped from the Chruch, but to have the same power.

There are 2 different versions, however, and the truth will remain unsolved. As far as a war today, NOT so much.

No one has the claim to heaven, but the Catholic church has maintained the traditions and oral teachings of Christ. The
protestants maintain the Bible as being solo scriptura. Which for a protestant, is fine.
I have no qualms with any other faith. There are 30,000 christian denominations. It would seem that the list of those protestant is a great number. AND so true, that Catholic means universal....which means this;
All the Catholic churches have the same readings and gospel on any given sunday as say...the one in USA has the same as the one in the UK...
also, note, the same concepts of faith are left unchanged.
Christian denominations will either change a stance or move to another 'denomination' they find more agreeable to what they hold true.

Basically, the unity of the two is faith in Jesus...and that's sufficient in an eternal reward. Even if the church of Catholicism has the original sacraments, its not impossible for faith to lead anyone to heaven who believes and is good.

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"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
 68yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Well such is the imperfection of man that he is lead astray of the Truth, the Way. The Teachings of Jesus, whom they call Christ. Whom they call King of kings and Lord of lords.
Patrish, I once had a friend who felt that "Christians being like-minded implied that we all would all think the same things. Which was rather hilarious to me because she was from a foreign country & was contantly advocating when we disagreed, it arose from these differences.
The Great Commission " To go out and teach (Christ) the Truth to the World." the root of the problem goes much deeper than the 1500's. Christian faith was on trial tribulation) from the beginning. The downfall of civilation and the "dark ages" produced Catholism, which seemed more intent on re-establishing "the Roman (style) empire rather" than teaching the Truth.
Which is to the greatest extent why they chose Latin, a dead language having translate scripture into it, according to Christian thought. If you read the New Testament note that the first christian were taught to live in a commual life style even with the (western) Roman Empire.
For these reasons some, jeffthefinn, (The fundamentalists are the ones that) think the Catholic Church is a (apostate) pagan religion.
PoeticSoul, Kahlil Gibran stated it perfectly I believe.
The Truely religious man does not embrace A religion.
I believe that it is not about religion but is about spirituality.
Jesus said those who seek to do the Will of My Father (GOD)
who are in Truth, His mothers, brothers & sisters.
About the woman who I mentioned earlier, she also complained that I wouldn't give (teach) her the answer to her questions. I finally came to say to her that like science and math, although the principles are written out (given) and that you may read them hundreds of times, you won't understand them until you are ready too. ( the dawning of the light)
Therefore you live by faith in the Word until the Spirit comes upon you. That the (Holy) Spirit then leads you into the wholeness of the Truth according to how well your spirit has prepared you to accept (understand) the Truth. By Faith you recieve the saving Grace (the spirit).

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
[  Edited by cturtle at   ]
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Catholic and Christian are the same thing. Catholic is a part of the Christian Religion. However - there is a large portion of the Christian Religion that believe that Catholics are not Christian. Their meaning of Christian: You have to believe that Jesus died for your sins as a sacrifice buying your salvation freely just for the asking. You ask through repentance and some don't even go that far. For the evangelists it's just a simple prayer that you're supposed to say and believe and confess your belief before a congregation (for some, this is the purpose of baptism in water).

Others claim that the Catholic church does not follow the bible. Once again (however) most theologians believe that the catholic version of the bible is the best translation. Having joined the Catholic church in my middle 20s. A very knowledgeable priest taught me the Catechism. Everything the Catholic church believes is in the bible. I have a book that outlines all of this, and the priest was able to show me even more. No question I had was left unanswered and every answer was found in the bible. I even took a Catholic bible study class that even covered Revelations. I though to myself, if only people knew. The Catholic Church is very scriptural.

It is to bad that some of the Christian faith have taken such a narrow view of what it means to be Christian or salvation to not include the Catholic Church.

I don't think this has anything to do with the reformation. Most people don't even know about it. One must study history, it isn't taught in school and your grandparents don't even know of it. If one was to keep score as to whom did the worst atrocities, I think it would be a tie. I'm glad I live today, if I lived back then, I'd surely be dead.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 68yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
okcitykid, interesting, I never heard that statement (most theologians believe that the catholic version) before. I went been to Chatholic church with my ex-wife, even purchased one of the most beautiful Bibles I have ever seen as a gift for her.
White leather binding with gold leaf overlay, supior grade paper with gold trim. Excellence quality of imagery befit Michael Angelo.
I was rather fascinated with the Old Testament Books which are not part of the Jewish canons (sp). I have wondered that perhaps their inclusion in the Catholic Bible may stem from converts from Jeudism? (As Jesus taught the Apostles to enter the Synagog to teach to the Israel first, then when rejected to teach to the Gentile) Perhaps the Jews of Rome where members of a particular sect which included them into their Torrah. Have you ever heard anything of that nature?
I'ave never heard it stated but it may be that one of the differences between ' Christians' being that some went to the original languages from which the 'Bible' was translated to produce their translations?
Actually baptism is of Hebrew origin, John the Baptist was not the first Jew to administer the' baptism of forgiveness.' Rather that Christ entered into John's ministry through baptism of water And that Jesus taught His Disciples (ministry) to do likewise produces the emthesis being put upon baptism by water(immersion in water to wash away sins) of some Christians. Not to be to one sided I will add that it was the 'baptism of the spirit' which was an indicator of acceptance to the early church while some fundalmentalist would argue that 'running water' was needed to be baptized.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
In 1985 in Connecticut I used to attend a Bible church. Unlike most protestants - they actually had a lot of good things to say about the Catholic Church. They were the ones who taught that the Catholics had the best translation, and we all studied from the Catholic translation.

I'm sorry about your theory about the Jews, Rome and the Torah. At that time you pretended to be Christian or you was put to death. Apocrypha you speak of in the Catholic bible used to also be in the protestant king james version until 1827. The original bible texts are gone. The oldest we have is the Latin text owned by the Catholic church used by both Catholic and Protestants. However - the new sea scrolls might reveal something new (still being worked on).

You are absolutely right about baptism. It is a Jewish practice of cleansing. Whenever you repented you would also be baptized, a symbolism of your sins being washed away.

Baptism of the Spirit - That should be a new thread. You make a new thread and I'll discuss it with you. I must warn you though - I do not believe in the fundamentalist idea of salvation. But I would be happy discuss the subject of baptism of the spirit with you. I have some experience, I'm not an expert, and I'm even a little curious about what you might be able to share with me.


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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
Catholics vs Christians
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