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"When I die, I want to die like my grandfather - who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car." - Ana Rpo

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christians?

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1347 Posts / 39M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

quote:
nor is it needed to have faith in the concepts and morals behind your religion.

But it is needed as a reference point.

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

3953 Posts / 48M

30yrs

Ironwood

It is needed as a reference point? A reference point is needed?

Try saying it like this.

"The bible is a helpful, welcomed, and appreciated reference point to me, and many others according to them." Or even, "I like others feel the need for such a reference point."

To express it as such a need delves into the aforementioned unhealthy degree of dependence which often results in a nasty side effect that many Christians or devout religious people suffer, along with people in general. That is irrational fear and defensiveness that can manifest in all the negatives you are trying to avoid by having this as a chosen guide, faith, or "belief".

Do you have faith and belief in the Bible, or the Bible's message?

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

1347 Posts / 39M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

If I am dependent on a God who provides all my needs then how am I hurting myself? Far from being unhealthy this allows me complete freedom. I can never be seperated from God and He is all I need so therefore I always have all my needs met.

quote:
Do you have faith and belief in the Bible, or the Bible's message?

Yes

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

72 Posts / 38M

25yrs

for the better

hmm a reference point is a good way of describing how i feel about the bible. when your every action needs to be acceptedor dissapproved by the writings of other men, your living experience on earth may lose something essential.

id hate to say that christians are suffering from bible dependence, because they rather enjoy that feeling of obiding by gods rules.
irrational? in your eyes maybe, in someones elses, a needed fear.
what ever belief makes you happy, endulge in it

772 Posts / 39M

25yrs

heyjme1

quote:
what ever belief makes you happy, endulge in it

Be cautious with this statement as a generality. It is only true sometimes.

""No words""

3953 Posts / 48M

30yrs

Ironwood

quote:
id hate to say that christians are suffering from bible dependence

Doesn't matter if you would hate to say it, it is true for some but not all.

There are many reasonable Christians in existance.

Those who indulge in overdependance lose the ability to discern reality from fantasy, and once that overcomes rational thought, when questioned, and that will happen, one can become a fundamentalist, extremist.

The Bible and many of its followers refer to those who question it, or God's word, as evil blasphemers worthy of death.

This is a healthy social structure?

quote:
If I am dependent on a God who provides all my needs then how am I hurting myself?

You are not expressing dependance in a God, but a belief in one, there is a difference. The problem is that you have chosen a structured belief designed by man full of human faults that will indeed cause conflict of the nature you see here, and worse.

God already gave you all you need in your existance and "free will", you chose to be happy in your place as a fragile being of limited power and control, with an understanding that you can within yourself feel one with God/universe.

Your dependance is in an idea that is perfectly sound when not combined with the human dogma and its face of sound judgement corrupted by unsound judgement and self contradiction.

quote:
what ever belief makes you happy, endulge in it

There are people who believe that raping and killing children gives them the power they desire to be happy, and they do endulge in it.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

72 Posts / 38M

25yrs

for the better

ok i didnt mean that. it was quite a broad statement.bleh

772 Posts / 39M

25yrs

heyjme1

Lol.

""No words""

1347 Posts / 39M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

quote:
You are not expressing dependance in a God, but a belief in one, there is a difference. The problem is that you have chosen a structured belief designed by man full of human faults that will indeed cause conflict of the nature you see here, and worse.

Just because my conclusions may match those of other people does not mean that we each haven't come to those conclusions legitimately. Anything that man believes in will ultimately appear to be manmade by those who do not accept its truth.

quote:
The Bible and many of its followers refer to those who question it, or God's word, as evil blasphemers worthy of death.

Of all the Christians I know I cannot think of one who does not question the Bible.

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

3953 Posts / 48M

30yrs

Ironwood

quote:
Just because my conclusions may match those of other people does not mean that we each haven't come to those conclusions legitimately.

And vice versa.

By choosing to accept influenced interpretations of experiences as validation of a structured belief system is all you are saying.

A choice of opinion as influenced by others.

quote:

Of all the Christians I know I cannot think of one who does not question the Bible.

And yet you, like many of them, continue to deem it the unquestionable word of God, interesting.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

1347 Posts / 39M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

quote:
And yet you, like many of them, continue to deem it the unquestionable word of God, interesting.

It is unquestionable because in all of my questioning I have yet to find fault with it.

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

3953 Posts / 48M

30yrs

Ironwood

quote:
It is unquestionable because in all of my questioning I have yet to find fault with it.

This is because you choose not to see it. Yet instinctually you are driven to question it, instinct created by God.

You are very silly. But aren't we all.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

1347 Posts / 39M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

quote:
This is because you choose not to see it

Maybe some choose to see that which isn't there.

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

3953 Posts / 48M

30yrs

Ironwood

Indeed, my young hypocritical friend who likes to make my points for me, indeed.

Unfortunately for you, contradictions within the Bible, its logic, and the inability to prove much of anything other than it exists are quite able to be displayed.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

1347 Posts / 39M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

quote:
Unfortunately for you, contradictions within the Bible, its logic, and the inability to prove much of anything other than it exists are quite able to be displayed.

Then quit alluding to them and display them.

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

christians?


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