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Musings of the Cynics
Main -> Social Awareness -> Religion  | NewPosts

christians?

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1347 Posts / 42M
     :   23yrs   :  
etherealmeekle

quote:
Your dad's wrong.


If her dad has achieved his own solitude and pride then how can you call his conclussions wrong? He doesn't have to base anything on a set of standards other than that by which builds his own pride. Anyone seeking out a religion which bases them as the chief deity cannot be considered wrong merely different.


"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

72 Posts / 40M
     :   26yrs   :  
for the better

EXCUSE ME??? uhm no, he didnt achieve any sort of solitude or pride in putting me down. and that wasnt very polite of you to even comment that, implying that maybe i am a ' a waste' logic is good, but sometimes you need to relax or it will kick your ass. wow ethereal


1347 Posts / 42M
     :   23yrs   :  
etherealmeekle

My comment was directed at Decius because by his definitions each of us is responsible for our own standards and therefore if you belief what Decius says you have no choice but to accept that your dad is right at least according to himself and that is the ultimate right in a world of human gods. This is the fundamental flaw of giving man the power to choose what is right and wrong.


"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

72 Posts / 40M
     :   26yrs   :  
for the better

ok ( a little less pissed )

i think that you analyze things a little much...
if your friend is feeling down because ( for ex. ) someone called them worthless, would you tell them, yeah, they were right about you? i dont think so, but maybe ( i dont know you )

in some situations, being supportive is more important that being analytical
-man was given the power to choose what is right and wrong -
you need some wrongs to develop 'right'.


1347 Posts / 42M
     :   23yrs   :  
etherealmeekle

But like I said I wasn't talking to you so much as pointing out a flaw in Decius' theory.

quote:
i think that you analyze things a little much


Probably

quote:
if your friend is feeling down because ( for ex. ) someone called them worthless, would you tell them, yeah, they were right about you?


Are you my friend? Besides I wasn't agreeing with your dad I was pointing out that if one believes that each man is his own god then no one else can ever say that someone else is wrong. Personally my 'guilty mentality' as Decius calls it tells me that all human life has great value.


"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

72 Posts / 40M
     :   26yrs   :  
for the better

no i am not your friend. obviously enough.
but you understand that Decius wasnt concerned with the actual event of who is right / who is wrong but was just generally being a kind person. ( ? )

yes every life has great value and in saying that i do not discredit my fathers statement. i just secretly disagree with it. i acknowledge the fact he is allowed an opinion.
how is that 'guilty mentality' doing anyway?


1347 Posts / 42M
     :   23yrs   :  
etherealmeekle

quote:
Decius wasnt concerned with the actual eventof whod right whos wrong but was just generally being a kind person


Do you prefer to have people lie in order to make you feel better?

quote:
i just secretly disagree with it


Not so secret now. Why be secret anyway you're allowed to form your own opinions.

My complaint is that Decius, according to his beliefs cannot judge another man's right or wrong so how can he make such a judgemental statement?

My 'guilty mentality' is doing just fine.


"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

72 Posts / 40M
     :   26yrs   :  
for the better

do i prefer people to lie? he wasnt lying because theres no definite right or wrong answer as to who was right or wrong. no i dont like to be lied to but i like being supported when i need it. and i know you probably do too.

what i meant by 'secretly' was that im not going to tell him personally that hes wrong. i didnt ask about your guilty mentality in a snobby way either.
please stop quoting me and picking apart my posts like theyre a loaf of raisin bread and all you want are the raisins.


1347 Posts / 42M
     :   23yrs   :  
etherealmeekle

quote:
theres no definite right or wrong answer as to who was right or wrong


What situation are you referring to?


"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

72 Posts / 40M
     :   26yrs   :  
for the better

when my dad said 'youre a waste' i cant prove that i am or if im not its all opinion


1347 Posts / 42M
     :   23yrs   :  
etherealmeekle

You can prove it though. Its like if I said you have black hair you could prove it one way or the other because hair is a physical trait. Worth is a physically manifested trait so that your value can be assessed accurately if one takes the time to look.


"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

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2848 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

Ethereal male: The obvious glitch in your thought pattern is that rather than ask me what I believe one should judge themselves by, you assume I mean themselves as if they are Gods.

I did not say that. And I still stand by the fact that if you require a religion and "abusive father figure" such as Christianity to keep you in line, then you are a weak person.

For the better's father has logic to judge his actions by. Logically, will his words aid or destruct his daughter. Logically, will the overall happiness of his household increase by saying the words he did.

There are a thousand reasons why saying something like that is wrong, not to mention that for the better is likely not a waste of a person because she has the need to come to forums like these to express her thoughts and share in discussion.

It is weak to adopt the beliefs of a 3rd influence unless you desperately need to for temporary levity. It is strength to determine the ways of the universe by observation, interpretation, and logic.

And yes, you will come to one difinitive conclusion in doing so. And trust me my brother, you will not feel guilty when that happens.

It is the programming of fals Christian beliefs that demeans you into believing that without Christianity you, as a sinner, will resume being sinful. You should give yourself more credit than that. You, as a human, have the capacity to live a righteous life without the eyes of the Bible glaring down at you.

It's called choice and intelligence.

Lets use this exact example:

For the better hears her father call her worthless. Her immediate reaction is to apply this perception to herself, because it is obviously her father, who is one of the most influencial people that will likely be in her life.

As a Christian, she forgives him for his words and understands that he may be troubled and knows that although she is a sinner in God's eyes, being a devoted Christian, she is not worthless because she has achieved much in her attempt to be sin-free. This provides her with peace and confidence in her consumption of her father's words.

As a non-christian, she most definitely is less protected. She could believe his words, go and drink or cut her wrists. Or, she could sit down and "meditate" (or pray) to analyze the situation. She will logically make connections between her father's words and the infinite number of reasons (unrelated to her) that may have spawned such negativies. This, in itself, will levitate almost all the negative reactions she may suffer. But an added bonus is that she will know more about her father and herself, and be more prepared for such assaults in the future. Most importantly, she will be relying on nothing but herself, and will be stronger in doing so. If her dad is at all correct in his words, then she will, during meditation, make conclusions about her own personality that needs to be remedied. This will entice her to formulate a solution to fix the impurities that may contribute to her being worthless.

Both paths lead to a peaceful person, but one is far more achieved and evolutionary and permanent, whereas the other is more like having a friend sitting besides you petting you because you do good things. Doing good things doesn't actually increase your worth... understanding the nature of things does.

Being independant in your beliefs leads to facing reality in a much more realistic manner, which leads one directly to the "truth", confidence, strength, peace, and knowledge.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

72 Posts / 40M
     :   26yrs   :  
for the better

you can NOT determine if someone is a waste or not. b/c whos rules and definitions would you be going by?
youwould be able to prove i have black hair not b/c hair is a physical trait haha but because of color. but you cant determine accuratly if someones a waste, a loser, an idiot. you cant.

my dadsdefination of not being a waste is being busy 24/7
and i am not so to him i am a waste
but my definition of a waste is far from that.


SITE ADMIN
2848 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

Given that specific situation, I sincerely meant and know that he is wrong because no human being is a waste, let alone a waste to their parents. Logically speaking, no one is a waste, and I don't believe for the better is a waste specifically because she seems keen on bettering herself. That puts her light years above the rest in a moment.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

1347 Posts / 42M
     :   23yrs   :  
etherealmeekle

quote:
but you cant determine accuratly if someones a waste, a loser, an idiot. you cant.


If this is true then why does anybody bother to live at all? If we can never be sure if we have worth then what is the point of being here?


"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

christians?
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