christians?

i understand the concept of having a 'guilty mentality'. but it isnt ( obviously ) a constant feeling. how do you escape feeling like a sinner? i try totally eliminating any sort of sin in my life. like, if you were born with a disease, you would know its there, think about it as little as possible and find things that overshadow the negative aspects of your disease.

i believe we are all born sinners, yes i do.
but i dont believe the guilt comes with it. thats what separates the 'good' and 'evil' people. 'good' people are born sinners, feel guilt, and try to change their ways. 'Evil' people are born sinners, and just live their life. they realize their mistakes but do little to better themselves ( spiritually )

hmm.. being completly exempt of sin would take years and years and years. and if you were a true christian, i dont think you'd even accept that phrase of yourself because youd always think of your past sinful actions and feel the tinyest guilt.

Finally, a true honest response.

So, a true Christian will always feel (at a minimum) a little bit of guilt which is used to try to compell them to do good things.

But it still brings about the point that whether it be a little or a lot, Christianity makes you feel, from birth, like you are "diseased" simply for being human.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

i dont view it as a 'diseased' feeling, i just use my "guilt" as a personal reminder that i dont have to be here. for some reason, i was allowed to live. i also dont feel diseased or anything awful because i accept the fact that sin is natural and inborn. i dont try and deny or forget my sins because sometimes backing away from God( sinning, experimenting, living " recklessly " ) has always made the returning to Him even more rewarding and emotional.

i agree it is manageable... When you read what I write it may seem like it's far worse than it may be for you... but given the what has been said, we can conclude that, if even to a small extent, you feel "reminded" and those "reminders" include one or more of feeling like you owe something, like you are a sinner, like you are guilty, or like you did something wrong...

which can all be encompassed into a general sense of guilt which you might not feel all the time, but is there nevertheless, and is instigated by the beliefs held by Christians in that everyone is a born sinner.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

so, in order to truly appreciate or become fulfilled by christianity, one must accept that they use to be a bad person as well as become an even worse person before finally coming to their senses.

"I am Akba-Atatdia"

All people are born sinners and one must acknowledge that sinful nature but one becomes a Christian by accepting that Jesus has made them new (no longer condemned sinners) and that is why this guilt complex is not a driving point to Christianity. In fact if you dwell on your sinfulness then you are actually sinning because you are ignoring the gift that God has given.

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

You're ignoring the point I'm trying to make.

Whether you be a condemned sinner or a passive sinner, you are STILL a sinner. Don't play semantic games when you clearly understand what I'm trying to achieve with my posts.

As a Christian, you are supposed to acknowledge that you are a born sinner, regardless of the degree of guilt or shame you may feel. That is factual, regardless of whether you think that is the "driving" point.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

I do not disagree with that as I said "All people are born sinners and one must acknowledge that sinful nature"

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

Good. So we are in agreement. As a Christian, you must constantly feel guilty, if even to a small degree.

For being human.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

As a Christian one does not constantly have to feel guilt. Often we chose to because we are unwise but that doesn't mean we must do it.

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

we all feel guilt and that isnt necessarily a bad thing. id rather feel supported and fullfilled ( now ) then to live without God. before i didnt feel the guilt that comes with christianity, but i was constantly making excuses for my discusting actions which led to even worse things than a tiny guilt. it was a constant cycle of rationalizing my greed as self improvement and looking out for myself.

i hardly even feel the sense of guilt anymore. i am to a point where i know whats right and any action that would result in guilt afterward, i avoid.

you are viewing feeling guilty as a bad, and maybe avoidable feeling. but like i was saying, you need to go backwards in order to (successfully) spring ahead sometime.

A friend of mine used to be a member of a biker gang. He was involved primarily in drug running but there were many other illegal activities associated with his membership. Anyways the point is that after awhile he became very guilty about the things he was doing. One day he became a Christian because he knew that it would alleviate his guilt now he doesn't have to feel guilty about his past misdeeds.
Guilt brings us to our knees before God but grace puts us back on our feet

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
[  Edited by etherealmeekle at   ]

couldnt have explained it better. a fewmonths ago i was the epitomy of greed and sin. and in embracing christianity, i actually lessened my guilt by opening my eyes owned up to MY actions

Anyways, so, to me, the main thing that creates a character of Christianity is the essence of you feeling guiilty because you are a sinner... and then finding salvation in Jesus's sacrifice and in essence the beliefs of the bible hence Christianity.

So, once you become a Christian, you are psychologically trained not to be able to let it go because then you must face all that apparent guilt alone, let alone possibly realize that you shouldnt feel guilty to begin with.

It's like an abusive father. He beats you and makes you feel like shit, then loves you and tells you he had to beat you because you were bad. So you feel great that he loves you and wants you to be a good person.

The only problem is, you didn't do anything wrong except be born. So it's similar to your dad beating the hell out of you because you carry your mother's genes in you, and that somehow taints you, which makes you unworthy, which justifies you getting your ass kicked.

Whether it be as acknowledged by other members of Christianity or not, the cross is in essence a symbol of debt. It means, Jesus sacrificed himself for you. And you must thank him for it, because you are a sinner.

Catholicism, the religion from which Christianity came from (AFAIK), actually tells you you're not worthy to speak to God. That's why you must confess to a priest.

In logical terms, if you're seeking happiness and enlightenment, then pursue a "hope" religion, as I like to call them. Don't pursue a "guilt" religion. Hope religions in essence state that as a human you should seek to enlighten yourself and realize that the world as a whole is one. It doesn't punish you for not achieving this.

So, if you are picking religions to be interested in, look at them like parents... do you want the one that beats the tard out of you then loves you but beats the tard out of you over and over? Or do you want the supportive parent that never loses hope in you and doesn't demand things, but suggests them.

Most would agree the latter is the better choice, but lots of people who need to live as victims pursue guilt religions. It facilitates some inborn need to be abused.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

arrrr... have you read any of my posts? you have one idea , well the basis idea of christianity. but i dont look at it like you are. you arent feeling guilt all the time. Christianity is not like an abusive father at all!! i cant believe youd even say that. an abusive father is not looking out for your best interests and does not care about your feelings whereas God puts you first.

why do you have such a problem with the process of admitting your sins anyway? its such an amazing feeling to feel clean and pure...
and i also cant believe you think we are 'abused'. wow
i am not a victim. those who take existing for granted and suck up as much garbage and abuse everything and anything with no cosequences are victims of ignorance.