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Can someone disprove this logic?

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1347 Posts / 40M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

quote:
I find it very sad that so many others, perhaps yourself included, have deemed it blashpemy to call ourselves Gods or God, as we are all obviously connected it seems to me a far more likely reality.

We are not God but God can be in us. That means we have God likeness without actually ever being God. And most people will prefer to accept the idea of nothingness because that creates for them the illusion of control

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

3968 Posts / 49M

31yrs

Ironwood

quote:
We are not God but God can be in us.

Blatant an unsubstantiated assumption, or more appropriately, the recycled assumption of others.

quote:
And most people will prefer to accept the idea of nothingness because that creates for them the illusion of control

As opposed to the illusion of the lack of it? Are you making assumptions on our levels of control over ourselves and the universe here much?

Control of what? Perhaps you mean a lack of accountability to a judgemental authority, I can't be certain for you never provide a basis to explain yourself, other than the bible which does not account for this assumption of yours.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

1347 Posts / 40M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

quote:
Blatant an unsubstantiated assumption, or more appropriately, the recycled assumption of others.

Most of the New Testament talks about the Holy Spirit dwelling in us but that does not make us God; the Bible is where I get this information from.

Also in the Bible you will find that man is inherently evil and he seeks to be better than God. This is what I mean when I talk bout control people seem to want to have complete control over everything that they deal with.

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

289 Posts / 44M

20yrs

ekimup

I believe someone asked if God could create something greater than himself. (a boulder he cannot lift)

The answer is no. His abilities..do not surpass..his ability.

In other words-because he is all mighty... He cannot become what he is not.

He couldnt become "not all mightly". It would require a power much greater than his own..which doesnt exist.

given he is allmighty.

"In this world, we are never lacking. Only losing what we have in hope of gaining what we dont."

3968 Posts / 49M

31yrs

Ironwood

quote:
Most of the New Testament talks about the Holy Spirit dwelling in us but that does not make us God; the Bible is where I get this information from.

Also in the Bible you will find that man is inherently evil and he seeks to be better than God. This is what I mean when I talk bout control people seem to want to have complete control over everything that they deal with.

Yes, I know, as I stated.

quote:
the recycled assumption of others.

Why would God create an inherently evil being and punish them for it, sounds like a vindictive asshole to me. Do you feel that an unworthy question?

Is your faith in God or the Bible?

quote:
This is what I mean when I talk bout control people seem to want to have complete control over everything that they deal with.

Everything?

More assumptive overgeneralization.

How about anything, or even just themselves?

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

1347 Posts / 40M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

God didn't create man to be evil but man was corrupted and that corruption infected all humanity. When Adam and Eve had their first son he was born evil because of His parents. God doesn't just punish people He gives them chances to accept Him but should they choose to ignore Him then they have asked for death and God has granted them their desire.

My belief is in God and because of this I believe in the Bible because God had it written.

If man wants control over God isn't that everything? If you have the Supreme Being under control what else do you need?

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

3968 Posts / 49M

31yrs

Ironwood

quote:
God didn't create man to be evil but man was corrupted and that corruption infected all humanity. When Adam and Eve had their first son he was born evil because of His parents.

How fucked in the head does a person have to be to believe a newborn child to be evil?

You like others need to wake up and realize that evil is a creation of God, not man. But that will never happen because the religious faithful don't understand balance. Except of course the Easternized religions which understand exactly that.

How was man corrupted, by creations of God according to the story.

quote:
God doesn't just punish people He gives them chances to accept Him but should they choose to ignore Him then they have asked for death and God has granted them their desire.

Accept him how, he's not a traveling salesmen, though you wouldn't know that from johova's witnesses and the like, and he would be far more effective as one.

Accept him as a creator?

Accept "his" teachings and way of life? This is what you really mean is it not?

This tells me so.

quote:
My belief is in God and because of this I believe in the Bible because God had it written.

What you are so sorely mistaken about is that an existing God does not by any stretch begin to validate the claims of the Bible.

You "believe" in the bible because it is what you were exposed to, what you were told to believe, are afraid of the consequences of not believing.

The reason you manage any sanity and allow yourself to tell yourself and others that you "believe" in the bible is because you are a decent person who sees the good in the bible and runs with that.

The fact that you haven't learned the lesson about not judging others and the relevance of universal balance shows that you have allowed your obvious intelligence to be bullied by your fear.

quote:
If man wants control over God isn't that everything? If you have the Supreme Being under control what else do you need?

Don't you see, claiming to know God or to understand or have an accurate knowledge of his desired ways for us and the universe is exactly that, man's attempt to control God, to label and explain the unexplainable and then claim it as your own to be fought argued to the death and detriment of all.

What man needs after controlling god is purpose, the answer to why. Even after man conquers how, why will still be unknown.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

5 Posts / 39M

23yrs

Gamb1t

quote:
I believe someone asked if God could create something greater than himself. (a boulder he cannot lift)

The answer is no. His abilities..do not surpass..his ability.

In other words-because he is all mighty... He cannot become what he is not.

He couldnt become "not all mightly". It would require a power much greater than his own..which doesnt exist.

given he is allmighty.

So then his abilities are limited? If so then he can't do everything. Then if he can't do everything he isn't almeighty. Also what about my second part of everything being predetermined. If god exisits as he is described by most religions as being all knowing then isn't he just a part of fate?

"We\\\'ll all float on"

772 Posts / 40M

25yrs

heyjme1

If you use the universe as an analogy.
If we wish that time started ans so hence we do have a cause then you need to go back to the question can you create something out of nothing?

Of course you can get away with this by saying everything once existed and so it will add infinitum, i.e. there is never a beginning there is never and end. Otherwise God was a creator. That is the second assumption; but no less valid.

Going back to what we have now; if you think of the universe from the Big Bang and assume it is expanding, if the speed of light is constant and the maximum attainable speed then what exists outside of the zone where this speed of light has got to for the speed of light is finite?

One wa I can conceive this if like there is just energy, everything is really just one, but that space becomes in one-dimension at the speed of light. So, in essence, if we assume (an assumption made for ease of discussion) God is everything then all he is doing is manifesting his own form but with no net energy gain or loss: A possibilty.

""No words""

1347 Posts / 40M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

quote:
How fucked in the head does a person have to be to believe a newborn child to be evil?

I find it interesting that you would assume that a person must be mentally unhealthy in order to maintain a belief that you do not.

quote:
an existing God does not by any stretch begin to validate the claims of the Bible.

This is true however if I chose to believe that I know the God depicted in the Bible then His existence would validate the Bible according to my own beliefs.

quote:
The fact that you haven't learned the lesson about not judging others

If judging was so wrong then why do we still put people in jail? Or do you think that rapists and murderers should walk freely among us in a completely tolerant society?

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

3968 Posts / 49M

31yrs

Ironwood

quote:
I find it interesting that you would assume that a person must be mentally unhealthy in order to maintain a belief that you do not.

I find it rediculous how bad you are at avoiding perfectly good questions regardless of their expression, as well as the consistency in which you take things out of context and consider it making a point.

I didn't know "fucked in the head" was a clinical equivelant to being mentally unhealthy, whereas I understand it to also include simply being manipulated, ignorant, prone to denial, just a dick, and basically any other form of negative mentality or way of arriving there.

quote:
however if I chose to believe that I know the God depicted in the Bible then His existence would validate the Bible according to my own beliefs.

Certainly, making is entirely speculative, biased, and unfit for debate of factuality, like I said.

quote:
If judging was so wrong then why do we still put people in jail? Or do you think that rapists and murderers should walk freely among us in a completely tolerant society?

A physical response to a physical action is natural and not in question, judgement is ideological and conceptual.

A court judgement or ruling is not what we are discussing unless you venture to situations like the Supreme Court ruling that black people are not human.

Evil is a ideological concept relative to limited subjective perspective.

And for your information, rapists and murderers currently and as always do walk the streets as well as fill the posistions of the highest earthbound authority.

Priests, presidents, you name it. When power distributed through a system of corruption awarding the most ruthless, nothing else can be expected.

Let me be clear in reference to this point, I by no means condemn the good and sensible messages of any religion, but it is the corrupted elements of the system that is promoted and protected by those who blindly follow and argue in defense of without appropriately directed scrutiny or even basic awareness of the problem to which I take issue.

If you think the lost and abused innocent turned recreator of his own abuse is that which deserves judgement, then you are sadly mistaken, this is but a byproduct of an existing systematic and sadistic underbelly that is allowed to hide and flourish under the blanket of ignorance and trust in the lies and deciet of the words you so often repeat.

Remember what you said...

quote:
Christianity is much more than most people realise

You need to investigate the history and origins of this, and not just from devoutly faithly (biased) scholars.

And I missed this before so will address it now.

quote:
You do not even believe in the God that I do so how can you say that I am limited from His desires for me?

You know you continually make an ass of yourself when you make assumptions of others.

What I later addressed is that you associate God's desires for you with the writings of the Bible which have no substantial corrolation other than you blindly believing what people tell you to.

I feel very confident in saying that what you "believe" in is an interpretation of another's interpretation of another's interpretation of a story or event that NO ONE knows the true reality of.

If you find that a solid basis for belief, enjoy, but don't be surprised when your opinions are determined to be less than substantial, or not even your own.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

1347 Posts / 40M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

A person would be blind to think that all people are inherently good. Ever notice that it's much easier to make a wrong choice than a right choice? This leads to the idea that man has an inherent evil side and it is not so hard to belief that we all started and still have this evil tendency.

quote:
Certainly, making is entirely speculative, biased, and unfit for debate of factuality, like I said.

Who made you the judge of beliefs?

quote:
If you think the lost and abused innocent turned recreator of his own abuse is that which deserves judgement, then you are sadly mistaken

Your example only works under the assumption that one is ever innocent to begin with.

quote:
You know you continually make an ass of yourself when you make assumptions of others.

You do not belief in the God that I do or we would not be arguing over things like the validity of the Bible.

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

3968 Posts / 49M

31yrs

Ironwood

quote:
A person would be blind to think that all people are inherently good.

Ah, and an all seeing genius would considers them to be inherently evil, is that right?

quote:
Ever notice that it's much easier to make a wrong choice than a right choice?

Oh? How easy is it then for you to choose to believe what you have made the choice to believe? Hmmm?

Look, agreeing with the moral of a story does not validate its claims, just because there is evidence supporting perfectly plausible historical accounts does not in any way validate unsubustantiated and uncorroborated implausible claims.

Wrong and right, like evil and good are again ideological concepts relative to limited subjective perspective and interpretation.

The reason we have the type of court system as we do, since you mention it, is because nothing is black and white, it even serves as the basis for new laws even on old crimes.

This is why we refer to things like abortion with Roe V. Wade, its because we are constantly changing and defining what is right and wrong, good or bad, worthy of punishment, assistance, or whatever.

What I'm getting windy about is that again you don't seem to understand what balance is, why good and bad are relative and what that implies.

Or in bible talk, why god would create and allow such things as evil to exist, especially as just a test for his approval.

What sense does it make that God would test humans? For him to learn something he doesn't know?

Of course not right?

For us to learn something he can't teach?

Not a chance right?

quote:
Who made you the judge of beliefs?

What is the point of your question? How am I judging any beliefs?

quote:
Your example only works under the assumption that one is ever innocent to begin with.

And yours the opposite. What's the point.

quote:
You do not belief in the God that I do or we would not be arguing over things like the validity of the Bible.

No, I'm questioning your belief and why you have chosen to believe it, I need no relevant posistion or belief to do so, but this does not mean I have none.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

1347 Posts / 40M

23yrs

etherealmeekle

quote:
Ah, and an all seeing genius would considers them to be inherently evil, is that right?

No, but one who sees and questions ones motives will find man inherently evil.

quote:
How easy is it then for you to choose to believe what you have made the choice to believe?

My choice was difficult to make because I hated the idea that I was not the king of my castle.

quote:
How am I judging any beliefs?

You called my belief "entirely speculative, biased, and unfit for debate of factuality"

"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"

3968 Posts / 49M

31yrs

Ironwood

quote:
No, but one who sees and questions ones motives will find man inherently evil.

That depends on what evil is. And is it not safer to say that man is both inherently evil and good, or do you discount the good in man entirely?

quote:
My choice was difficult to make because I hated the idea that I was not the king of my castle.

That's a respectable statement in its maturity towards facing your limits, but in terms of how difficult or easy it is to call another master and do their bidding, that's a whole other story.

If you are lucky you don't suffer from a severe dependancy on anything other than that which supports your life of course. But co-dependancy, dependancy, obsessiveness, and general over reliance on even religion can cause many problems personally and to society.

Maybe I should ask you this, how hard would it be to ever accept you are wrong in your faith and beliefs?

No one has a problem till they try to put it down.

quote:
You called my belief "entirely speculative, biased, and unfit for debate of factuality"

Any factual claims unsupported by evidence are speculation, if one chooses to believe something they know they cannot know or prove is a display of bias, and since your beliefs are speculative bias, they are not fit for debate in terms of factuality, whereas they are the definition of ideological and opinion based debate.

Those are all statements, not personal judgements.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

Can someone disprove this logic?


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