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Excerp: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

User Thread
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Excerp: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
(site with free documentaries)

http://www.archive.org/movies/movieslisting-browse.php?collection=indepe
ndent_news


(Direct to free download of 9/11 the road to tyranny)

http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=independent_news
&collectionid=911theRoadtoTyranny


this is a link to independant media documentaries. The very first film blew my mind, in a way that not even the matrix quite holds up to, but close enough in more ways than one that it is actually scary. And I do not say this lightly.

There is a sequal also to it I am about to watch.

Please Please watch this free online documentary when you can, be open minded, see it for the possible propaganda, and the possible truth. I NEED to know the truth to this film, this is micheal moore's movie on crack, and it might be real, this is what I must know, and literally so must you.

I am not promoting the views or claims as I cannot, but only desire for all to share in the reality of the questions, and if nothing else, to just hear what you think.

Though my greatest desire is for anyone and everyone to prove or disprove this movie.

ok, now I've been hearing consitently and enough about conspiracy theories in the US for, well, all my years really, I was raised in the heat of the cold war in my youth.

And the scariest things were scariest because they related tragedies actually happening with scenarios that could make sense, but only if the worst case scenarios are actually true.

I am a person who believes in the possibility of anything, but understand that I can be certain of nothing.

The biggest problem I have with with these conspiracy theories is all the evidence they have supporting it now as a reality. Some of the evidence is claimed to be plain as day in public documentation, I personly am not too sure of where or how to look for these things, but quite frankly at this second I'm a little if not a lot afraid.

Now, I am hoping somewhat desperately that these things that I have just seen more of in depth to a point beyond any other "documetary" as of yet, are not true. But, I don't think any part of my reasonable self can ignore them without verification.

I don't care at the moment if the bible gets verified or not, I want this information verified. If I had bigger balls I would be banging on doors just to find out right now, scouring the internet but at the moment I'm slightly venting and reaching out to like (and differing) and respected minds.

Now, I'm well aware of the realities of propaganda and bull-shit, however, given the amount of possibly even checkable possible true material regardless of any mixed in bias, which I can't be sure of existing or not anyway, thats the beauty of lies and secrecy, no one can know for sure.

BUT!!! Should there be complete fact in any, some, most, or all of this documentary I'm gonna shit, and it is going to be the end of me, and I will die as my head finally comes out of my ass and I breath the air and essence of a reality so disturbing, I will die of shock.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by unknown1 at   ]
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Infowars.com

ok guys, just finished the second part, I'm officially freaked out now.

Uh, I sincerely hope to recieve some feedback from some people who have taken a look at the film, I'm about to explode.

Fear, I keep hearing how fear is used to control people, these films scare me to death, now when the government scares me they ask that I fight terrorism, even if by just going about our daily lives, that the terrorists are using terror to scare us into...... wait, holy shit, what does America say that terrorism is trying to do to us by scaring us, the government tells us not to stop spending money, and even tells us we have more money and gives us some telling us to spend it, I remember them just telling us to just spend it on nothing, not bills, to give back to the economy, not to save or invest.

Anyway, we just aren't supposed to stop, oh ya, we are not supposed to stop listening to the government, or we will be terrorists.

And specifically not to look into these terrorists attacks, or more terrorism will result.

And the question I was asking you and myself before I kind of refigured it out again was what might this film be trying to scare me to do.

And all it is asking is to look up and verify its claims, and then if or when finding them to be true, to do whatever can be done to save America. Mainly organizing and not letting them take our rights away, demonstrate spread the word type stuff, be and activist, not just for a crooked vote. Don't stand for even letting this be a possibility, meaning in case it is true, just in case, we have to look into it. Most evidence is claimed to be hidden in plain sight. InfoWars.com, yes this guys web site, is said to have access to most needed resources, but checking media websites is the same and other way besides finding your public record documents.

Thats the message.

Just look at that compared message.

Government's: There is much to fear, but do nothing, go about your lives, trust the government, do not question or investigate the government or you will aid terrorism.

Conspiracists/Whilsteblowers/Insiders: There is much to fear, but only if you do nothing and go about your daily lives, research information and investigate, it is our job to question the government in the face of such evidence.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.

"ALEX JONES


Featured on "Good Morning America," "20/20 Downtown," "60 Minutes," The Discovery Channel, A&E, Court TV and more, Jones appears on multiple stations across the country, and has been called, "an absolutely riveting television presence," by Patrick Beech of the Austin-American Statesman. Mike Kelley, also of the Austin-American Statesman, said of Mr. Jones, "On television, he exudes so much energy that a viewer might almost expect bits of flesh to start flying from the screen."Alex Jones was recognized as "Best Radio Host" in the 1999 Austin Chronicle Reader's Poll, "Best TV Host" in the 2001 Austin Chronicle Reader's Poll, "Best Mover and Shaker" in the 2002 Austin Chronicle Reader's Poll. His website, www.infowars.com was voted "Best Webzine" in that same poll.


BBC Reporter Greg Palast: " this guy is a national treasure, a light breaking through the electronic Berlin Wall of the US media establishment."

Alex Jones had a prominent role in Richard Linklater's Waking Life and recently appeared on Kevin Nealon's The Conspiracy Zone."

This is the guy behind these films mentioned, thats some pretty good hype, tell me if you think he lives up to it.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 34yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Astarte is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Ooo. Conspiracy theories are hot. So is Waking Life.
You know, regardless of the hideousness of real media,
It's going to continue, you know?

The Free Masons could be running the Earth,
this Bush administration could be nuked
and then all of a sudden this underground government emerges,
that was always there for any sort of national tragedy.
*shrugs*
I'm still gonna walk around in my towel smoking a cig,
I just gave up being freaked out.

But I'll watch it anyway,
spark some amusement or curiosity, if you will.


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"Milk, almonds and pistachios."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I doubt you've seen this much at least not all at once this well linked, I've been frightened in the past by allegations and their possibilities, but I've never had so much evidence, obvious evidence that I can recall hearing a lot of on the news even my self.

People, I HOPE, PLEAD, BEG, AND EVEN DARE you to prove or disprove this, I NEED to know. And IF it is true, then so do you.

This is beyond a hot conspiracy, it may be able to be verified by the average Joe still at this point.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"It's going to continue, you know?"

What will continue?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 34yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Astarte is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Oh, your worst nightmares will continue.
*grins*


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"Milk, almonds and pistachios."
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
im ashamed to say i wasnt even aware of these "drills" going on in the neighborhoods of the US. this is really the only thing that caught my attention in the first film. most of it is long and drawn out... particularly the first fifteen minutes and the other fifteen or twenty minutes of a radio conversation. they had to throw in a Matrix reference (shows up everywhere!) ... once they mentioned the flouride consipacey theory i just busted up laughing.

anyway, there are a few pretty seemingly solid facts in there to think about... but i wont lose sleep over it.

both sides have some truths and many lies.

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
And what do you know of flouride? It took me all of five seconds to find there is great concern in the medical community over flouride, that multiple studies and court cases are on record and in progress.

Included in my brief search was this site

http://www.babyboomers-seniors.com/nov00/senatetestimony.html

This is just one of many others towards the vaccine issue

http://www.organicconsumers.org/school/vaccines090704.cfm

And yes, of course all sides are going to contain lies and or assumptions, that alone is enough to worry me.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Have you ever looked at the de-classified documents of Operation Northwoods?

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

This is our government at work, sleep well.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
So no one here feels any information from this or any of the number of other private citizen investigations, films, lawsuits, and all of their questions and concerns don't merit some serious investigation still?

Just a couple of broad question with tons of speicific questions within are things such as

Why was all evidence of 9/11 allowed to be destroyed?

Why is it we are supposed to trust and believe what the Elected Officials, Military, CIA, and FBI say but when they come out saying the government is doing us wrong, suddenly they have no credibility? But then have all the credibility in the world again when they investigate this mess. Does it matter to anyone that the commission was hand picked by the person who could be guilty?

Why is all other possibly still existing evidence, likes multitudes of testimonies, video surveilance (especially this one and in the case of the ultra suveilance of the Pentagon, did you see the bullshit pictures of that, that's the best the Pentagon has to offer?) And what of the Pentagons missle defense system? Why are all of these videos being suppressed if there is nothing to hide? The only thing in any video in both Oklahoma and 9/11 can even show is that the government is telling the truth or lying. We already have plenty of video of the buildings being hit, but not the Pentagon? With its own super surveylance in place?

Does it baffle anyone else how persistent and clear Bush and Co. were that there was no way of even imagining such a scenario as that of 9/11 even though we were in the middle of an active war game with remote control planes (full size) in the air enacting just that scenario? One of many wargames excersizes over a few years now with just this scenario. But get this, what does it say or mean that the Pilot show to the Lone Gunmen (X-files spin off), aired in like may '01 or something, with a secret government agency purposely trying to fly a remote control air liner into the world trade center for the purpose of creating a pre-text for war? How is this not relevant?

Am I the only one here who is frightened, offended, and angered at being told not to question this event? Of being likened to terrorists or the cause of terrorism for doing so?

Does the fact that we have multiple documeted accounts in our own history, and of the world, of governments planning and or causing just such events on purpose, regardless of reason have any affect on anyone?

Why was the investigation of 9/11 not overly concerned about the source of terrorist funding for the event? I read some of the 9/11 commision report and that part referrs to it as being somewhat inconsequential due to known terrorist resources. The problem with that of course, things like this, if money isn't the number one reason, its always second. And its usually the easiest most littered trail to follow, especially on big money ventures, such as this. It is assinine in this or any other investigation not to have the money as top priority, lunacy, this is part of motive, a big part.

What safeguards or legal measures do we have available against a National Security hush government if they ever do anything wrong, let alone possibly against their own people?

CNN just did a little piece on conspiracy theories and did a poll, of those voting in, 89% thought the government was involved, or knowledgable and complicit.

Why does it still not matter that there are such money and personal ties between our current and former president exist with the friends and family of the terrorists? Let alone how much they all benefited from 9/11. How many promotions came after 9/11, how many people fired? And of those fired or quit, or just found dead, how many were crying out against the government? Too many to ignore, but that's just what happened.

That point is obvious, here I am with my first legitamite questions on the issue some 3 years later. I had a couple of issues and questions before, but between my life at the time and the scare tactics of the media and government, I was successfully distracted and afraid from putting much into my concerns.

Now I have many more, does that mean it's too late?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Here's a site with a good list of some very reasonable questions.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11BasicQuestions.html

These questions aren't just being raised by fanatics or conspiracy nuts.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I'm curious as to whether anyone here thinks our government, or powerful factions within it, are capable of doing any wrong what so ever?

I'm curious as to whom you trust and why? Because the fact of the matter is, there are contradicting stories coming from within our government.

There are and have been for many years many respectable people within our government saying that WE the people (including other members of government) are being lied to. Does that matter to anyone?

These are many of the same people trusted to give the information to our government to be given to us. And when they say that isn't happening, why don't people care?

I know some of the reasons for this.

The point being that there are a lot of real, serious, and obscenely basic questions that don't have adequate or non-contradictory answers.

Offhand I can think of people from the CIA, FBI, a few government posistions, High ranking military officials, doctors of all kinds of disciplines, witnesses, Respected and non respected journalists galore, and apparently scores of citizens, even all of these categories in other countries who have legitimate questions that have not been properly answered. Do you care?

Is it all just a hoax of a conspiracy, is that what history would suggest, let alone the evidence, most of which would be of any use is not allowed to be seen, why is that?

What possible national security issue could be comprimised by viewing video from the pentagon and its neighboring gas stations and what not, as well as the same situation with oklahoma city of which there are apparently 12 confiscated videos from neighboring businesses, and also the recordings of firefighters radio traffic in the towers etc.

If their stories are true, why would they need to hide them at all?

The Pentagon is one of the most highly surveyed areas on the planet for god's sake. There is seemingly no excuse for not presenting any and all evidence of this nature, other than the conspiracy of course.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Here is a basic reason why this investigation is not over and shouldn't be seen as such.

Our government, with all its defense spending (we are either close too, at, or above the spending of all other defense budgets in the world.......... combined) still managed to have 9/11 happen.

The government was either underfunded (as is claimed and has since been again corrected on levels of tripling funds, done twice in past decade), so our government either underfunded, incompetent, frozen in shock for over an hour, OR perhaps badly managed, to the point (as actual evidence would suggest) of not just complicity but in fact purposeful and accountable execution of 9/11, not through a totally corrupt government but through control of key posistions and a series of basic commands and pre-planned activities utilized to confuse and control the situation.

Whistleblowers are being discredited (not on evidenciary basis, but slander and accusations) fired or found dead, and key administrative and instrumental operative posistions are being promoted......... or found dead.

If the administrative branch of government or individuals therein are to be investigated, by law and common sense people affiliated with these individuals can not be the ones to investigate.

But nobody is trying to look into any government failures past saying oops can I have more money please, and people (citizens of America and the World) are being called terrorists or aiders thereof for asking these questions.

Its this simple, if we look into the failures we find something other than failure, if we follow the money, which we spend billions to keep track of through both open and black markets, we find who is actually behind things. These are the main things not adequately addressed by any as of yet "formal" investigation. These are also the areas that have produced internal individuals to come out against the official story behind 9/11 of intelligence failures and failures to follow procedure, both, under the right circumstances are punishable acts, and under these circumstances can be acts of the most severe treason, not to be taken lightly.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
This is a partial list of people desperately trying to inform YOU!

Michael Springman

WHO: Twenty-year State Department veteran, and former head of the visa bureau in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

CLAIM: He was repeatedly overruled by high-level State Department officials to issue visas to bin Laden recruits so they could receive training in the United States. Says this continued at least until the summer of 2001. (Notably, 15 of the 9/11 hijackers first entered the US through Jeddah.) Springman protested.

RESULT: Fired. Springman says he believes that the victims of 9/11 "may have been sacrificed in order to further wider US geopolitical objectives."
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=104&row=1
http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2002/02/521.shtml
http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/dispat...16_springman.rm


Sibel Edmonds

WHO: FBI translator

CLAIM: That a Turkish "spy ring" operated in the translation department with the apparent protection of FBI brass, falsifying intercepts containing explicit, actionable warnings of 9/11. That members of this ring were involved with the subjects of the intercepts. And that high-ranking officials asked her to falsify her translations and bribed her to keep quiet.

RESULT: Fired. After taking concerns to upper management, was dismissed with only one reason offered: "for the convenience of the government." Escorted from building by agents who said "We will be watching you and listening to you. If you dare to consult an attorney who is not approved by the FBI, or if you take this issue outside the FBI to the Senate, the next time I see you, it will be in jail." Told by John Ashcroft that he was invoking "State Secret Privilege and National Security" to keep what she knows from reaching the public.
http://www.thememoryhole.org/spy/edmonds.htm
http://www.observer.com/pages/story.asp?ID=8516
http://tomflocco.com/modules.php?na...=article&sid=50


Robert Wright

WHO: FBI special investigator

CLAIM: That FBI agents assigned to intelligence operations actually protect terrorists from investigation and prosecution. That the FBI shut down his probe into terrorist training camps, and he was removed from a money-laundering case that had a direct link to terrorism. Says the FBI "intentionally and repeatedly thwarted his attempts to launch a more comprehensive investigation to identify and neutralize terrorists."

RESULT: Suspended and ordered to remain silent. Subject of at least three internal FBI investigations. Has written a book that the FBI is not only refusing to allow publication, but is not permitting anyone to even see it.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_2469.shtml
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/37/news-crogan.php


Lt. Col. Steve Butler

WHO: Vice Chancellor for student affairs, Defense Language Institute in Monterey.

CLAIM: In a letter to the editor of a local paper, Butler wrote "Bush knew of the impending attacks on America. He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism. What is...contemptible is the President of the United States not telling the American people what he knows for political gain." During Butler's term as chancellor, 9/11 hijacker Saeed Alghamdi was enrolled at the Defense Language Institute.

RESULT: Disciplined, lost his position and threatened with court martial.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mcherald/3406502.htm
http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/06.06E.butler.bush.htm
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/com/21220698.html


Indira Singh

WHO: "Risk architect" consultant to JP Morgan Chase.

CLAIM: That Ptech, a software company founded by a Saudi financier on the terrorist watch list, had troubling access to sensitive US institutions, which was apparently of no concern to the institutions involved or the FBI. For instance, a "person of interest" from Ptech 'had a team in the basement of the FAA for two years' before 9/11. One of Ptech's projects gained it access to "all information processes and issues that the FAA had with the National Airspace Systems Agency."

RESULT: Warnings went ignored by institutions and the FBI. Told to keep quiet. Subject to surveillance and threats.
http://www.madcowprod.com/index45.html


Colleen Rowley

WHO: FBI field agent, Minnesota office.

CLAIM: That FBI head office perversely thwarted the investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui, throwing up unusual roadblocks which prevented exposing the terrorist use of flight schools in the summer of 2001. That Dave Frasca of the Radical Fundamentalism Unit altered her report, rendering it impossible for the FBI to pursue the matter further.

RESULT: After 9/11, Frasca the senior official who altered Rowley's report and sat on the Minnesota office's request to investigate flight schools, even though he had received a similar request from the Phoenix office is promoted and commended.
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020603/memo.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MOO208B.html


John O'Neil

WHO: Former FBI head of antiterrorism.

CLAIM: That his investigations into al Qaeda in general and the Cole bombing in particular were subverted by senior officials, and the situation had become much worse under Bush. Authorisation to re-enter Yemen to investigate the Cole denied by US Ambassador Barbara Bodine. Quit the FBI under a cloud.

RESULT: Killed in the World Trade Center.
http://www.hereinreality.com/johnoneill.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/

Some more names:

Col. Donn De Grand-Pre

Ramsey Clark - Former US Attorney General

Stephen Pelletie - CIA Analyst

Scott Ritter - Former US Weapons Inspector

Congressman Ron Paul

Congresswoman Cynthia Mckinney

David Schippers - Attorney on Bill Clinton Impeachment and Mob Buster

John Roberts - Unit Chief in FBI self-policing department

Dr. Frederick Whilehurst - FBI Scientist

Ken O'Keefe - Former Marine

Michael Meacher - British Member or Parliament

Mike Ruppert - Ex LA Police Narcotics

Ted Gunderson - retired FBI Special-Agent-In-Charge

These are only some of the names, good thing they are all crackpots right?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
Excerp: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
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