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Excerp: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Page 9

User Thread
 73yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that kathaksung is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The Killer Fires Theory is Pure Fantasy

The simple facts of temperatures:

1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron

~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel

~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)

Diffuse flames burn far cooler.

Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.

The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.

Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/meltdownre.html

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 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
And for nay sayers on K's point, there has been absolutely NO reasonable explanation for the weeks of underground fire and heat. Molten steel which was agreed by all as impossible due to Jet Fuel or any other fuel found in the tower, yet there was indeed molten steel.

Physicist says heat substance felled WTC
Extremely hot fires caused structures to fail, BYU expert says

Suzanne Dean / Deseret Morning News | April 11 2006

EPHRAIM - A Brigham Young University physicist said he now believes an incendiary substance called thermite, bolstered by sulfur, was used to generate exceptionally hot fires at the World Trade Center on 9/11, causing the structural steel to fail and the buildings to collapse.

"It looks like thermite with sulfur added, which really is a very clever idea," Steven Jones, professor of physics at BYU, told a meeting of the Utah Academy of Science, Arts and Letters at Snow College Friday.

The government requires standard explosives to contain tag elements enabling them to be traced back to their manufacturers. But no tags are required in aluminum and iron oxide, the materials used to make thermite, he said. Nor, he said, are tags required in sulfur.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/110406Physicist.htm


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 73yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that kathaksung is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Moussaoui hoax

911 is a hoax. Many people have realized it was a government inside work. The trial of Moussaoui is only a show. To convince the others 911 attack was done by Al Qaida.

Moussaoui plays the same role as Padilla. Padilla is an informant and was arrested for "dirty bomb" case. He was used to prove that Saddam had planned to attack US.

Intelligence used to eliminate anyone who could reveal the truth. In 911 attack, all 19 hijackers died in crash. In London bombing, all four "suicide bombers" were blew to pieces. In Madrid bombing, the "bombers" all died in a police raid. Thus nobody knew the truth ever. But they also want people believe the attack was done by Al Qaida not others. So there are prepared witness: Padilla and Moussaoui. The men worked for intelligence.

Moussaoui was arrested one month earlier before 911 attack. It was said there was plan in his computer but FBI didn't search his computer. FBI said they were afraid to touch the wall of domestic criminal law. It's ridiculous. Moussaoui is a foreigner. He fits for FISA, even a nonprofessional knows. FBI is notorious for abusing their power, do you believe they won't search a detaineer's computer?

But Moussaoui was designated for being a witness of 911. That's why he was arrested, with obvious evidence to be a witness. But at the same time FBI said they didn't search the evidence. Because otherwise the 911 attack couldn't go true. And D.O.J. couldn't get the Patriout Act, and the Inside group couldn't have the war in Mid-east.

There was another big flaw there. One principle for the secret work, either for a spy, an intelligence job, or for a terrorist, is that if one of them was arrested, the plan would be cancelled immediately and the team would withdraw. Because it was assumed the plan has been revealed. How could the other hijakers behaved like nothing happened. They going on a normal life until 911, with one of them arrested for weeks. Or do they know FBI won't search their fellow's computer?

Another big joke was when the hijacker going for a top secret job, would they bring a plan with them? It could be used only for evidence. So much for Moussaoui's case.

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 68yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
The Killer Fires Theory is Pure Fantasy

The simple facts of temperatures:

1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron

~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel

~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
And then ya add that all the newer steel building I'ave worked on where blown with insulation.
This would make them hard to cut with a oxygen/actylene blow torch!
But in fact, they were designed to fall down (inward) opposed to fallin on other buildings?

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
 73yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that kathaksung is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Stanley Hilton, a government insider, Bob Dole's former chief of staff, political scientist, lawyer, represents 400 plus plaintiffs - most of them victims of 9/11 He had an interview with Alex Jones in which he talked about some of the 911 hijackers were undercover agents or informants of CIA and FBI. There were drills on that day. These double agents became scapegoats of a plot like what happened later in London bombings.

Quote, "SH: My office was broken into about 6 months ago. The file cabinets - it was obvious they had been rifled through. Files were stolen. Files dealing with this particular case and particularly with the documents I had regarding the fact that the - some of these hijackers, at least some of them were on the payroll of the U.S. government as undercover FBI, CIA, double agents. They are spying on Arab groups in the U.S. And, in effect, all this led up to the effect that al Qaeda is a creation of the George Bush administration, basically. That the entity that he called al Qaeda is directly linked to George Bush. And all this stuff was stolen.

SH: We have evidence both documentary as well as witness sworn statements from undercover former FBI agents, FBI informants, etc., that other officials in the Pentagon and the military and the Air Force that deal with the fact that there were many drills, many rehearsals for 9/11 before it happened. Bush had seen this simulated on TV many times. He blurted this out at a press conference in California a few months after 9/11 where he said he had, quote, seen the first plane hit the first building on the video. And that's not possible because there was no official video of that. There was one of the second plane not the first one. He had seen the first one. We do have some incriminating documents that Bush personally ordered 9/11 events. It was well planned. A FEMA official has admitted on tape that he was there the night before - September 10th, that is

AJ: And now Mayor Giuliani, a few months ago in the 911 Commission, admitted that - Tripod II. They had their whole command post already moved out of Building 7. Now, this is very, very important. This is a key area of this whole event. You said months before it came out on the CIA's own website and the Associated Press, you said I deposed people. They said there were drills that morning and exactly what happened, happening - that was the smoke-screen for the stand-down. And then to get out ahead of it, the CIA comes out and said yeah we were running a drill that morning. Now, we've learned that five, possibly six, were confirmed. Five of these - one drill with the exact same thing happening that actually happened, at the exact same time in the morning. That's why NORAD stood down with 24 different blips on the screen. You've said this. You brought this up first. Now, I know you can't get too much into detail but can you tell us how you learned of this?

SH: I have interviewed individuals in NORAD and the Air Force. I personally toured NORAD many years ago around the time that I worked for Dole. I'm very familiar with the operations at Cheyenne Mountain at Colorado Springs, where NORAD is. Individuals that work in NORAD as well as the Air Force have stated this, off the record, but the point is, yes, this was not just five drills but at least 35 drills over at least two months before September 11th. Everything was planned, the exact location

AJ: But five drills that day.

SH: That day, that day, and Bush thought it was a drill. That's the only explanation for why he appeared nonchalant

AJ: We also had NORAD officers and civilian air traffic controllers going, "Is this part of the exercise? Is this a drill?"

SH: Yes.

SH: That's right. That's exactly what I said long before it became public. I've known about this since earlier in March of '03, as I stated before. This was all planned. This was a government-ordered operation. Bush personally signed the order. He personally authorized the attacks. He is guilty of treason and mass murder. And now, obstruction of justice by attempting to use a federal judge and FBI agents to inhibit a legitimate civil lawsuit in this country, in federal court. Even a chief judge in this court tried to harass and threaten me personally for representing legitimate plaintiffs. And they got Clinton for allegedly lying under oath about Paula Jones and now - look what's happening now. And Ken Starr used to be across from me in Duke Law School in the early `70s and its interesting that he got away with trying to get Clinton impeached, so we have a far worse criminal sitting in the oval office today - somebody guilty of mass murder as well as obstruction of justice.

AJ: Stanley Hilton will be with us for another 15 or 16 minutes. Then he's got to go into court. Bob Dole's former chief of staff, political scientist, lawyer, represents 400 plus plaintiffs - most of them victims of 9/11. When I was in New York last week, everybody I was talking to, I mean 90 plus percent of them at ground zero - "I had family, I worked in the buildings, my son's a Navy Seal - he called the night before and said don't go to work." You know, all of this, and then now they never had any idea - and it turns out they had all these drills - and one drill of hijacked jets flying into the World Trade Center and Pentagon at 8:30 in the morning.

These planes were controlled by remote control, as I stated previously a year and a half ago, there's a system called Cyclops. There is a computer chip in the nose of the plane and it enables the ground control, the military ground control, to disable the pilot's control of the plane and to control it and to fly it directly into those towers. That's what happened. It's also a technology used on what's called the Global Hawk, which is an aircraft drone - a remote- controlled aircraft.

You've got these CIA agents, these Arabs, who were trained at U.S. military bases, Pensacola Naval Air Station - mainstream media, out creating their legends for this background. They're on board the aircraft. My military sources say nerve gas kills everybody on board the plane - nerve gas packets. Then they fly the planes into buildings. From your inside sources, is that accurate?

SH: It's one of the things that we are looking into - that nerve gas or something else disabled people. It's possible. I can't say for sure to be honest with you

AJ: All you know is they were government agents and they were on board and the planes were remote controlled.

SH: Yeah, it was basically a smokescreen. I mean, the events of the hijackings, how someone snuck in those cutters, it was a plant. It was like a classic decoy. I've got some military background. And it's called decoy. It's a decoy operation. You make the people focus on the decoy to avoid looking at the real criminals. So they are focusing on these so-called nineteen hijackers and saying, "Oh, it must have been these Arabs. When, in fact, the guilty person is at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue - sitting in the oval office. That's the guilty person. That's the one who authorized it. There is only one man who could have authorized this operation and that's Bush. And anyone at NORAD will tell you as I have been told personally at NORAD in the war control room, there is only one man who has the power to do this kind of thing and that's Bush. Even though many believe he's a puppet. And I think in many ways he is. The fact of the matter is where was [ ] Cheney, Rumsfeld and these other traitors. The fact is Bush personally ordered and he's guilty and liable and he's going to be re-elected apparently because the media's asleep and [garbled] for Bush.

AJ: Well, the media is owned by the same military industrial complex that carried out the attacks.

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/091204hilton.htm

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 73yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that kathaksung is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Moussaoui hoax (2)

Another flaw of Moussaoui case is that he probably never had the experience to fly a plane, let alone a Boeing.

He was said to attending a flying school intending to learn to pilot a Boeing plane. Think with your brain, what kind of qualification for a pilot of Boeing? The students should have basic flying knowledgement. They should have experience to fly other low ranking air planes. (Maybe hundreds of hours)Even such people who past the Boeing training course, they would practise as assistant for hundreds hours before they can handle a real Boeing. Flying a Boeing just like to study in a college, you have to have the experience of Primary and high school.

Will the flight school take whomever who want to learn flying a Boeing? Do these school train Boeing pilot without any qualification? Do you think the pilots of airline were trained by such kind of flying school?

Of course, if you think in a normal way, then the Moussaoui case and 911 event became a hoax. That's why they focused on 911 victims. Let the jury hear Flight 93 recording, let former N.Y. Mayor Guiliani to testify, show you the tape of WTC collapsing ..... all purposed to flame an emotional hatred, none can prove Moussaoui a member of 911 perpetrators.

The case is so fragile, (they avoid to talk about it). They prosecute one who have no experience to fly a Boeing plane to hit the White House by a Boeing plane. That makes US court a big joke. When they want a war, they said there was WMD. When they want a scapegoat for 911, they gave you a psycho who had no experience to fly Boeing. Yet so many people believe it.

Is it a chaotic show?

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 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
How many of you in this past week, since the new release of nearly identical footage of the Pentagon strike, have heard pundits, commentators etc. proclaim it as definitive evidence to refute ALL 9/11 conspiracy theories? Why now? Why such crappy footage?

There are approximately 80+ cameras supposed to have recorded that attack. Including civilian businesses and highway security tapes which of course were confiscated by the FBI, within minutes, under order of no discussion of witnessed footage.

But that's what they provide? And its definitive? And refutes claims that have nothing to do with the Pentagon?

I've been listening to people who were invited as guests onto FOX and CNN, as they have been in the past, to comment on this new footage. The channels were apparently also asking their stance on Charlie Sheen's comments. When these guests said they supported Charlie and believed that the Government was withholding information about 9/11, their guest spots were cancelled.

These guests who have expressed these events, again these stations specifically asking for people to endorse Pentagon footage and to discredit Charlie Sheen and all 9/11 conspiracy theories, include William Rodriguez, the last living survivor pulled from the WTC, interveiwed many times, Philip J. Berg, lawyer and government official representing 9/11 families against the government, and others.

Your fair and balanced news stations are expressing a clear agenda in response to the 9/11 truth movement, which is on fire.

It takes two seconds to watch the footage and determine that there is nothing clear nor definitve about it. So why do NEWS stations claim with all authority the exact opposite? Because its not news, its propaganda, and its nowhere near fair or balanced.

You can thank the internet for even knowing that other views and information exist on any number of important subjects, but if you want it to stay that way you might want to hurry and wake up.

Newspapers and now even televised news stations have had their ratings and viewership drop in giant numbers. Alternative news, primarily found on the internet (and books) is skyrocketing.

There are people in places of great power losing money and influence/power. Do you think that is going to last? Seriously, do you?

There is actual legislation in place and being drafted to destroy the internet as we know it. Spyware, pop ups, and viruses, etc. will only increase, and the only way to save us will be the Internet 2. A government and corporate aka fascist controlled internet. It will be censored and filled with propaganda and ads. Welcome to China.

Captain Cynic, will probably cease to exist. You may even be able to watch the evolution of this internet through Myspace. Now that it is owned by Rupert Murdock, owner of FOX News. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 73yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that kathaksung is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Moussaoui hoax (3)

The background why Moussaoui is put on court at this time. It's when Charlie Sheen had his opinion that 911 is likely an inside job and other experts in succession suggest that 911 was manipulated by this administration as another Pearl Harbor. Bush government is in a trough of untrustworthy. They need help. So they push out Moussaoui.

Moussaoui's "I am Al Qaida." became the big title of media. He admitted his mission was to fly the fifth plane to hit the White House. That's what government wants. How convenient they got the evidence to prove it's an Al Qaida's work not their's.

But question comes again. How could Moussaoui hijack a plane by himself? How could he control the passengers while flying a plane? Where is other team member? So now government must find some other puppets and create some stories to support this 5th plane's story.

What a circus. Still we saw government releasing the conversation between the WTC victim and 911 emergence dispatcher, or let out a new film of "flight 93". At this time, it was used as a tool of psychological influence. You can see how government control public's mind if you stand at a higher level and watch over these news.

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 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Bombs in buildings on 9/11, oh but I heard that is absurd. Fuck you NY Firefighters, what do you know, bunch of conspiracy nuts. Where are Penn and Teller to call them assholes when you need them right?
This video appears to have been removed


This video appears to have been removed



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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Zogby Poll: Over 70 Million American Adults Support New 9/11 Investigation

PRWEB | May 23 2006

Although the Bush administration continues to exploit September 11 to justify domestic spying, unprecedented spending and a permanent state of war, a new Zogby poll reveals that less than half of the American public trusts the official 9/11 story or believes the attacks were adequately investigated.

911Truth.org Urges 2006 Reform Candidates to Recognize a Powerful New Constituency

(For more info. )
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/230506Zogby.htm

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that gari is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Even if you know the truth there is nothing you can do about it. I think the best thing you can do is move to some country far away from media attention.

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 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Even if you know the truth there is nothing you can do about it. I think the best thing you can do is move to some country far away from media attention.


How constructive. And a bunch of hooey. Leaving the country doesn't matter, the people perpetrating the death of America are globalists. Unless you pick the right place, you are bound to find yourself in a worse situation faster.

America is only a focus point here due to 9/11 and many of the posters being American.

Being a pussy is not a solution. Educating the masses and coming together is.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 73yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that kathaksung is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Moussaoui hoax (4)

FBI awards man who blocked MN investigation

Quote, " FBI performs a nasty little sequel to whistle-blower saga
Doug Grow Star Tribune Published Dec. 22, 2002

The Star Tribune's Greg Gordon reported last week that at a quiet little ceremony earlier this month, Marion (Spike) Bowman was one of nine people in the bureau to receive an award for "exceptional performance." The award carries with it a cash bonus of 20 to 35 percent of the recipient's salary and a framed certificate signed by the president.

What does this have to do with Rowley?
Bowman heads the FBI's National Security Law Unit. That's the unit that blocked Minneapolis agents from pursuing their suspicions about Moussaoui.

There were no FBI honors for the Minneapolis office. There was a big honor for the lead antagonist of the Minneapolis office."

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3547688.html

When the low ranking FBI agent warned his supervisors more than 70 times that Moussaoui was a terrorist and might hijack a plane, he got no reward for his good work.

But the high ranking officer got a reward after that. What achievement has he got that could overcome the big mistake (or more accurately, a criminal neglegence) that he had blocked the important discovery his staff has made?

That's why I say Moussaoui was a prepared witness by inside group. Low ranking FBI agent did their job to report it. The high ranking officials knew what was it. It was too early to declair Moussaoui was a potential hijacker. They must block it otherwise there would be no 911, and the war the inside group wanted couldn't go true. Those who blocked the revelation got a reward.

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 73yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that kathaksung is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The actual events were created hoax. Cheney knew it before news reported it. All this was pre-planned.

Quote, "Flight 93: The New Media Campaign
Sat Apr 15, 2006 00:06
64.140.158.37
Flight 93: The New Media Campaign

by Russell Pickering
russellpickering@bresnan.net

Why has Flight 93 suddenly taken center stage? Plain and simple it is the last resort of the perpetrators to hide. As 9/11 Truth groups successfully move forward with the goal of awakening Americans to the facts of the four events that occurred that day, only one is in a remote, obscure field. Only one was unavailable for real inspection (even in photos) until the trial. Only one is embedded in a legend of heroism.

Is there any evidence that the story of heroism was a pre-planned cover story? Yes there is. In an interview with CNN's John King in the vice president's office on September 11, 2002 Cheney was reported to have made a very interesting statement.

"Word came that Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania. Aides frantically called the White House to find out whether a military jet had shot it down.

"'The vice president was a little bit ahead of us,' said Eric Edelman, Cheney's national security advisor. 'He said sort of softly and to nobody in particular, 'I think an act of heroism just took place on that plane.'" (1)

In the context of having just given shoot down orders they received word that Flight 93 had crashed. They had no idea why as evidenced by the fact they were trying to determine if a military jet had shot it down. But Cheney in an underground bunker with confusion raging everywhere and no knowledge beyond what his aides were telling him says, "I think an act of heroism just took place on that plane."? Wait a second.....what could he have possibly based that statement on?

Even his aide noticed Cheney was, "a little bit ahead of us". I would go so far as to say he was a lot ahead of everybody. There was absolutely no possible way that Cheney was aware of the alleged cell phone calls and most certainly he had not heard the cockpit voice recorder. Where did he get his idea from?

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?
disc=149495;article=100501;title=APFN

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 73yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that kathaksung is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Government released a cockpit tape. It could be a fake from the "disinformation strategy office" of intelligence. As cheap as Bin Laden's tape and Nick Berg's beheading tape. To produce one like that is as easy as to produce a film "Flight 93".

Appeals to Fabricated Evidence

The most stunning example of government mendacity in the Moussaoui trial, Fetzer explains, came with the inflammatory recordings, allegedly the last moments of Flight 93, which went down in Pennsylvania. "Not only should they not have been admitted into evidence," he said, "but Allen Green has noted that much of the conversation is from the passenger cabin -- which would not have been picked up in by the cockpit voice recorder, even through an open door. Yet the cockpit door was supposed to be closed before it was finally broken open using a drink cart."

Another blunder was noted by a Muslim member of S9/11T. The last words of the "hijackers" on the tape are "Allah is great! (Allahu akbar!". Muhammad Columbo says, "The last words of a Muslim cannot be these! They are used in the call to prayer, or in an attack at war. On the moment of death, a Muslim must confirm that "There is but one God, Allah, and that Mohammed is his prophet!" The government's own evidence proves either the tapes or the Muslims are fake.

Fetzer has also been struck by the use of phrases that appear to come from Hollywood scripts. "It's not enough that he talks about "making his day" as though he were a fan of Dirty Harry, but he also parodies "Born in the USA" with his rendition of "Burn in the USA" and has described his trial as a 'cyberlynching'. We are so used to movies that we may not notice this is supposed to be real life, where this trial appears to be following a script.

Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Prof. James Fetzer
218-726-7269

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=100677;title=A
PFN

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Excerp: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Page 9
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