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Excerp: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Page 2

User Thread
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
George W. Bush's brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family.

On the very day of the tragic space shuttle crash, the government appointed an independent investigative panel, and rightly so. Why didn't it do the same on Sept. 12, 2001?

Margie Burns, a teacher and writer, lives in Cheverly, Maryland.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
FTW Exclusive Breaking News

MARVIN BUSH EMPLOYEE'S MYSTERIOUS DEATH Connections to 9/11?

Washington Post Sits on Story for a Week

by Wayne Madsen

(Special to From The Wilderness)

Copyright 2004, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only.

October 10 , 2003, 1200 PDT, (FTW) -- WASHINGTON, At around 9 PM on September 29, Fairfax County, Virginia police responded to a 911 call describing an accident. However, they soon discovered they were not dealing with a routine emergency but the mysterious death of an employee of the 47-year old brother of President George W. Bush, venture capitalist Marvin Bush. Sixty-two year old Bertha Champagne, described as a long time "baby sitter" for Marvin and Margaret Bush's two children, son Walker, 13, and daughter Marshall, 17, was found crushed to death by her own vehicle in a driveway in front of the Bush family home in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County. Champagne reportedly lived at the Bush family home.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Some more suspicious events days before 9/11

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/lehrman.htm

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I've often been curious of the insurance situation on the towers, I'm interested in finding if this fellow has any interesting, associations or business partners like so many others in this story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3089447.stm

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I've been looking into some more of this of course, and I'm finding some crazy shit coming from supposed PhD's and multi masters etc. Major scientist and bioweapon developers with crazy stories, and a surprisingly large and long period of sudden deaths and murders such people.

From the days of MKultra to god knows what now. It's only government attempts for mind control, nothing serious. Its in cia online sites. But they are all crackpots too remember.

Oh, only since the inception of the known civilized world has man been fighting the corruption of those in power to the point where we would have a harder time proving any not to have been involved in or fighting some conspiracy, but thats just convient coincidence for conspiracy theorists to fall back on. And I guess thats as good a reason as any to let it stay that way, right?

What would I like to see?

I would love a national holiday where all locals and military peacefully invade the offices and files of all public offices (even the secret ones, however they managed that)like we should be able to (especially if they say they can), get copies of everything set up 24/7 direct surveylance on all government, banking, and security firms and establishments while we investigate all data, nonstop on live television with mandatory copies made and sent to all members of the public.

I would be more than happy for a less invasive measures, but I'm afraid this is a matter of the highest level of national security and delayed litigations are unnacceptable, this is a national emergency, all politicians, and management levels of banks and intelligence service surrender immediately, we will not tolerate civil disobedience.

We are the government, any law they make, we can enforce.

This is true for now, there is a clause in one of the patriot or victory acts allowing them to STRIP CITIZENSHIP !!! This is not a drill. Delayed warrants, illegal search and seize, indefinite holdings without representation, making dissention illegal, declarations of silence through national security.

Please enjoy your short stay at Club FEMA, chemical showers are for sanitization only, please step forward......


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
ok, something that is really starting to get to me - i have been looking all over the place for shots of the plane crashing in to the WTC and seriously have not been able to see passenger windows on any of the shots of the plane. its such a little piece to the whole scheme... and yet it is so significant.

if anyone else takes this stuff as seriously as i do, i challenge you to find footage or even a simple screen shot of that plane having passenger windows.

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
http://www.911review.org/Wiki/CanadasPatriotAct3.shtml

This is for our canadian friends here. Patriot acts for everybody, yay!

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
In terms of available visual evidence of highly suspect natures, I think the building collapses offer the most important still available information.

No steel building has apparently EVER fallen do to structure fire, the towers were specifically designed to withstand at least one, and possibly multiple airline strikes.

They had specific fire proofing, and jet fuel does not burn at high enough temperature to melt steel, period.

Buildings do not collapse at near free fall speeds, unless by use of demolitions.

Giant dust clouds (to a degree of a pyroclastic flow) are not caused by basic stucture collapses, this is caused by carefully placed high explosives with so much force that key structure points are reduced to a fine powder.

Two tower over a hundred stories a piece should not be a pile of rubble within ten seconds of a collapse for any reason other than explosives, its that simple.

I'm pretty sure I've heard of architects fined and jailed for discrepancies in design that would not even fail like the towers did. (it was a discovery channel thing on a race for the tallest building or another such thing)


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
And just a question, why would any pentagon and private or public surveylance tapes be confiscated as matters of national security, while footage of the towers is still available today? Aren't they part of the same national security event, falling under the same guidelines?

Where is the sense in this?


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I wish I knew how to get everyone interested in this investigation.

You don't even have to take it serious, just look into it.

Be it to disprove or prove, but just to find answers, and if necessary make changes.

And if you find some very valid questions but either no answers, conflicting answers, or flat out rediculous ones, feel free to be curious as to why you are having a hard time getting answers.

Get your friends and family curious, its not disrepsectful or unpatriotic, while claims to the contrary actually seem to be just that, as well as reason to look harder.

Look at it this way, if even half of the stuff being asked turns out to be true, then we are in the middle of one of the greatest and most important moments in ALL of world history, literally.

Or we can continue being sheeple.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
exactly, i have all the same questions you do... i just dont allow myself to lose sleep over any of it. for one its not healthy and for another, i still cant help but think that our government keeps things from us for very good reasons. maybe thats my subconscience buying in to propaganda, but id like to think im more aware of my surroundings than that.

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I'm not losing sleep, and the only offhand thing I can think of needed to be kept secret is identities of covert operatives, not policy or public money affairs, thats retarded. The same with surveylance videos and any other evidence of crime these specific crime scenes.

A secret government is not a good solution, its been proven time and time again.

3 main tools of a fascist are, secrecy, propaganda, and martial law.

2 of those are locked in, the 3 is well under way.

They are teaching us that everyone needs to be watched and investigated.......except them.

"i just dont allow myself to lose sleep over any of it. for one its not healthy"

You know whats not healthy, ignorance, denial, inaction and a blank check for the benefit of the doubt in times of crisis.

Why would you believe a press conference giving CIA or FBI intelligence statements but not the actuall agents when they tell you something is wrong?

If no one is allowed to view any evidence of significance, then no true determination can be made. The 9/11 commission didn't have access to sensitive information, it was blacked out for them too, its a total sham.

Much important evidence is out there but investigations are not, not well funded ones with access to info.

We the people have the right to know things, all this talk about national security, we are the nation, we want to secure ourselves and we have the right to, no matter what laws they try to pass, we have the right to overthrow our government if needed, which I'm guessing would include bypassing or repealing laws for information access without revolt.

I don't want violence, and I don't want someone I have no reason to trust ( and even reason not to) telling me I have to just trust them.

I would be more than happy to know I can trust our government, but this is misleading, we are the government, we are the final set of checks and balances is all else fails, everything our elected officials do to us or others on our behalf is our right to know.

But history, of both america and the world, shows we don't have this luxury.

"but id like to think im more aware of my surroundings than that."

Why is that, where do you get all of your awareness? I know I don't have very good access to any information of any importance, even when I was a freakin spy ( of a mundane sort) for the military I had no access to any important information.

Compartmentalization is the other key, no one knows everything, and it works well at keeping people ignorant and trusting (or at least compliant).

The main people with access to important info and who weren't lead management, for the most part, before or during 9/11 are the types of people coming out. Field operatives, translators, visa distributers, security systems personnel, terrorist investigators etc.

Rampant gag orders in the name of national security, while lawsuits are filed both externally and internally against the government on this issue, come on, something is wrong. Even if we just have super bad management and systems in place.

None of which we can afford to assume and desist questioning of.

Structures will eventually fall without proper maintanence and testing of structural integrity. This is the job of questions, to find weaknesses and problems, because you can't fix something if your not allowed to see how or where it is broken or damaged.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I personally have just been in a better posistion to check into some of these things, in terms of time and stuff.

And after having done so for a little while now, I feel it safe to say that it is far more unhealthy to ignore this than to look into it.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Here is a relevant point that deserves some time to sink in. When you think of such things as the Patriot Acts and Victory Acts, you need to be aware of the worst case scenario portions, it makes for the best reading anyway, but there is a point.

This point is that those worse case scenarios, Martial Law etc. are able to be enacted at any time during war time, and we are in the midst of a what has been estimated to be as much as a hundred year war, generations. So at this point it really is as they have said, not a matter of if but when.

They could probably legally declare Martial Law today, but it would be far more difficult than if say one more really bad thing should happen.

But not to worry, this is only a real problem if either 1. The conspiracy ends up being true, or 2. Their story is correct and they are just incompetent.

The funny thing is, well, the not so funny thing is that most people if asked would actually prefer or promote #2 on the good word of the government, but if asked if they trusted a politician, lawyer, or mainstream media would say no .

It gets even more weird when asked if they believe a whistleblower who perhaps blatantly confesses or accuses a politician etc. they might say something like, well, wouldn't surprise me but I doubt it.

Oh, and if you are looking just for our good people still in government to save us, well many have tried speaking up but get labled like anyone else, they managed to get the patriot act passed without being allowed to read it first, that's a problem, as a couple agreed and said so. Amendments ended up being made but then more acts and provision followed re-establishing them.

These people are corporate criminals at the very least, have family history and even current history of business associations with terrorist connected people and organizastions.

The only reason we aren't still the laughing stock of the world for such blatant hypocrisy and abuse, is because the world is terrified of us now.

I bet if you did a world survey and asked what people feared more, A. Terrorism B. US C. UN, it would probably end up D. all of the above because they are all connected by criminals within.

Terrorism and the war on it is big business people, and right now the people in our highest posistions are PROFITTING to outrageous degrees from it. But I'm sure even if their being audited wasn't deemed a matter of national security, that it would be safely laundered by the experts.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
See, I wouldn't even be worried if I knew that things were gonna end up like the matrix or something, thats a far better fate than the things I tend to see in our history.

I'm not too worried about this physical existance, though I would like to see peace and enjoy learning and discovering all the wonderful mysteries of life and existance, but I do fear pain and torture in this life ( of myself AND others ), and for some reason that is exactly what corrupt people in power seem most likely to bring about.

How do we fight corruption? We don't allow the circumstances for it for one, a secret government is apparently still a guantee for abuse of power, this should surprise no one. We don't need to know agents names, but we do need to know tactics and actions of our government, period. Or at least those who want to know should be allowed.

And untill we have a reliable source of detecting lies, we need to have a system that actually encourages honesty, openness, trust, and good for the people practices.

But I'm not seeing quite as much of that except by those who already struggle, and those who still know what its like to struggle and try to help but aren't in a good enough posistion to do so very effectively.

If we should have to trust them, then they should have to trust us. They need supervision just as much as anybody else.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
Excerp: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Page 2
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