why is suicide frowned on???

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Actually, suicide does come easy. It is the easy way out of a situation. Instead of trying to work through it, you just give that. I don't call that brave, actually I find that cowardly.

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"Fasion is a form of ungliness so intollerable, it must be changed every six months -Oscar wylde"

That's right, the fear of doing it may stop someone, but your still missing the whole of what I was trying to say.

Instead of trying to work through it, you just give that. I don't call that brave, actually I find that cowardly.

I'm sorry, but I don't consider someone brave just because they don't mind pain. Brave is when you risk yourself in hopes to better the world in some way. By the way you are saying it, someone who likes to cut themself is "brave" because they can take, and sometimes enjoy, the pain.

"My drum skills > Your drum skills"

Decius - i see the error of my thinking in my last post. it is very wrong to try and compare my own life to others, i do realize that. and i am very fortunate for everything i have, a roof, a family, 2-3 meals a day... im a lot better off than a lot of people in this world.

people who commit suicide (in the non war scenario) should in no way be considered "brave" but i do follow how a person with the prospect of either an afterlife *heaven* or "nothingness" would (at times) feel like dieing is a much better option than living. still, choosing the "better" option for yourself, pertaining to almost anything is a selfish act. it is human nature to be selfish, suicide is simply another act of selfishness... in no way is it a "brave" thing.

oh and lastly, it really is no ones business if a person chooses to commit suicide, they clearly had their reasons. i wouldnt be one to say or think "oh so and so is weak and pathetic, they just couldnt hack it in the real world blah blah blah" all im trying to say is that it is selfish, just like everything else that people do. and to me being selfish is not a bad thing, its just how we are.

"I am Akba-Atatdia"

Think about this.
who's gonna clean up the blood on the wall where you shot yourself? your mother? father? wife? husband? sister? brother? CHILDERN?
who's gonna cut you down from the fan where you hung yourself?
who's gonna drag you out of the water where you drowned your self?
who's gonna take your blood stained clothes from where you drove your self into wall, tree, whatever?
your Mother, Father, sister, brother, wife, husband, bf/gf, friend, kids????? huh? think about that!
take the person you most care about/love. how would you feel if they killed them selves because they thought no one cared about them. you never told them how much you appericatied them, loved them, cared about them....
how would you feel?
what if YOU were the FIRST PERSON TO FIND THEM DEAD?
that's what happened to my dad.
he found HIS MOTHER DEAD!!! she took a whole bottle of sleeping pills. he was 15. my age. he was with his best friend. (still his best friend today.) so ANOTHER 15 yr old had to see a dead woman. who he knew. pretty scary. he's 54 today. (today's my dad's b-day) he still has nightmares about that!! he's always telling me, "don't EVER claim suicide!!" can't say i don't think about it though. but, things always get better.

another thing to think about. what if you attempted suicide, but it didn't work and you still lived but had permente damage? what if you shot your self, but you still lived but you turned into a vegtable? or some other brain damage?
what if you tried to kill yourself by driing into a wall but a innocent child (or wo/men) walked out in front of you and you killed them? but you still lived?
what if you jumped off a bridge but landed on sharp rocks where they had to amputate your arm, leg, whatever because it was so screwed up and infected? and you still lived?

think about that

"Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, and in purity"-1 Timothy 4:12"

yes exactly, and thats only a small portion of the things people should think about!

"I am Akba-Atatdia"

I think a lot of you guys miss the boat completely when it comes to suicide. Most likely because you've never really been educated about it, or you've never been seriously suicidal yourselves.

For one thing, you need to realize that studies show that about 90% of people who commit suicide, have some kind of mental illness. (Most often, mood disorders, like Clinical or Manic Depression.) This means that most of the people who kill themselves, are experiencing life in a way that you can't imagine. If you've ever had Depression, you'd know that it's a lot worse than any kind of "normal" sadness that the rest of the population would experience. So, you can't really judge the kind of emotional pain that someone has been experiencing...

As to the numerous comments people have made about being selfish...for one thing, most suicidal people have a constricted way of thinking. This will often (but not always) lead them to honestly believe things that aren't necessarily true. A lot of times, they will honestly believe that the people close to them are just burdened with them while they are alive, and that those loved ones will be better off once they're dead.

On another level, maybe they are thinking of themselves when they decide to kill themselves. Maybe they do finally want to end the pain and suffering that they've been going through. So I suppose, because they are acting in their own interest, that's considered selfish. But in that definition, most things that people do are selfish! In fact, if you think it's selfish for a loved one to kill themself, *because* it'll hurt the people he/she leaves behind, that's selfish too...you're putting your comfort/convenience over that person's suffering.

It's almost impossible to not act in a selfish manner...that's the way humans are, we act in our own interest. I don't think it should me made an argument for or against suicide.

Lastly, I find it amusing how some of you will say, "I think suicide is selfish", but "I'd never actually tell a suicidal person that." What do you think you're doing right now?!?! I found this website because I typed "suicide" into a search engine. This is completely open to the public, and anyone can read this stuff, including people who are suicidal.

Did you ever wonder why people don't seek help when they're suicidal? Part of the problem, is that there's this horrible stigma associated with it. Why would anyone want to admit that they're thinking of killing themselves, when society considers that weak, and selfish, and cowardly, etc etc etc. Maybe if people were more tolerant about suicide, then those who are suicidal would be more willing to seek the help they need, and not end up dead. So if you want to help people who are suicidal, maybe try educating yourself on the matter, and thinking with a more open mind.

Just a thought...

you're 100% right

"The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care .... right ?"

I agree with you Jen.

I think people could try to become educated about suicide but I think that is nearly impossible because killing yourself goes against one of the most primal human instincts.

To go against that must take (as you said) desperate emotional pain or a skewed version of reality in comparison to the rest of us.

The key to understanding why someone does what they do is empathy. Depression is one of the most difficult feelings to empathize with because it is so abstract and non-tangible. It's not simple like hatred or happyness, and in essence depression is a lack of emotion altogether. It is extremely hard to imagine NOT thinking about something, as is it difficult to imagine a lack of feeling.

But I do believe that although there are sicknesses out there, depression is moreso a way of life than a mental sickness. Everyone can empathize with the traits of being depressed if they allow themselves to.

Imagine lethargy, but lethargy that pierces you every time you realize you are lethargic. And every time you get pierced you feel more defeated which brings on more lethargy. It's a self-sustaining state of mind that breaks away at a person, which could very understandably spiral into a void with no hope.

And realistically, once you reach a point with no hope and no escape, you have no reason to live, logically. The only thing that differentiates someone that kills themselves from someone that chooses to live is the existance of hope.

And I'm sure everyone can empathize with a loss of that.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

"get busy living or get busy dying"- Shawshank redemption

-I will confess to suicidal thoughts many times in my life and have turned back typically from a lack of courage rather than a from a sudden embrace of life. I struggled through many episodes of these thoughts and here is what I came up with. I thought that suicide would be a message from me to others as to just how unhappy I was- I think sometimes the Suicidal person wishes to convey this- that they are rejecting life as they feel they have been rejected from life. Also to me I feel many times are hard- I hate working, I hate where I live and sometimes the love from my signifigant other grows very thin etc,,, There are great times as well- I enjoy interactions with people, seeing new and wonderful things etc etc..my point is that the good aspects of life are worth wadding through all the crap. There is plenty of time for death in the end but the time for life is short.
Why is suicide considered selfish? God forbid someone cause pain for others in their passing- they should keep their chin up and tough it through anything to avoid causing hardship for others. I just can never understand that line of thinking- perhaps it the old "greatest gift of all" BS.
It is so damned sad that so many people can feel this way and there is so little help only shameing and guilt trips for them along witrh some very expensive counciling sessions.
For me life seems to be a dark path but the lights along the way seem to make it worthwhile.

"No one ever won a war by sitting in a ditch"

"who's gonna clean up the blood on the wall where you shot yourself? your mother? father? wife? husband? sister? brother? CHILDERN?
who's gonna cut you down from the fan where you hung yourself?
who's gonna drag you out of the water where you drowned your self?
who's gonna take your blood stained clothes from where you drove your self into wall, tree, whatever? "

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What a sad poem, so if your suicidal plan things out so its not an inconveinience for others....

"No one ever won a war by sitting in a ditch"

I don't know if that was sarcastic or not, so if it isn't, just ignore this. Inconvenience? Don't you mean more like "permanent emotional and mentral trauma that you caused to all those you love."

"My drum skills > Your drum skills"

There is some sarcasm therea swell as cynicism- Certainly there will be emotional damage to others my thought is that there are two sides here the sucidal person who is obviously going through a tremendous amount of emotional turmoil and ongoing trauma- vs the pain and suffering that will be felt by there loved ones So as someone who loves someone who is suicidal whould you want them to continually suffer to spare your emotional suffering if they should die? that is my point.

But let me be clear I do not think suicide is a good idea- we have all been depressed at times- life is not perfect but is worth living.

"No one ever won a war by sitting in a ditch"

Couldn't have said it better myself.

"My drum skills > Your drum skills"

The idea of someone wanting to commit suicide is somewhat fascinating and alarming at the same time. Many would agree that suicide is the most selffish act you could commit because you leave your loved ones behind. Although, I completely respect this opinion, I also feel that if someone is in a difficult situation like having a terminal disease and is in a lot of pain they ought to have the right to escape. No one else is going to truly understand the pain they are going through. If someone is having a rough night or they broke up with the one they loved, I tend to be less sympathetic. We all have bad days and the heartache of a break up is difficult but you move on. These are temporary situations that anyone can get through if they are willing to make the move. To me, it all relies on the personal situation. I do not frown on the idea but I think sometimes use suicide as an easy way out--a quick fix. One really needs to evaulate their "difficult" situation and seek help before making a permanent decision like death.[b]

a terminal disease will kill a person eventually anyway. what about a disease that isnt life threatening, but causes them chronic and severe pain? then can they kill themselves? wheres the line?

"I am Akba-Atatdia"