God's Will

"And how can man know what is suitable compensation?"

The compensation required is not man's decision but the Judge's. Ultimately the one that decides must be God. Only God knew or could possibly know what was required to redeem mankind of their sins since it was His law that we violated. And only He knows to what extent we each violate it.

"How can man be punished when he cannot be sure which morality is God's?"

My point was that Paul gives an answer to that question. He states that God has written on the hearts of all mankind his law (the 10 Commandments) thus inevitably there is a sense were we will be judged by our own conscience. Paul states that man will never be in a position to argue 'I did not know I was violating your law' because those laws have been hardwired into us and if we attempt to make such an argument we will know that its nothing more than a lie. C. S. Lewis writes about this by describing how all cultures share the same morality (not to the same degre).

"Thinking themselves wise they became fools..."

I believe death is not evil. And I do not believe that there was ever a time when life was not intertwined with death. To be alive is to be mortal, and to be mortal is to die someday.
In order to understand how God could allow something like the tsunami to happen, assuming that God is omniscient, you have to think a lot bigger than you have been. The universe is already anywhere from 5 to 10 BILLION years old, and will last probably at least that much longer. In the grand scheme of things, if you compressed the entire history of the universe into a single year, human beings would not appear until 2 seconds before midnight on December 31st. Everyone that has ever lived, is living, and will live, before humans ultimatly go extinct (as they must, according to the physical laws of entropy) will probably amount to a cosmic blip on the entire timeline of the universe. And in all probability we are not the only conscious race in the universe.
Add to that the fact that, while the tragedy of so many thousands dying is probably just as painful for God as it is for us, God gave humans the ability to overcome grief and to rebuild and to learn from past mistakes. Nothing is free in this life, and sometimes it takes tragedies for people to set aside their petty differences and focus on the real problems.
I never said those that died in the tsunami deserved it. I was trying to show how they chose to live where they chose to live, and where they chose to live comes with risks. I don't know why there's all this talk of punishment or "deserving" death anyway. Punishment is a human invention, not a divine one. And the only thing people "deserve" is an equal chance to live a life worth remembering, no matter how long or short that life is.

"Everyone that has ever lived, is living, and will live, before humans ultimatly go extinct (as they must, according to the physical laws of entropy) will probably amount to a cosmic blip on the entire timeline of the universe."

So your point is that man is insignificant to nature? How do you know that? How do you know that man is not the most significant part of nature? How do you know that nature was not created for man?

"And in all probability we are not the only conscious race in the universe."

I am sorry but there is no evidence for that assumption. In fact many believe that so many conditions are required for life that it is highly improbable.

"Punishment is a human invention, not a divine one."

How did you arrive at this? It clearly contradicts Judeo-Christian teachings.

"Thinking themselves wise they became fools..."

"My point was that Paul gives an answer to that question. He states that God has written on the hearts of all mankind his law (the 10 Commandments) thus inevitably there is a sense were we will be judged by our own conscience."
Well, how do we know God's morality is Paul's morality?

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

"Well, how do we know God's morality is Paul's morality?"

Whether what Paul teaches is inspired by God is ultimately a question of faith.

To go deeper, the reason I believe it is because I believe God elected me to believe it. That I was given the gift of faith has nothing to do with my worth or works but is a choice God made and his reasons for why are just as mysterious to me. I am not one of those Christians that believe they chose to be a Christian and what I am saying now is as upsetting to them as it is disturbing to non-Christians.

"Thinking themselves wise they became fools..."

^^but you do consider yourself a christian right?...why are you seperating yourself from the world? you are the world, nothing would exist to you if you weren't in it!.... And the universe is not how many billions of years as you think, it just started came into existence.......Time as we think we know it doesn't exist.....Time is the measurment of life, and you can't measure life because it is constantly flowing......

And for you above me....how can you say God has a morale?
God has nothing the creator only emmanates goodness....God just is! I AM THAT I AM!....The beginning and the End is the same time....you're the only person who percieves a difference in intervals......

Therefore What we say is the fall of man how many years ago, is still the fall of man now....The Garden of Eden is earth! Adam and eve is every woman and every man on Earth! The Devil is every principle of man and woman on Earth! God is the every principle of man and woman on Earth!....The Almighty is the every flowing source of life, The nothingness that JUST IS!!!

"Being is not knowing!"

Christians are called to be in the world but not of the world.

God lets things happen...God's cup od wrath must have overfilled, or God let an evil power do something. God is always just.

that of course is for the first comment....

Hi Xris...don't think i'm attackin you...I wouldn't..

"Christians are called to be in the world but not of the world."

Who called them??

One question are you a human?...if that answer is yes than you're part of nature right? If that answer is also yes, then you're a part of earth right? If that's also yes then you're part of the world right?

Now of "Worldly events":
You wake up every morning right?
You go to work every day right?
You eat, sleep, and have relationships?
You go to church right?
You're a sinner right?
You're a christian?

A heathen is a human being
A heathen wakes up every morning
A heathen goes to work every day
A heathen eats, sleeps, and has relationships
A heathen uses the world as his/her church
A heathen is considered a sinner
A heathen accepts he's a heathen

Basically everything's the same..except..a heathen accepts that he's part of the world, the same one he's destroying....

Christians and every other religion say that they're not part of the world, the same world that they as human beings are destroying.......But you're not accepting that you're a part of the world tho?...so does that mean trying to not be yourself?....You're trying to be "Godly" right?...yet you drive to work...pollution...you involuntarily judge...shit I do too... and maybe alot more other sins...What you're purer than the next guy because you "believe" in God?...Do you know the creator?......My friend you're in the same predicament as the one who doesn't know!

Now don't get me wrong, Lying, stealing, murder, and all the other moral things in this world are truly wrong!...but if you accept that you're part of the problem, doesn't making it better come around easier?

^^and to explain that last statement....You may say that you know who God is.....Can you place the creator in a church? Can you place the creator in a word? Can you place the creator in a thought? Is a heart even enough space for the creator?......why go to a building, run like an organization then?.....

Pastor/Priest: Boss
Treasurers
Secretaries
Missionaries(selected)

^^just a few I know from the last time I was at church.... any of those seem similar to what you would find in a corporation?........I'm not an atheist, I'm not a christian or any other religious person...But I know God IS!!!......

when you reply make me understand why you've strayed so far from the simple love of my creator........

"Being is not knowing!"

"Hi Xris...don't think i'm attackin you...I wouldn't.."

Yo - why would I think that - we are simply debating and Im happy to be challenged on anything I write (unlike some people, lol).

God calls us to be in the world but not of it. The world has its own paradigm - the world thinks a certain way that contradicts with the way that God thinks. We, as God's elect, should not embrace the secular paradigm or be cowed by it. We should uphold those beliefs, practices and values that are taught to us by our Creator. They key word is 'should' because, as you said, we are in the world and human and thus imperfect beings.Do we? No but we should.

Is it wrong for me and my fellow children of God to gather and worship together ? I think not. Is it wrong to teach God's truths to his people? I think not. So tell me how I have strayed so far from the simple love of my creator

^^...one day out of a week you go to church to sit with a majority of the time, the same people everyweek...

"Where two are three are gathered in my name speaking of my father!..Jesus said that's what church is right? or something like that...I don't really read the bible!....

However though, isn't talking to your neighbor hood community about the name of God church?....Oh and I know it's for lack of better words...but God doesn't think!..thinking is a restriction of action!....but back to the matter at hand... You've strayed from Gods love believing that Church is the only place where you can show love!.... Not getting angry at somebody scratching your car is also an act of love!.... Church is the restriction of love, that's the only place it is said that God 'should' be worshipped.

And about that word 'Should'.......that's also a restriction of action!.... Why should you want to do something, then when you don't do it, you say you could've done something?.. What's the point of that? Still no action was taken. Action is free from thought, personality, "shoulds, woulds, and coulds" when done with love!..... You've restricted yourself of that love, when you hang on to a single medium of the ever living flow of love which is God....not which comes from God, Which IS God......

Close your eyes...you see darkness and nothing!.... doesn't that read like a contradiction?.... you shouldn't be able to see darkness should you?....Precisely! God is the ever invisible force infront of your face that you see, yet you still don't realize that it's your creator because you're thinking the only place you can worship that creator is in the group format. I can be joyous in the love which is my creator, from now till the end of time, and not wait for anyone to come down from the Clouds of glory......The all seeing eyes of God, is the vision through your eyes, the only thing you own is breath.. and you don't even own that, cuz it always goes back to God! which is the ever flowing breath all around you....

Help me understand why all of this is so confusing.....and I'll help you understand why it's so simple!

"Being is not knowing!"

Yes the Spirit of God has a special relationship when two or more are gathered in His name.

Church simply means gathering. When Gods people gathered together they are in church - they are amongst the Spirit in a special way.

"God doesn't think"

Of course he does - if he didnt then we couldnt.

"You've strayed from Gods love believing that Church is the only place where you can show love!.... "

Ive never seen a board that had people who made so many assumption. Why do you assume that I or Christians think that? I surely do not nor do any Christians that I associate with nor does our Scripture teach it.

"Church is the restriction of love, that's the only place it is said that God 'should' be worshipped."

Thats nonsense - you should try reading the Bible before commenting on it. In fact it says the exact opposite. I worship God daily in many different aspects of that day. I even worship God when Im sad or angry not only when I see a beautiful sunset or things go my way. When someone does something wrong or cruel or evil I ask God to bless them, not to curse them. That is love too.

"Why should you want to do something, then when you don't do it, you say you could've done something?.. "

'The things I want to do I dont do and the things I do I dont want to do. What a wretched soul am I. Who could save me but the Lord Jesus Christ' - St. Paul in Romans

God is not merely love. To say that God is only love is to limit his attributes. God is justice. God is goodness. These trinitarian attributes are essential to God's nature. To ignore one or two at the expense of the other is dangerous and leads to idolatry.

And although God is omnipresent - everything is not God. Some many think they are worshiping God in the snake that bites them - they even make think they are worshiping God in the venom that is killing them - I say they are merely worshiping a reptile, and not for long.

Geez....The end of the world?...Naww!...Tsunamis have been around since Earth's infancy...There have been much worse tsunamis than this last one...Many more people were killed in those...In modern times we have all forms of hi-tech communications that allow us to spread news of such disasters, as well as wars, poverty, disease and death, in a matter of moments....Things aren't getting worse in the world...We just hear about tragedy alot more than we used to,,,That's all.

"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"

Xiris, everything is God means that every thing has the essence of God. The snake itself is not God, but it's essence(soul etc) is God.

Xiris how can God literally 'think'? can he literally think and reason and argue by defination? does he have feelings? does he feel good and bad, is he moody. Humans are always trying to view things from their perspective, be it animals, or be it God, they will percieve it on their own level. Heck, i wouldn't be surprised if someone said God even has sexual urges

"I'll heal ur woundz I'll set u free, I m jesus christ on xtacy"