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Educate Yourself About Money

User Thread
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Educate Yourself About Money
Who makes it, who controls it, and why everyone including our governments are in debt.

Familiarize yourself with the term Usury.

It doesn't have to be this way, we can change it, but we have been deprived, as usual, of the basic information needed to see what is right in front of our face.

Education first and foremost, if we do not know what is wrong, we cannot hope to fix it.

Money is a conceptual tool that can free us, or enslave us.

Take a guess which category we have fallen into.

So we must, absolutely must, take it upon ourselves to get at the very least, a basic rudimentary understanding of money creation and distribution, banking, and its over all effect on the individual up to the world economy.

Though some of the details are indeed complicated, some needlessly but intentionally, the basic and over all concept is not.

That is if you wish to free yourself from perpetual servitude of a debtor society that is unsustainable and forcing people to always increasingly work harder and harder for less and less while manipulators reap the benefits of your labor by simply supplying money, at interest.

And then take your physical belongings once you finally hit the eventual and inevitable point of inability to pay a debt, be it as an individual or an entire country.

This is the key element that will lead to the freeing of the world from tyrannical forces and governments, so this pursuit of education is quite simply, vital.

Again, as usual, we are being manipulated and lied to, such vital information intentionally hidden and convoluted to keep us ignorant of the ease of which we can end such criminal acts.

Federal Fraud Bank link.

http://www.captaincynic.com/thread/33839/the-federal-fraud-bank.htm#3383
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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
861 Evidence - A Disturbing Expose of the United States Income Tax System



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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The first videos were difficult to follow and the solutions they came to for this problem would just create other problems. Give government the power to issue credit instead of a central bank? Yah, that will do wonders to fix this problem. The power of creating and issuing money is a governments greatest creative opportunity, really Abraham Lincoln?

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
The first videos were difficult to follow


Understandable, given some unecessary technicalities that exist to convolute the subject, given an attempt to simplify those technicalities, and perhaps an unfamiliarity to the subject matter and attempting to comprehend many possible new ideas to you at once, etc.

I too had some trouble making sense of some of it.

It covers hundreds of years of monetary and economic theory and history that have been manipulated and hidden in mere minutes, a daunting task to say the least.

quote:
the solutions they came to for this problem would just create other problems


Two things, one, I hope people understand that when I make threads like these they are open invitations to elaborate, clarify, and or even correct, it is by no means myself preaching or pretending to hold ultimate truths or answers.

And, as you may or may not have noticed, the same sentiment is expressed in the video as it offerred possible solutions.

The second point I mean to make about that is inclusive of this point of yours.

quote:
Give government the power to issue credit instead of a central bank? Yah, that will do wonders to fix this problem.


Your damn right it would, unless, we did not address the systemic corruption of the government as well.

We are supposed to be the main body of government, so that includes our inherent corruption and the moral and common sense lapses that allow ourselves to rationalize and justify obvious corruption both in individuals and in our institutions of power, be they economic, government, what have you.

And what you will find in regards to this point of a more responsible government is that when you correct this corrupt monetary system, a lot of the other corruption will cease as well, as they are often one and the same, and otherwise generally headed and or influenced by this conspiracy.

quote:
The power of creating and issuing money is a governments greatest creative opportunity, really Abraham Lincoln?


And Kennedy, and Garfield, and many others who have taken the time to educate themselves on the issue and actually fought to stop the corruption of it, epitomized by Andrew Jackson and his grave stone "I Killed the Bank!"

Lincoln, unlike Kennedy's attempt, actually fullfilled the act, he created greenbacks, an american government made currency without debt to private banks.

And like most presidents that attempted such acts, he was stopped with a bullet in his head.

Like the video stated, and has been stated countless times elsewhere, just not in public schools and mainstream media, the primary cause for the separation of the colonies and the US revolution was their inability to separate from a central bank in england and create money without interest creating instant, perpetual, and upayable debt.

This information is simply the keystone at the top of the pyramid, the first and best thing to understand and address at the root of all other real problems with modern society, it is not the only part, but it is the corrupted foundation of the rest of the corrupteded infrastructure.

I took one of many videos that can be placed, feel free to post more, this is meant to be a community effort intended to help educate and better us all.

Be it in aggreement or not, please don't be shy in helping me and us in helping myself, yourself, and others.

But hands down, it is the basic understanding of this and other points of power structures that are crucial to our addressing corruption in societies everywhere.

The whole point is disseminating information that is either hidden and or manipulated to keep the masses ignorant and therefore enslaved and even accomplices to the progression of such conspiracy.

Let me ask you Chris,

Are you familiar with the subject matter in the presented context, and or do you at least get the basic principle behind what is being said?

And if so, are in agreement or dissagreement with it?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Yah I understand at a basic level what is being done with the central banking system. This is not the first time I was exposed to this. The point we differ on, I think, is that you're for some kind of government and think that government is a beneficial institution. I disagree.

The only issue I'm really torn on if government were completely eliminated would be that of private defense agencies. I don't know if that would be a job better suited to the government or a free market. This is a thread about monetary policy though so I won't talk any more about this but it seems to be related in some way.

I have heard theories of a "competing currencies" system (which Ron Paul advocated) which, if I understand correctly, would be a system where the strongest currency would inevitably be the currency used by people in a market place. You can choose to accept or reject any currencies you wish to as a business owner. It's like a free-market for currencies. If one currency gets too inflated, people could switch to a Euro or create some other note. I really need to research more about it so I can elaborate more on it.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
The point we differ on, I think, is that you're for some kind of government and think that government is a beneficial institution. I disagree.


I think the disagreement or missunderstanding you are speaking of is in a difference in the perception of what a government is and indeed stigmas on the term.

Like I briefly mentioned in the religion fear thread, government exists regardless of whether it is institutionalized or not. All it really is is a body of rules in which we live by and or govern ourselves.

Natural law, gravity, seasons, etc. govern our lives just as our choices do when we interact with one another.

The laws we started out with as a country were voiced and enforced because there is a horrible tendency to forget what kind of issues plague societies and we can all use reminders (education) and of course constant education of new generations who are not born with this knowledge.

Perhaps an enforcement body other than groups of educated citizens is not needed, but a body of information used to educate most definitely is.

quote:
The only issue I'm really torn on if government were completely eliminated would be that of private defense agencies. I don't know if that would be a job better suited to the government or a free market.


I think this comes down to individual responsibility, the people being properly trained (educated) in defense as well.

This is a basic , partial, but by no means conclusive point to your stated concern which I share.

Transparency and access to information and the tools needed to defend ourselves individually and as united groups are definitely key factors and debates.

Perhaps no agencies should exist, as many founders were against standing armies as well, but that would take regulation or indeed no governmental structure.

Mercenaries or even just body guards are inevitable, but defense will always be necessary to some degree or another untill we grow up as a global society and all have our basic needs accessible.

This is why militias were the answer, bodies of citizens who take up arms in times of need.

I think primarily, and perhaps this is the link you spoke of...

quote:
but it seems to be related in some way


perhaps it is taking the for profit (corrupted money) industry out of defense.

This is the same for the economy as well.

The economy, industry, business, all of it, is not supposed to be greed driven and seeking unending profit.

Economies, social, industrial, and governmental bodies etc. are all tools, tools meant to serve the people, to create and maintain a sustainable way of life that improves itself and our way of life through ever expanding efficiencies and growth of knowledge and technology, not continual growth in profits, consequences be damned.

That is why I still allow for the concept of government in some form, in possible disagreement to you, because the tool is never the problem, it is those who abuse it and those who allow its abuse that is.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
This is the same for the economy as well.

The economy, industry, business, all of it, is not supposed to be greed driven and seeking unending profit.


There's an important distinction here I'd like to make between something that is "greed driven" and something that is "selfishly driven", which are two different things.

Greed is inefficient because it takes more than it needs. Any person legitimately trying to make a profit will understand that this mentality isn't profitable. And if they don't come to that understanding then a window is created for someone to overcome.

Selfishly driven motivation is for maximizing profit and there is nothing inherently wrong or evil with this kind of mentality. A person who is simply selfishly driven will realize that it is not beneficial for them to take more or less than what is needed.

Selfish motives have an obvious advantage over greedy motives. If two competing corporations were stalemated in resources and intellect except for these two differences, the selfish one would win.

The motivation for a company to produce quality goods at maximum efficiency and profit will inherently strive for equilibrium in an unfettered market. This runs into a mess when government favoritism is applied to big businesses and the consequences of one's choices are mollified - we're experiencing this now.

quote:
Economies, social, industrial, and governmental bodies etc. are all tools, tools meant to serve the people, to create and maintain a sustainable way of life that improves itself and our way of life through ever expanding efficiencies and growth of knowledge and technology, not continual growth in profits, consequences be damned.


The only thing governments achieve are monopolies. Monopolies of defense, currency and public services. They are inherently anti-productive and only a hindrance to whatever they get in the way of.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 40yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Squarepants is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Our over dependance on cash is due only to our lack of practicall skills and community interaction. The more we learn about how to provide necesseties to our selves and others the richer and better our connections with one another become.

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"I hungry"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Chris,

I lost a lengthy post of agreement with your clarification and thanks for your participation and even enlightening perspective on the no government concept that is somewhat foreign to me due to very evident manipulations in education as well as my current focuses and paths of truth seeking which have not as much covered the area of possible alternatives to such things as government or econimic models as much as it has concentrated on general re-education and in particular the root causes and intentions of such issues of concern, as raised here, and the actors involed.

Information and steps needed in order to formulate a viably practical solution to meet such alternative outcomes as you have suggested.

As resistance is obvious and in need of overcoming or else more universally beneficial practices would already be in effect and properly practiced, or kept from being manipulated from providing their natural and or positively guided effects.

But I did not want the sentiment to be lost because it is strong and felt on many levels, emotional, intellectual, etc. Even days later as I post this.

Because I love to learn and expand my understanding and perspectives and cherish all input from those who seek the same, whether in agreement or not, for themselves and others, as you have proven to do, both in intention and execution.

All of which is made more evident by others failures in this regard, both here and elsewhere I might add.

So thank you. Decius was right to remark on your growth, he's a sharp one indeed.

Yes, this was unecessary, but I refuse to omit positive, or negative for that matter, compulsory honest emotional responses between often dry and at times even frightening information and debate.

End of love fest, well, I liked your post square, but I recommend trying to avoid definitive terms such as "only" as I trap myself with often, especially in impromtu verbal debate, other wise thumbs up.

And while I'm failing to end it, I'll give thanks again to Decius and all who have provided and participated in this site altogether.



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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 40yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Squarepants is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
You are very thoughtfull ironwood this post has been the most interesting so far for me.
I would like to know how to put film clips from you tube onto this though.

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"I hungry"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Embed codes, copy and paste them into embedded video box, make sure to "select all" if it doesn't seem to work.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Thank you ironwood for your sincere compliments. It's encouraging to me. Over the span of time that I've known you on this site, I get the impression that your quest for truth is sincere and I truly believe that any sincere quest will always end in reward. Stay true.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that fearless5555 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Abolish Money altogether.

Sit down and come up with another form of coexistence. Money was the easy way to control people. I say reinvent something else to achieve other than the goal to make lots of money. Removing money will end lots of problems. No more will it be a motivation for killing, power, control, greed, war, crime and above all religion. Evolve already humans. If money is the best thing since sliced bread then we are a race of neanderthals choosing the easy way out.

Well good ideas aint weak and weak ideas aint good.

Human evolution and enlightenment can't wait till 2012 it needs to happen 50 years ago. If overpopulation doesn't erase us from existence then those with the most money will devise a way to remove (exterminate) many of the masses. Together those with the power of money, the support of the media, and the instinct to survive, will start conserving food, water, and shelter for only a select group of humans and to hell with the rest of you, this will be their goal.

So you have to ask your self which side are you on? The side with enough money to be the ones removing the excess population, or the side that draws the short stick. Only one thing will come of this and that's global war, but not for riches, not for glory, but for survival.

Humans must realize that the Earth's resources are finite and we are running out of space for the current population. Something has to give and if the Earth itself doesn't decide for itself, then those with tons of money will, and believe you me, if your not one of those with the money you are the ones, whom they'll decide, doesn't deserve to have the water, food, clean air, and shelter.

My bet is for the Earth, Nature will ultimately decide in the long run, but if we are supposed to be so intelligent then we should be able to work it out amongst ourselves. But this can only happen if the only driving force, that is money, is not removed or changed into something more positive.

So basically it's up to the humans to save themselves. Earth will be here long after we've gone. But before then we can design a system to coexist with each other and sustain ourselves on this only rock which we already know supports life, regardless of what our efforts are to find another rock to pollute. Spreading the current system of managing resources to another place to allow this failed human chosen model of survival need not leave this planet till a better one is devised and implemented so that we don't have to search out more elbow room. Until we can change our ways of destruction for survival, I for one, am happy that we haven't achieved space travel.

Probes to Mars, the moon, and satellites to far planets are not solutions for moving people and the current human survival predicament, this is just a shallow, unaccountable, easy way out. The ideas of traipsing about the universe with the current mindset is doomed to fail and a ludicrous launching point for any intelligent species to undertake.

OK, so what are we to do you ask? Well, first of all we must solve the MONEY issue. Then we need to solve the resources\survival issue, and then the we can focus on moving about the universe.

Your simple day to day life is so consumed with working towards making money you have no time to avert your focus to such ideals. I say stop, take a break from this mindless path of striving to achieve the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR. You can see where it has taken us and it's not a pretty place where we've ended up. In fact it's down right ugly.

50 years of your life striving for an easy chair to watch the boob tube in comfort, a tee time when your retired, and just enough food on your plate to make it to the next day is a pretty shallow goal afforded to you due to money. That's not thinking big, that's plain and simple pure stupidity, and a waste of your life. 50 friggn years of your life, of which you only get one go around of it, striving for money, man what a bunch of idiots.

Money, keeps you in line, under it's thumb, and focuses your mind to avoid thinking of how much it's wasting your precious life for it. Boy oh boy that is very stupid. It's time to break its hold, and the time to remove its power over you is here. If you cannot see this as fact you are so far into debt that you continue blindly because of fear of not being able to make more of it to free yourself from it. What a evil, wasteful, and vicious cycle it promotes and 100's of millions humans settle for it. For it is your master and you are its slave. That's a pretty pathetic goal for any species. Nature is the true Master, not money, You must survive much greater perils as a human than a manmade form of control.

When will you realize this. No amount of money will help you survive the Katrina's, the volcanos, the tsunami's , the earthquakes, and all the like. Having tons of money in the bank as you sit on the shore of the approaching tidal wave or hurricane will not guarantee your survival. You are subject to the will of Mother Nature like the rest of life here on the planet. Money cannot stop nature, Money cannot avert the tidal wave, or stop the hurricane winds, money can only determine the amount you lose when nature destroy's your investment. What a bunch of dopes.

So stop you're sniveling about things you can't control, and start thinking about the things humans can. Money is one thing humans can control and here in-lies the solution.

Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow, at work!

RDM


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"Teach the people how to get along with one another because we already know how not to!"
 40yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Squarepants is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I think money is just a tool that helps us exchange goods with strangers. Your skills or the things you have may not be of any worth to someone who has what you want, this is when money can be helpfull in exchanging.
The real pain is paying back hugh amounts of interest for borrowing money.
You could form a co-op building society that lends money to people without charging interest.
About the lack of resources in the world, the world is vast enough to provide many times our current population. The world is just very badly managed, like a spoilt child in a candy store that can help it self to what ever it wants.

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"I hungry"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
You could form a co-op building society that lends money to people without charging interest.


What would be the incentive for the lender in this situation?

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"The truth will set you on fire"
Educate Yourself About Money
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