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Educate Yourself About Money - Page 2

User Thread
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that fearless5555 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
LOVE could, would, and should be the incentive, and the friendships it creates would provide the security and trust. With out the need to set a value on things, there would be not one thing more valuable than another regardless of what the past system declared it to be. For if there was enough to go around for all then most problems are solved.

How can not anyone see this to be true?

The way of the how is upon us and we must embrace what we have, meaning the earth and its support system, and protect this for all future humans that follow. With out money then mismanagement of it could be corrected and substuted for by forming a new system.

As for the statement about the population being supported many times over this is simply not true. Once the current inhabtants use all the resources with out replenishing them through maintaining and mirroring the earths models and examples, the earth becomes a tomb of sand and rock. Considering the long term has not been a global supported practice, its all me me me, now now and to hell with the other guy. That's the sad reality of the human race up till now. The native american indians had it right, along with many other tribal groups. Technology and advances come at price and its ususally at a cost that the earth cannot maintain at its current rate. At this rate with the given population I am really surprised we lasted this long, and am curious about how much longer it can be sustained. Fuck global warming and all that, but to assume that without replenishing the resources, earth can sustain double or triple the population of humans, that's simply ignorant and a form of thinking that money has produced. There is not an infinite supply of life sustaining resources for the amount of humans now. The best analogy is the car in the garage with the door shut and the car running, eventually you'll run out of air and die, same thing goes with the earth.

The lesson we can learn from the money example is that it too needs to be reproduced\replenished to be maintained, so, ironically, money's model is just the thing we as humans need to copy, but in the form of protecting the planet from our uses. We can see the current situation now, today, that the money model has got us into, it's proof that it has failed miserably. Please dont let this happen to the only known place of sustaining human life. This would be a dire shame and a pathetic way for the human race to become extinct.

Aloha to you all.
rdm

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"Teach the people how to get along with one another because we already know how not to!"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
LOVE could, would, and should be the incentive, and the friendships it creates would provide the security and trust. With out the need to set a value on things, there would be not one thing more valuable than another regardless of what the past system declared it to be. For if there was enough to go around for all then most problems are solved.


I can see the situation now - A hobo on the street asks fearless5555 for a $10,000 loan and out of LOVE (what a guy, huh?) he gives the hobo the loan with no interest and kindly asks him to pay it back in full after 6 months. Well the months pass by and fearless5555's kids ask him why they can't have dinner tonight, and he reassures them that soon his friend whom he trusts very much (because trust is built on "labors of love" ) will return his money and that they can eat again then.

You can guess how this ends.

quote:
With out the need to set a value on things, there would be not one thing more valuable than another regardless of what the past system declared it to be.


Do you really think in most situations an egg is worth more than a cow or a clay pot more than the Hope diamond? Money is not an evil fearless5555, it's an impersonal exchange and commodity. Barter is not possible in complex economies. Money facilitates trade.

And you're right that no one can put an arbitrary price on any commodity, because the process of supply and demand calculates the real price automatically. Supply and demand causes prices of commodities to constantly fluctuate based on the needs and wants of both the buyer and the seller which are constantly changing to tastes, technology etc.

quote:
The native american indians had it right, along with many other tribal groups.


I find it a little funny that you condemn money and praise the Native American Indians for their ways. Are you aware that there were many Native American tribes that used blue beads as both jewelery and currency? Their monetary units were hybrids in that sense, much like gold or silver coins in the Middle Ages (don't quote me that it was the Middle Ages.)

There are certain evils with our modern currency though. There is now a lot of information available about the misuse and exploitation of money. The videos posted in the beginning of this thread are a good place to start.

The U.S. dollar cannot be redeemed in gold like it used to be able to (gold standard.) This means that it's value is based on nothing more than the BELIEF of its value by the people who use it. On top of all this, the government, through the Federal Reserve, can print money out of thin air (money that is not earned) and diminishes the value of every other dollar in existence. It does this sometimes to pay off its debts. This causes what is called inflation.

The process of printing money out of thin air is strikingly similar to pouring water into a public reserve of wine that everyone drinks from.

quote:
Technology and advances come at price and its ususally at a cost that the earth cannot maintain at its current rate. At this rate with the given population I am really surprised we lasted this long, and am curious about how much longer it can be sustained.


I read about a theory in regards to population and the basic gist of it was that if the general population is earning too much, it will consequently be able to sustain more offspring - hence overpopulation. Lazy, dumb Americans are getting paid too much (probably through welfare programs) and having too many kids. Someone is footing the bill - probably child workers in 3rd world countries.

If wages were more where they should be (come to naturally through the absence of government intervention) then I think the population would automatically balance itself out. It is just a theory though.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
[  Edited by ChrisD at   ]
 40yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Squarepants is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The building societies were part of the socialist labour movement back in 19th centry britain. People lived in extream poverty back then in britain, the building societies were to help people get by.

The incentive of interest free lending would be to build better communities.

The population of the world could fit in australia and every body would have about half an acre of land and think about the rest of the land in the world. Google permaculture, that will show people how to manage the worlds resources better.

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"I hungry"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Is it really fair to say that building societies were part of a socialist labor movement? They were formed by the people under conditions of free enterprise because of a demand for low interest loans to buy or build homes - in this case no interest.

The first building societies though achieved this end through "terminating deposits" which basically meant that all members in a specific group were contracted to make small deposits on a regular basis. Then, when there was enough money accumulated in the group, a ballot would be held and the winner would receive an interest free loan of roughly 60% of the value of the home they were to buy. It was basically gambling. People were that desperate in England at the time.

The practice of "terminating deposits" was later outlawed and building societies still remain today.

"One academic study (Heffernan, 2003) found that demutualised societies' pricing behaviour on deposits and mortgages was more favourable to shareholders than to customers, with the remaining mutual building societies offering consistently better rates." - Wikipedia

You're arguing that all mutual or co-operative enterprises are socialist. But this isn't true, because this enterprise arose directly out of a demand from the public and was formed by individuals. It was not created by government intervention, which is a necessity for socialism.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
This the best and simplest explanation I've found for how fractional reserve banking works.

This video appears to have been removed


This video appears to have been removed



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"The truth will set you on fire"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Now, for those who have bothered themselves to look, hopefully a basic understanding of what money is and how it works has been provided, though more is always welcome.

But for the moment I want to move on to another aspect of something Chris alluded to...

quote:
There are certain evils with our modern currency though. There is now a lot of information available about the misuse and exploitation of money. The videos posted in the beginning of this thread are a good place to start.


Ever heard of the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report?

This isn't based on fractional reserves or fiat currency, but it is a massive manipulation of our money system.

It is also utterly crucial information necessary if anyone hopes to understand and change the current system into something that actually benefits the people.



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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I only watched 20 minutes of it, and don't know if I'll ever get through the entire 2 hours but here's what I've gathered so far:

The government shows misleading numbers to the public but actually has much more profit from "cash-cows" like Freddie Mac and Freddie May. It's just bald faced lying really.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Correct, and to elaborate, basically, its two sets of financial books being used.

One is the one we hear about, the budget, how much money is allotted to cover costs of operation and progress.

Paid for through taxes and loans primarily, but also revenue from the government investments.

Which is where the aforementioned lie comes in.

They don't give honest numbers of revenue from these ventures made with your money.

What many are not aware of is that the government holds large shares of stocks in all sorts of businesses and corporations and make tons of money in the stock market, again, with your money.

What the comprehensive annual financial report has been discovered to be is a set of financial records that actually has real and total numbers of revenue and expenditures rather than just budgetary with reduced, fudged, revenue numbers.

And since they are made by local, state, and federal governments it is not conjecture to say it is evidence, proof even, of outright lies and theft of the people's wealth by government.

The lies and trechery, dare I say conspiracy, only grows when you learn who these CAFR's are routinely distributed to, therefore making fully aware of the situation, from politicians to media editors and many who stand in positions to either fix the situation, OR, benefit from it in perpetuity.

This is the indicative difference between budget deficits and debt which will be further expanded upon post haste.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
This video's placement here is indeed to again give some backround on the history of the banking and fiat money system, especially in respect to our constitutional laws that were designed, in part, specifically to counter this nonesense we are seeing and living with and trying to fix.



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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 40yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Squarepants is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
So from what we now understand what do you think would be a solution to get us out of the situation we are in?

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"I hungry"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Unless you have super powers or know someone with the ability to defeat or win over a shadow world super power whose sole intention is to enslave and depopulate the world then the answer is simple.

You must do your part to educate the masses and get people aware, engaged, and involved, especially in your local areas and or through some mass media.

A cheap easy way to get started is flyers with website links to information, find educators with the knowledge or an open mind and get them active, start a lecture circuit, just think grass roots unless you have the means for something else.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Good find Ironwood.

quote:
So from what we now understand what do you think would be a solution to get us out of the situation we are in?


That's the question we've got to ask ourselves. I myself don't know what the solution is. We have to somehow get back on either a gold standard or revert back to gold and silver coin money. It's getting this into practice that's difficult because not many people know enough to care.

Ironwood's suggestion is one way to help, and he's right to keep it grass roots unless you have the means to go beyond that. I'd say the best thing to do at this point would be for us to further our own understanding of the issue so if interest does arise in people, we are readily able to answer questions and disseminate these ideas.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that fearless5555 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Your still trying to think about it tthough what you've been taught or have already been accustom to. Stop it please. Use your brain and think out side of the pre programmed method they have forced upon you and think what not we would use in its place rather just remove it all together. Its along the same lines of when your buddy is 5 cents short of at the coffee shop and they say no problem I got it. The same good will but on a planetary scale.
Jesus must I produce an example to you all?

If you have every one doing what they already do know i.e. farm, build, invent. now just keep doing that but when you get done and you run out of food and supplies you just drive to the store and there it is pick out what you need and take it home and go back to doing what ever it was that you were doing. Just like now only now transactions of trade. Trading no matter what the physical mattter of it is, is such an old idea in an of it self that its time to get rid of it. If You now are thinking of all the ways this is bad keep them to your self or write them down on a separate piece of paper and relax and entertain the idea without casting stones at it for fear of that it may just work, or becasue you think it absurd.
Thinking it absurd is because you have already been exposed of the model of value and worth. Take those out of your pre progammed reasoning and think about it really. The only difference is the stop at the register. Just omit that step. Once you really think about it, it really is useless. If you only take what you need and everything you need is right there then what's the point of trade? IF everyone was allowed the same access there wouldn't be any need to rob others. There would not be any need to have armed robbery, there would be no need for anyone to come up with a reason to take from another. Feed everyone, dont limit them by making it unobtainable with out trading, fucking no wonder there is crime. That idea is stupid and idotic. Stop promoting that, stop hating other for they have not what you have. Why wouldn't you want to give to everyone? If there is no reason to kill for food and waster or energy i.e. money then there would be only sex crimes. Well that would truly limit those to one group to focus on. They would be rounded up in no time.

Just give the people what they need and get on with tapping into the true potential of the human brain. Stop making this super powerful tool repeat the same going in circle task. IF you don't see this by now you really are retarded and have been conditioned so sadly deeply that you have no confidence to think for your self. That is truly sad.

I think we need to have mass group meetins about this until we can agree on this concept. Until we evolve to this level, we are no smarter than your ouselves and the limits we live by set upon us by the past because we dont have any common sense to make it better to move past that which chains us down.

I go to work do what I do now and when I am done I go to the store and get what I like to keep me alive. Round and round, round and round, stupid, stupid, stupid....

My worth is not any less valuable than any body else's and untill we all think this way we will never evolve as a species. IF we all have a say about this as a group of global humans I am sure we can sovlve this in a heartbeat. But Money today is keeping us from even trying. If you dont want to voluneteer your efforts for the common good, then you dont love your brothers and sisters, and you cannot crown thy good with brotherhood in any form. Thats not very human of you.

Take away the pressures of money, getting a better job, education, postion, product than the next guy in order to achieve what????????? EGO, FAME, THINGS?

No more competition for gathering money and there is no more crime. no more stealing food, water, things, energy, etc....

We already know what using money gives us today, just look at the crime rate at your local county, city, state, levels. all due to lack of money.. Armed robbery, theft, and embezzelment, fraud, and on an on.

The humans are so focused on getting and not giving it has created an environment that we need securtiy guards, cameras, alarms, guard dogs, etc... that's pretty sad and pathetic.

Without money what would we have, can you even take a second to imagine.....?
Would you take a second to imagine? Are you too busy trying to get more money and keeping what you've gathered that you dont have time to consider its absurdity??? i think SO.

I just wish you would try it. Try it you might like it. Teach the behavior that would support it and I am not talking about religion. Religion creates fear which promotes denial and feeds the money system. If religion did anyone any good it would be more popular, Religion separates people more than money does. I wont go into that now but it's true.

It should read "The good in people we trust" No wonder so many are so confused and separated, they trust in something they cannot reinforce or depend on. What a baseless faith to promote. Remove money and promote, support, and reinforce the good deeds of humans, remove money altogher and achieve far greater things than we have with the old past ideas of trade....

You humans are so far behind you don't have any more ambition.







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"Teach the people how to get along with one another because we already know how not to!"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
You seem like a good person fearless5555. I don't doubt your sincerity.

Money isn't the evil though. There isn't some intrinsic power in money that causes corruption. The thing you're really against is greed. And I agree with you, greed is destroying this planet and the people along with it.

To fix the problem we'd have to eliminate greed. What's the cause of greed? Misunderstanding and ignorance.

How do you cure misunderstanding and ignorance? Well... as far as I know there aren't any pills for that disease.

A lot of times it takes people direct experience (countless times) to overcome it. Some people realize it doesn't bring them happiness very early on.

The best "cure" I have heard of is just improving yourself as best you can. If you could make yourself happy, truly happy, you would no doubt change the world for the better. Happiness and joy are contagious.

Don't fall into the trap of trying to change other people or things outside of you -- that's futile. The things outside of you change after the things inside of you change.

Good luck to you fearless5555.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that fearless5555 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Greed is just merely another emotion. The problem is that money allows those who wish to continue promoting this emotion have the power of your money, and in capitalism, your life. The whole system has collapsed and they dont have their coporate cameras pointed at this and they report that it's all good. This fallacy that the recession is over is the furtherest thing from the truth and is in no way a positive thinking aspect for those who have lost their ass and everything else. Hip Hip Horray I say, They are band-aiding the damn as fast as they can and lying about the progress, this is just the cover up that is allowing the last few criminals to exit this country with our money. They are merely buying time to get as far away from the masses as they can for they too know the truth is coming and they cant conceal it anylonger thru fear and misdirection, and dont want to be around when it hits, becasue it will be just as Russia failed, then was parted out to the highest bidder, and now russia is just another whore. America is right behind her and when the americans realize this all hell is gonna break lose and they better know their neighbor well enough to not be worried about them taking your stuff or their life to survive.
IN a country of 300 million and heavily armed, only bad at first will happen, after the racial war is over then and only then will the smoke clear and then people we be free to pick up the pieces....
I have to hand it to those in power who used money as the suppressing tool for so long for pulling it off as they did, but also I will see them swing on the eve of that fateful day....All things come to an end and this is no different. I just hope its like what they Romans did to the Christians, put them on PPV and sit back and watch their just deserves....
I will show up then when its over and others like me will teach those so far lost how to restart. I hope to see you there.

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"Teach the people how to get along with one another because we already know how not to!"
Educate Yourself About Money - Page 2
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