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Iraq buildings NOT burning.

User Thread
 54yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Iraq buildings NOT burning.
The Buildings That
AREN'T Burning In Iraq


"They have a saying in the news business," Geraldo Rivera
related this week. "Reporters don't report buildings that
don't burn." And with that introduction, he told a TV
audience about the story that is being systematically
denied to our entire nation: the success story of
post-Saddam Iraq.

Are we losing some soldiers each week?
Yes.

Is there some frustration in the public
about electricity and water service?
Yes.

Are some Saddam Hussein loyalists
throughout the land, making trouble?
Yes.

Has this opened a window for some terrorist mischief?
Yes.

But that's ALL we hear. No wonder the country is
in a mixed mood about Iraq. If you hear about the
buildings that are not burning, though, it is a
different story indeed.

Rivera is no shield for George W. Bush. But Bush, Condi
Rice and Colin Powell together could not have been as
effective as Geraldo was Thursday night on the Fox
News Channel's Hannity and Colmes program.

"When I got to Baghdad, I barely recognized it,"
he began, comparing his just-completed trip
to two others he made during and just after the
battle to topple Saddam. "You have over 30,000
Iraqi cops and militiamen already on the job.

This is four months after major fighting stopped.
Can you imagine that kind of gearing up in this country?
Law and order is better; archaeological sites are being
preserved; factories, schools are being guarded."

But what about the secondhand griping that the media
have been so efficiently relating about power, water
and other infrastructure?

"To say that Iraq is being rebuilt is not true," answered
Rivera. "Iraq is being built. There was no infrastructure
before; we are doing it. I just think the good news is being
underestimated and under reported." At this juncture, one
must evaluate how to feel about the voices telling us only
about the bad news in Iraq, whether from the mouths of
news anchors or Democratic presidential hopefuls. At
best, they are under informed. At worst, their one-sided
assessments of post-Saddam Iraq are intentional
falsehoods for obvious reasons.

If I hear one more person mock that "Mission Accomplished"
banner beneath which President Bush thanked a shipload
of sailors and Marines a few months back, I'm going to spit.
That was a reference to the ouster of Saddam's regime, and
that mission was indeed accomplished, apparently to the great chagrin of the
American left. No one said what followed would be easy or cheap, and that's
why the dripping-water torture of the cost and casualty stories is so
infuriating.

Remember we pay our soldiers whether they are in Iraq
or in Ft Bragg, North Carolina.

We should all mourn the loss of every fallen soldier.
But context cries out to be heard. Our present news media
is not performing this task. As some dare to wonder if this
might become a Vietnam-like quagmire, I'll remind whoever
needs it that most of our 58,000 Vietnam war toll died between 1966 and 1972,
during which we lost an average of about 8,000 per year. That's about 22 per
day, every day,
for thousands of days on end.

Let us hear NO MORE Vietnam comparisons.
They do not equate.

What I hope to hear is more truth, even if we have to
wrench it from the mouths of the media and political
hacks predisposed to bash the remarkable job we are
doing every day in what was not so long ago a totalitarian
wasteland. Local elections are under way across Iraq,
Rivera reported. "Where Kurds and Arabs have been
battling for decades, things have been settling down.
Administrator Paul Bremer is doing a great job."

So does Geraldo think his media colleagues are intentionally
painting with one side of the brush?

"I'm not into conspiracy theories, . but there's just more
bang for your buck when you report the GI who got killed
rather than the 99 who didn't get killed; who make friends,
who helped schedule elections; who helped shops get open
for business; who helped traffic flow again.

"The vast majority of Iraqis are very happy to have us
there. I would like to see a bit more balance." This
needs to be reported to the American Public who are
presently being duped. I expect the dominant media
culture to nitpick and attack Bush, and Democrats to
blast him with reckless abandon. But when that leads
to the willful exclusion of facts that would shine truthful
light on the great work of the American armed forces,
that level of malice plumbs new depths.

If you have a friend that is looking for the truth, and
another point of view, pass this on.


| Permalink
"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
 69yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Stil trying real hard to justify the Lie, eh.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
 62yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
If you go to Iraq.net, you will find many will agree with you, and there will be an equal amount that will disagree with you. For the most part, most of us at Iraq.net have stopped arguing.

The media always sees the glass half-full and reports things in this manner. This makes ratings. Attempts have been made to report positive things, but they don't get ratings. People want to see, blood, guts and gory and they want to here about the sinners. Nobody cares about the good things that might be happening, because of good people. Ratings make money, and money rules the world. I think most at Iraq.net understand this. The Iraqis are equally split between loving the U.S. and hating the U.S. Most however don't have an opinion; they just want to live a normal life. The older ones tell stories of long, long ago before the British and the U.S, who by the way, put Saddam in power, supported by the U.S.

I don't believe that anyone here think Saddam was good and that it is not good that Saddam has been taken out, and I believe everyone here is happy that the Iraqi people now have some choices to make, whereas before they lived under a do or die regime. I believe everyone here is smart enough to now how the media makes its money. But I can't speak for everyone; I can only speak for myself.

What I object to is the manner in which this all took place and I don't believe it had to be done this way. I, along with many other Iraqis had a different vision of toppling Saddam. Bush senior encouraged the Shiite and Kurds to rise up against Saddam and then let them all get slaughtered while Bush Jr. doesn't loose any sleep over dropping bombs all over Iraq. The Bush family doesn't like Saddam because Saddam has mocked and threatened the Bush family. Taking out Saddam was personal and highly supported by rich Capitalists who saw profit, and we can all make it Godly with the help of Tim Lahaye and if the Iraqis should complain, we should admonish them because they should be thankful for their freedom. But the truth never told is that Saddam was on his way out, which's why we never found any weapons of mass destruction. If we would have just sat back, it would have happened on its own, and the Iraqis who were already angry at Bush Sr., and Moslems who don't like America for its support of Israel would have had full control of lots of oil, and we would have none. That would be a threat to our capitalism. All in all, it's all about money, the real satin that rules this world. We are not the heroes, but bullies. But I still love my country and believe in it, knowing that not all American's supported this war, just the one who won the election. But it does not look hopeful that they will win the next one, there is still hope.

| Permalink
"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 59yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that imn2caves is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
[What I object to is the manner in which this all took place and I don't believe it had to be done this way.]

Couldn't have said it better.

[Stil trying real hard to justify the Lie, eh.]

And the worst part is the revisionism that is taking place. Check this out:
http://www.moveon.org/censure/caughtonvideo/

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"No one died when Clinton lied!"
 37yrs • F
A CTL of 1 means that Danipog is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Iraq has oil. Oil makes money. Developing the country allows us to exploit it for its oil. Now we have an oil-rich Middle Eastern country that we don't have to bargain with. That's what the war is about, Patrish.

A lot of what you said might be true, but most people don't consider Geraldo Rivera a legitimate reporter anyway.

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 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The US can't even maintain order over the country.
If the US had to go, it should have gone with adequate numbers of troops.

| Permalink
"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 69yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Oil makes money. Developing the country allows us to exploit it for its oil.
I don't think they believe that they can do otherwise, rather than an active allowing?
They can't match our military hardware & most oil companies has greater capital resources than developling countries.
But speaking of oil you might find this interesting
http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/thrdid=20944-u-frmid=12#24654

I tried link but all I got was a darken room image but I did link to home page.
I found it interesting & informative.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
[  Edited by cturtle at   ]
 37yrs • F
A CTL of 1 means that Danipog is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
cturtle - Yeah I've heard about that a lot. It's been happening around Maine, where I live, recently. Apparently the restaraunts just let people take the oil since it costs more money to dispose of it then to just give it away. But you should probably private message me if you want to talk about this more to avoid getting off topic on this thread.

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 69yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Thanks Danipog, I was seeking to point out that some alternatives do work & well, both finanicallly & ecologically.
but your are right about getting of subject.

| Permalink
"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
 54yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
If you go to Iraq.net, you will find many will agree with you, and there will be an equal amount that will disagree with you. For the most part, most of us at Iraq.net have stopped arguing.


They may not want to voice anything online...because they are being scrutinised, or may believe they are.

AGAIN, IF THIS WAR WAS ABOUT OIL.....we would not be helping BUILD the place.
OIL is a commodity that is purchased, and still is, although we now have control of IRAQ!
We will purchase the oil, and we shall leave the country.
We will treat this as we do any other country we deal with.

We bring freedom where we can, and we HAVE NEVER TOOK CONTROL of a country yet, so the money will be going back to the country.

Wake up, and stop digressing to the falsehoods the liberal media spins to evoke reactionaries. Do you not realise, you are the product of duplicity?

That's what Liberal agenda is all about...controlling the masses, and have been doing so since they aided in the topple of the Papal majesty. (ANOTHER issue, not digressing)

Extremist media, and liberals go hand in hand....which is quite frankly why I am shocked at CNN reporting positive postitions in Iraq.
OR didnt anyone catch that special?

The mere fact is, if you didnt have something to gripe about, you would be doing less 'opinionating' and observing more.

The country is calming down, and it has even been reported, and will let time be the ultimate factor, that the possibility for middle east peace is on the way.

BUT...that's when I will be worried.
Prophesies report thru apparitions and other factors, that when there is peace in middle east.....the end is near.

TTFN





| Permalink
"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
 59yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that imn2caves is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
[I am shocked at CNN reporting positive postitions in Iraq.
OR didnt anyone catch that special?]

Yes I saw the piece. It was quite positive and uplifting. I saw something similar on CBS about a month ago as well. In fact NBC did the same thing too.

Look Pat, nobody wants to see the Iraqis live in a state of hell on earth. Even the staunchist of Bush haters wants Iraq to live in peace. But if Enron can screw Americans (the grandma's of California), you must realize why there is a suspicion regarding Iraq. It's called greed!!!!

This is not liberal media, its called common sense.

[if you didnt have something to gripe about]

Tell this to one of the fathers of a soldier who died in Iraq. He still wants to know why we went to war. Does he not have a right to gripe?

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"No one died when Clinton lied!"
 54yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I hate to be so glib, but each soldier that signed up for duty, did it because they wanted to be a part of our freedoms, and fight for their own, and everyone elses freedoms.

The parents who lost, are going to mourn their children, but most of them see their children as dying hero's. And the fact they canot live their children's lives is the most frustrating part.
Look, I lost 2 nephews within 7 mo's...I know about loss.
They were close to me, and they were aged 12, and 6.

NOW HERE IS ANOTHER EMAIL I WANTED TO SHARE FOLKS!!!


Subject: The Rest of the Story - Iraq
>
> This is a letter from Ray Reynolds, a medic in the Iowa Army National
>Guard, serving in Iraq:
>
> As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in
>Iraq,
> I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media.
>They
> have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I
>am
> sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week
> leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something
>is
> happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on
>to
> you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently:
> (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that
> your paper is producing.)
>
> * Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
> * School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
> * Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored
> there so education can occur.
> * The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from
> ships faster.
> * The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
> * Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time
> ever in Iraq.
> * The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before
>the
> war.
> * 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35%
> before the war.
> * Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils
>are
> in place.
> * Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
> * Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
> * Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
> * Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side
>with
> US soldiers.
> * Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.
> * Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to
> prevent the spread of germs.
> * An interim constitution has been signed.
> * Girls are allowed to attend school.
> * Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first
> time in 30 years.
>
> Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us
> there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and
>in
> a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but
> they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I
> challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you
> happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address
>and
> send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you
>are
> like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been
> portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good
>things
> happening.
>
> Ray Reynolds, SFC
> Iowa Army National Guard
> 234th Signal Battalion




YOU really need to start focusing on 'DOING UNTO OTHERS'....
and realise GOD must have surely desired the fal of Saddam....the evil tyrant.

LOOK at the GOOD that has been placed b4 a country of humans, who like yourselves, have need for clean water, schooling, and medical needs.

You have these freedoms, and have the luxury to sit in your chairs and state how rotten BUSH is for doing these things.....

Yes, ppl died, but they died for the GOOD of others.

| Permalink
"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
 69yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
patri, just from me to you, I served is Nam. I had friends die in Nam, I had more friends die after Nam as the results of the chemical weapons & contaminated medical suppllies (blood, unsterile synrenges, etc) & lack of treatment upon their return.
quote:
Yes, ppl died, but they died for the GOOD of others.
What did they die for so some capitalist could mke money, so the US can play lil' Tin God? So excuse the HELL out of me if I get angery with ppl who are so caught up in some holier than thou, we are the way attitudes.
------------------------------
I don't hate you or them, but I do hate what they do & when they put that LIE upon Christ, I tend to get very verbal about it. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings but I needed to release some of my anger at such waywardness.
It isn't the way of Christ that is sure as Hell the truth!

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
[  Edited by cturtle at   ]
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"YOU really need to start focusing on 'DOING UNTO OTHERS'....
and realise GOD must have surely desired the fal of Saddam....the evil tyrant."
...and realise GOD must have surely desired the fall of the twin towers... housing those decadent infidels.

Sorry, but God rhetoric only makes you seem like the fundies we're fighting.

"Yes, ppl died, but they died for the GOOD of others."
Trouble is, the place is unstable as hell. US troops can barely keep control, once they leave, then what? The government will have a Weimar style legitimacy and control of the country. It will be a political void which every extremist is going to want to fill.

If we had to go to Iraq for supposed humanitarian reasons, Bush should have prepared more for the nation building and sent enough troops to ensure SECURITY. It seems like every week there's another bomb killing 50 or so Iraqi policeman working for the US, what message does that send?

He did not apply the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force. Sure he smothered a decadent generallissimo regime (no hard feat), but he cannot maintain order and security : 2 key needs of democracy.

| Permalink
"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 54yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
CT, this is NOT nam. Sorry it messed with you, but again, THIS IS NOT NAM!

We cannot sit holding hands and singing Kumbaya with terrorists. They hate us...and until you realise that this is a defensive offense, you might open your mind.

This is NOT about other countries civil war....this is about the attacks on America...over the years mind you.

What...stay home, and wait for more murders in america??? Unbelievable.

quote:
Trouble is, the place is unstable as hell. US troops can barely keep control, once they leave, then what? The government will have a Weimar style legitimacy and control of the country. It will be a political void which every extremist is going to want to fill.


YOU believe this because the media says so...!

BTW DT, please use the quote system, makes it so much easier to see what someone else said, and what you are saying...eh.



quote:
If we had to go to Iraq for supposed humanitarian reasons, Bush should have prepared more for the nation building and sent enough troops to ensure SECURITY. It seems like every week there's another bomb killing 50 or so Iraqi policeman working for the US, what message does that send


I just showed the whole list of things accomplished...and troops are all over the world for various reasons, for securing other nations who are allied to us...

You are almost of age... Anyway, there are murderers in america to....can we always predict their behavior?

IF we have limited police...can we pull them out of hats and make them aware of the killings b4 it happens. that is preposterous.

And more troops are training right now. I have a wonderful friend, a woman, age 18 training now...this is how it works. Especially when we have to secure more than just Iraq.



quote:
It isn't the way of Christ that is sure as Hell the truth!


I suppose you are the official spokesman for Christ...?

I already explained how the system works. Christ came to rid us of Mosiac law, but not once had he ever changed the rule of the Father.

Let me ask CT, why would you think jesus would not want good things for all his people in all nations?

America has freed this nation, and has done so for the innocent ppl.

IF the terrorists are hard cold killers, and they will not turn their hard hearts from the murdering ways, what makes you think Jesus wants this?

YES, God may have allowed the terrorists to wake up america, and get them into action...
who knows the MIND of God?

BUT as long as good is being done, then it is obvious that this has perhaps been the work of God thru men.

WHY do you think america has the power and technology to do these things. And how non imperialistic they are...makes for a good army.
Let's not forget how they avoided the mass destruction of lives, but only sought after the buildings, and the leaders who were the ones who needed taken out.

YOU honestly cannot see God in this?

There are tons of quotes on how God uses nations to give punishment to unjust leaders, nations, and ppl.....AND AGAIN I ADD CT, THOSE WHO USE THE SWORD SHALL PERISH BY THE SWORD....WHO USED THE SWORD FIRST???
AND THUS, HOW SHALL THEY PERISH?

Christ WANTS food, water and medical needs for all people...so open your eyes! We have delivered them from a tyrant who kills them, and starves them...this is GOOD they are free.

In the eyes of the Lord. Peace!


| Permalink
"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
Iraq buildings NOT burning.
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