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futility of romantic 'love' - Page 3

User Thread
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zach is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
The goal should not be to be perfect, it should be to be as perfect as is possible.


Well said. Never stop improving yourself. Never give up. Always keep your head high and walk face first into the wind and tell fate to back the fuck off or you will teach it a lesson.

Just my opinion.

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 55yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that spicesoup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"so whats wrong with it if i am attracted to her"

is what my sweetheart has said. the question now remains on how to kill myself. in spirit. so that the desire to reconnect to a man never arises again.


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"live this day as if it were your last"
 30yrs • F •
Miss Kitty is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Spicesoup, don't say that. I know you must be lost and feel as if it is just so stupid. After all, that's what it keeps comming to, right? I know that I am young and I am aware of the fact that you have far more life experience than I just as almost everyone else on this site does. But, as Zach said, hope is all we have. I cried when I read that because I am about to give up too. But not on the man I love but on myself. Reading that and realizing that I have people that love me and even if I am indeed alone in this world, what would giving up do?
If life is a challenge and you give in, well then, what's the point?
there are things in life worth fighting for and even I know that what you talked about before, a love that fully encompased you, a feeling of belonging, of peace... that doesn't walk up to you on the street. Zach's right. we have to battle for happiness. Giving in is simple way out. Happiness, belonging, these are things we create.

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"Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be! ~Miguel de Cervantes"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zach is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I just watched the movie "City of Angels" and it was amazing. It shows what love "should" be like. Unfortunately only a few find this in their lifetime.

Im sorry your husband dissapoints you. Sometimes I doubt the entire concept of romantic love. Its dangerous. Very dangerous. My life has been nearly hell because of it. I think there are only a small percentage of people out there who can actually devote themselves completely and utterly to another person. In all aspects of their lives. Mind, Body and Soul. But doing so can lead to catastrophic disaster if the relationship fails. This is what spicesoup is experiencing. She has given every ounce of her heart and soul to this man but he can't seem to do the same back. I did this for the first time already with my last girlfriend and I have been paying dearly for it. Then she spits in my face by dating my best friend. Imagine that.

So be weary in giving your all to a person. It can lead to your end. If you put it all in.... You are risking it all. All or nothing. Right? And he hasn't given it all and you are now fucked. I completely understand the feeling. Its the most horrific dissapointment i've known in my life.

But know- I am one of those guys. I can give my all. I have. And now I am paying for it. And I doubt I will ever do it again. Romantic love is a shot in the dark and is pretty much a assured failure at one point in time or another.

But if you give up. You are nothing. You can choose to be true to yourself and who you are and find someone who WILL give it all or accept that you don't have it and probably won't. Its a horrible thing but its real.

So what do we do? I have found that loving people in general is rewarding and can suffice this thirst for connection with other people. But it will never quench that thirst completely. Im still working on that. Compassion and love for everyone seems to be more than I expected. But I can't help but want that perfect love. How can we get it? Is there such a thing as soul mates? Why do I love so deep but never get it returned? Is this all worth the risk? Can I bear the failure again?

What are we to do? Help.

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 58yrs • M •
wolfnickwolf is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
All MEN lust after "other " women, but your man loves you , he might look, have a secret thought, but his heart is yours, always yours, forever yours, because he loves you , and will never be unfaithful to you

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"Live Life"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zach is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Your wrong. Not all men lust after other women. I can completely control myself. Sorry buddy.

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 55yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that spicesoup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
All MEN lust after "other " women, but your man loves you , he might look, have a secret thought, but his heart is yours, always yours, forever yours, because he loves you , and will never be unfaithful to you


it is not easy to feel consoled that he "loves" me while he is lusting after others.

"unfaithfulness" is not just an act of physical sex - for even in that u might come down to the absurd clintonian definition of faithfulness.

unfaithfulness is about being with another - and that could be in mind or in body.

it is pointless to feel good that he will always be by my side, while his mind is busy with others.

isn't it totally demeaning ?

let the rest of his being follow his fantasy.

who wants a man whose mind and heart are not integrated ?

i am not in any position of disadvantage that i shud be forced to settle for this compromise !

and if all men are this way (except zach ) then i dont need men maybe.

i will not participate in an unfair system !

actually i dont even believe that it is NATURAL to fantasize abotu tohers. i think it is a liberty men have decided to take by repeating this often enuff and making women accept it. and hugh heffner caters to this alongside the world of media. so its a vicious circle where 'modern' and 'open minded' and 'secure' women are expected to accept a man's mental promiscuity.
how on earth cud i be secure that the man is mine , if at this moment he is shagging on a playboy ? or who knows who is in his head as he makes love to me ?

why wud i (or any woman) subject myself to such soulshattering experiences ?

life works for most people because they do not even step back to examine these issues. but once u have thot about it, and discussed it - it is impossible to live this anymore.


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"live this day as if it were your last"
 55yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that spicesoup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
further, men have figured that they can get away with lack of control in this area and it HAS been sanctioned even by most women today - so why not have yr cake and eat it too ?

i believe that in order to gain somethign beautiful, some price must be paid. and the price for getting love on a sustained basis is exclusivity - IN EVERY WAY.

but men have learned that its not just okay to cheat in the mind, but also be open about it, since women want to be one up on each other and bend even further to make a man comfortable. and so - let him buy his playboys as long as i am the one he loves - and let him fantasize as long as i am the one he actually f's.

the man thinks - wow - i am forced into controlling my instinct to go and pass on my seed to that woman across the street. but what the hell, let me do it in my mind anyway - who will know ? and my woman thinks its fine too...

i think the world has come to accept too many horrors in the name of freedoms and rights.

if the man were unattached then this wud all be fine. but if he is "in love" with me, then "i" and his love and devotion for me shud have blocked out all other women in his head as well. and if that isnt happening - then he is not in love with me.

and then there is no case for togetherness.











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"live this day as if it were your last"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zach is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I completely Agree with Spicesoup.

Just know that not all men are like that - I promise.

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 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Cynic-Al is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
my question to you Zach is what happens to you if you like more than one girl before you enter a relationship. I cannot accept that you only ever like one girl at a time (when you are unattached), so when you start dating one girl does any previous interest in any other potentials evaporate immediately or as with most people fizzle (if the relationship is to work) or lie mostly dormant at the back of your mind wandering out to make a nuisance of itself every now and then (if this happens a lot then the relationship is doomed)? When i started going out with my girlfriend i would have said i was interested in at least one other girl and this interested did not leave immediately, chances are that had my current relationship failed i may well have sought to date the other girl. During the relationship however my mind stops at acknowledging attraction.

To spicesoup, can you 100% honestly tell me that at no point during any of your relationships you have never felt any interest in anoy man other than the one you are dating? if so you must be almost unique among women, as from my experience a lot of the women i know have expressed interest in someone other than the man they are dating, this may not be someone they actually know (eg a film star or musician) but even so they are being no more true than their partner who happens to occasionaly wonder what next doors wife would look like wearing a bit less. neither will likely have the chance to take this any further than mental musing, nor would they be likely to act up on this if they did, but nonetheless it still exists in both partners. In some ways i also think that the female fantasy is actually worse in some ways than the male fantasies. The male fantasy is generally focused on the purely physical side of a relationship, whereas the female fantasy is usually more focused on romance and love.

the thing i find ironic about the whole scenario is the fact that everyone assumes that it must be the lust for another that is unnatural. we are as far as i am aware the only species that remains with only one partner for the whole of our life (or at least attempts to). all other animals stay together for varying periods from literally the time up to fertilisation, to however long it takes for their offspring to be able to move on. viewed in this light, it would appear that romantic love, or in fact any form of love over the most base level of physical attraction, is the social construct, and one that has become so strongly ingrained in us during our evolution that some like zach have been able to overcome it, and others like spicesoup feel uncomfortable with "the beast" that is the gentic remainder of our socially redeveloped nature. perhaps given a few more generations evolution will have totally overridden that part of our nature (in both men and women) (at which point the magnates of the porn industry will probably break down and cry). until then however it appears we must console ourselves with faithfulness in the actions of our partners, and the fact that in the majority of cases both sides commit the same crimes (though men do tend to be more direct about their fantasies).

Call me cynical if you will, but from my point of view this does appear to be the logical way to take the world. we don't neccesarily have to accept it, in fact attempting to change it is a good idea, otherwise nothing would ever change, but expecting a total overhaul of something so deeply ingrained in both sexes and this society within you lifetime is optimistic to the point of believing that the glass cannot get less than half full.

Cynic-Al

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"So Schrodinger's Cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by elbows and peanut butter?"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zach is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
my question to you Zach is what happens to you if you like more than one girl before you enter a relationship. I cannot accept that you only ever like one girl at a time (when you are unattached), so when you start dating one girl does any previous interest in any other potentials evaporate immediately or as with most people fizzle (if the relationship is to work) or lie mostly dormant at the back of your mind wandering out to make a nuisance of itself every now and then (if this happens a lot then the relationship is doomed)? When i started going out with my girlfriend i would have said i was interested in at least one other girl and this interested did not leave immediately, chances are that had my current relationship failed i may well have sought to date the other girl. During the relationship however my mind stops at acknowledging attraction.




You are very right that I amattracted to more than one person at a time. When I like someone I will pursue them and if it doesn't work out then I move on. If they accept me then I will "start" to focus my heart on that person. Mean while my attraction to the others will still be there although I will have made a concious effort to neglect that attraction as to build it with my new mate. In time as my heart grows closer to the person im with - there is a line that is crossed and I am no longer in "like" with other people. Its all her.

As for the attraction to the other girls though- I will ALWAYS be attracted to different girls. There are always prettier, smarter, wealthier and etc.. females out there there, but they key is not allowing yourself to lust after them. Its like a temptation. You can't ever stop the temptation in this situation (unless you lived where no other humans existed) But you can control the want to indulge in the lust. The key is self control and to learn to be content with the person you love completely. ^^ Hope this made some sense. <3

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 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Cynic-Al is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
i think what you said makes quite a lot of sense. I can agree totally with your position, if you are lusting after someone else, either you lack self control, or there is something wrong in your relationship. the majority of the time the former is true (though the partner tends to believe it is the later that is the problem, hence the acceptance of fantasies and porn, in the hope that by letting a bit stray the whole is kept). Most people do just need a bit more self control.

sorry bout the tone of the previous post, i was just a bit stressed at the time and didn't realise how harshly i came across

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"So Schrodinger's Cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by elbows and peanut butter?"
 55yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that spicesoup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
cynical,
quote:
To spicesoup, can you 100% honestly tell me that at no point during any of your relationships you have never felt any interest in anoy man other than the one you are dating?


in earlier relationships i wa snot as anchored ever as i am in this one. and yes i have never been so serious before. this is my first experience of devotion - which results in exclusion of all else. but maybe i am not that anchor for him ..maybe there is someone else out there for him who will give him this feeling of completeness in a way that excludes every other woman even in his fantasy. just because i have found anchor with him, is hardly a reason to expect the converse. so maybe he does love me, but i am not 'the one'.


quote:
as far as i am aware the only species that remains with only one partner for the whole of our life (or at least attempts to). all other animals stay together for varying periods from literally the time up to fertilisation, to however long it takes for their offspring to be able to move on.


this is not strictly true. there are enuff species known to mate for life. but thats besides the point that u are making -which is very good.

but the tragedy is that until we evolve to that level, i am miserable in not being the sole provider of all my mans needs. and see his (sanctioned & self justified) inability to control himself even in fantasy as an infidelity.

so tho' the mind can understand the male viewpoint - the heart is still distressed

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"live this day as if it were your last"
 55yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that spicesoup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
and zach's attitude is exactly what i need from my man.





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"live this day as if it were your last"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zach is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I believe that what you are seeking out is out there, but its not with your man right now. Im not saying to leave him or anything like that but you can't change him (im sure you know that and Im not saying your trying to change him either), he can only change himself. Only we can change ourselves.

The sad truth is, if he won't/doesn't want to change himself to meet your expectations then you may have to find someone who has likewise views. I will never date anyone who disagree's on my basic moral principles because those are something that must match to aquire deep intimacy in my opinion. The better the match the deeper the possibility of amazing intimacy. This is how I view it.

So you have a few options spice soup.

1. Stick with him and learn somehow to accept fully this view he has. Cope and deal. (sad but you might have to)
2. Leave. You can leave and hope to find a man who has likewise views that you may achieve this deep heart longing you have been searching for.
3. Give up on relationships totally. You can give up and decide to stay by yourself for the rest of your life. (Which may not be a bad thing to tell you the truth. You could completely find yourself and not worry about the problems your currently in.)

Those are the only 3 options I can see at this point in time. Let me know what you think.

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futility of romantic 'love' - Page 3
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