futility of romantic 'love'

If you are not the mother for him, then he is certainly not the hunter for you. They are both one and the same.

You are quite intelligent and aware to reject his changes that are based on your pacification rather than his own needs to purify himself... Most people are quite content with such changes in others.

The ironic thing is that when he states all men are like this, he isn't lying to you... he truly believes this. Most men do.

In fact, it is almost unbelievable that it is not natural.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

and so , if it is a common belief that alllllllll men are promiscuous in their minds, while living out a commitment in day to day life, there is a divergence between their desire and their actions. maybe society, or practicality of securing the next fuck, and the comfort of living in continuation overrule that desire. but that desire IS divergent from his action. which renders the action a bit of a compromise and a farce.

because the female has her actions and her desires aligned and there is no pretense or compromise.

which brings us right back to the point i made in the first post

* the futility of romantic love from the female perspective

and

* the cruelty and injustice of nature against the females of the human race

shall i laugh or cry at this !!!!

p.s. being intelligent is a curse. all the analysis that goes on, demands purity and truth. and upon finding the lack of it, the frustration becomes unbearable. and turned inward it kills.

"live this day as if it were your last"
[  Edited by spicesoup at   ]

i would like to add, that there is some compensation planned by nature.

while romantic love is futile from the female perspective, there is maternal love which has no parallel for the male.

so the male and the female are rewarded but very differently.

and looking at just one slice of nature's plans makes it look like there is injustice.

so the female's devotion to her male, may or may not result in an equal and opposite reaction from HIM.

but on a totally different dimension - of parenting her rewards are way higher than that of the male

BUT, the aspect i am traumatising over these days is the futility of romantic love - and my very fulfilling mothering experience with my children does not make the agony of a futile romantic love any easier to bear.

once again, i am hoping to be born as the queen bee in my next life !!

"live this day as if it were your last"

There is most certainly a contradictory duality in most married men. Men drink beer and watch porno. Men joke about other women's asses and breasts, but only with their male friends.

They fear doing so in front of their partners because their partners are generally insecure.

To be clear, this is not a male only problem. If most women were capable of believing that this problem is the male's weaknesses and not a sign of their own innadequacy, such issues could probably be resolved quickly. (for example, if it was concluded that the male would cure himself of the beast by having sex with a prostitute, how many women would be willing to let their husband do this?)

And there is most certainly a parralel to being the mother... it is being the hunter. The romance you speak of is a part of this dynamic and without the very necessary traits of the hunter, the mother would be lost.

The hunter hunts, changes, evolves the world... the mother supports his desire to do so. Both are incredibly necessary.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Part 2 of yoru answer i need to think about.

in part 1 you say that the male beast would be cured by letting the fantasy be lived out. exactly what i am doing now. if the desire exists - then by all means go and do it. there is no need for restraint for the reason that his woman is insecure.

my stand however, is that 'go, but dont come back'. for devotion and the infinity of the hunter mother relationship must necessarily be mutual. and if at some point there is, even in fantasy a disloyalty to me, then there is no reason for me to accept it.

it is no longer a question of curbing his desire. it is an issue of rejecting the entire deal with this hunter who still has not found the mother in me. if the beast exists even in thought, ( no doubt the man controls his actions ) then i dont accept it.

an unequal deal, with full devotion on one side and partial promiscuity on the other side, is unfair and just not acceptable.

and its just too bad if all the worlds men are built like this.

am just lucky to have gone thru this analysis after having lived a pretty full life ! otherwise i'd be compelled to seek my aristophanes twin in a female or an object ! at this stage i can just sit back and become a recluse or give up life - with the justification that nature is all screwed up.

"live this day as if it were your last"

quote:

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in part 1 you say that the male beast would be cured by letting the fantasy be lived out

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quote:

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my stand however, is that 'go, but dont come back'. for devotion and the infinity of the hunter mother relationship must necessarily be mutual.

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"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

true.

i tend to think it has to do with my disdain for his weakness, because and not my insecurity and the supporting reason is this.

in all my life thru all the relationships with other partners, this is the first time i am noticing the presence fo other women. surely other competing females always existed. so why is this the first time i am experiencing this feeling ?

one reason could be the openness in this relationship which has let me into a male mind much deeper than the past relationships over the years.

another could be that as i am older and less physically comeptitive than younger girls this demon has now grown. but i doubt that this is true because in another relationship 10 years ago, i was thirty, havign had babies, with exactly the same loss of competitiveness, yet i did not feel the inadequacy i now feel.

so i am inclined to believe that this is a reaction to his behavior which he conveniently excuses away as maleness.

"live this day as if it were your last"

That makes sense. And in such situations when you have so obviously analyzed it from a very unbiased perspective, I think you are unlikely to ever regret following your instincts.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

This is a very interesting conversation. I enjoy it.

Spicesoup- When I said "Forgiveness" It had to be after he realized that pursuing "pleasure" will NOT bring him lasting happiness. There is a HUGE difference between Happiness and Pleasure. He must stop focusing on Pleasure and focus on what will bring him true happiness in his life. Lusting after Porn of Fantasies or other women will never satisfy him. It will always leave him wanting more.

Happiness is so much different. It is so much deeper. Only when he stops trying to satisfy desires that will ultimately end in dissapointment will he be able to truly appreciate what he has in his life right now- You.

If he never realizes this, then you must indeed move on. Im sorry to hear that you are going through this, but sadly this is how our society has been taught to think. Its all wrong. But all men are not like this, and I would like to think I am not one of them. Decius seems to be a great guy also.

Whether you relationship ends or not, remember this. You are never to old to be happy. Never give up! and Never Surrender!

Much <3 Zach.

his fantasy flashes are involuntary. he takes no action to realise those fantasies. yet, involunatry as they may be, they exist. i have never been witness to any behavior on his part that implies pursuit . but through our chats which sometimes last for 8 hours a day - i have discovered these demons.
so i would not say that there is a pursuit of pleasure, while there is definitely a pursuit of happiness which he feels with me. he has done a lot, to try and hold on to us.
and yet, i cannot come to terms with the 'male' hardwiring bit.
to me, even one flash of fantasy or momentary desire for another woman is a breach of desire for me. and why should i want to be with a man who wants not just me but also a harem ? why should he have to "settle" for me even in that singular moment of desire when his being is brawn to the centrefold of playboy ? let him go and get her. i am not a substitue for things he cannot get. nor am i needy enough to accept this. there IS an either or. unfortunately i cannot see it any other way.
this is clearly a result of ego. and tho' many philosophies see the ego as a problem, i think it is a defense mechanism. and i HAVE tried to acquiese the ego. yet if it keeps coming up, then this is an inbuilt hardwirign as well. just as his maleness is.

and abotu not surrendering i don't know if there is energy left. this episode has made me question, not just whats between him and me, but also the nature of man-woman relationships which seem futile.

yes there are other men too. but even in this forum, we are not able to arrive at any better conclusion than that which i started with. so if romantci relationships are indeed futile then whats next ?

sure maternal happiness exists, social service happiness exists, filial responisbilities give happiness, achievement brings that too.

but NONE of these is as fulfilling and as anchoring as romantic happiness. so to continue to live, knowing fully well the futility of that, is like living a very sad and very very compromised living.

before this relationship and the analysis it brought, i had the advantage of naivete on my side - i cud dream and hope and look for fulfilment thru romantic love. now that the object of my search - appears to have been proved to be a mirage by fundalmentals of nature, there is no more search. i am in a static place.

and currently contructing how to live out the rest of my days carrying out the responsibilites i have ti the children i created.

just day to day existence with day to day activities.

no more quest for happiness.

seen intense and infinite happiness and also seen its fragility and felt frauded by its mirage-like quality.

so am tired.

"live this day as if it were your last"

quote:

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his fantasy flashes are involuntary. he takes no action to realise those fantasies. yet, involunatry as they may be, they exist. i have never been witness to any behavior on his part that implies pursuit . but through our chats which sometimes last for 8 hours a day - i have discovered these demons.

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u r 19. an dyou stopped as a result of realisations.
he is 49. and has lived this life for the past whatever years with sanction from his first wife.
the need for control has never been felt up until now.
and its probably hard to enforce control on soemthing like this for him at this age, after having indulged in it for nearly double your lifetime ( assuming he started at 14 - thats 35 years of fantasizing ! ). it is foolish for me to hope for such a funadamental change.

and u r right - hope is all we have. btu when even that is lost - all we have is futility !

"live this day as if it were your last"

I Understand that he is 49 and I am still Very Young. I just refuse to give up hope. If you give up now, your life is over even though you could still have 40 years to live. I hope you can find some way to solve your problems.

it takes training and discipline to give up hope.

once u surrender hope, u accept futility. the problem ceases to be a problem - it just becomes an environmental condition. like the weather.

existence replaces life. zero struggle. zero pain. zero fluctuation in emotional states.

vestiges of hope remain with me. with intense thinking someday these may be killed.

and then i will live 'happily' ever after !

"live this day as if it were your last"

Elie Wiesel:
The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.