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Would society be better without money? - Page 6

User Thread
 32yrs • M •
robertSLXblack is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
I think that a society free of our biggest current barrier would be the key to the future of logicall human development and evolution . But people are still way too locked up in the box by years of doctrine ,envy , and we and them theory . A society without money is currently way to complex to be cataloged in communism or any kind of chaotic rule or organization . It's on social education and implementation of the ideas of equality, morality , efficiency , activity , freedom , pursuit of dreams through hard study and practice. reward remains a problem as well as stimulation and leadership and what about the huge industry that money have created what will all the bankers brokers accountants ...they'r history should be kept or erased . Many questions still i believe that together WE can change the world as we know it , and whit it we can change ourselves our most basic instincts are becoming more and more unneeded and uncalled for

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"when whe shall understand how big we are . Humanity shall understand how small is the univers in comparation whit US"
 54yrs • M •
mutant121 is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Heavens yes it would be a much better society. Has anyone bothered to study it, I mean really study it. Please do a search for Zeitgeist the movie and then The Zeitgeist addendum, after that, look at the website http://www.thevenusproject.com/ by Jacque Fresco. Jacque is a futurist and a wonderful individual who has big ideas about society. I truly believe that it can be done now, but everyone that thinks it cannot be done is right because they have already defeated themselves with negative sentiments. But those that think that it can be done are equally right and will make it work because they already have it in their mind that it can be done. Stop making excuses for why not. And by the way, this is not communism, communism still uses money and still has an oppressive government. But with a moneyless society, every need would be met, you go to the store and you get what you need, you have a place to live, your clothes are all taken care of, you will not want for nothing. No bills, all the education you want, if you want to work hard in the fields you can but you don't have to, it is a choice, we have machines that can do just about anything we want, it won't be barter because you get what you need or want without thinking about what you need to do or trade to get what you want, as soon as you slip into that mentality you have defeated yourself.

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"Live and let live"
 58yrs • M •
RAINBOWGP is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
YES, A THOUSAND TIMES YES!!!!!!!!!
RESOURCE - BASED ECONOMY IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD, ALL OTHER SYSTEMS FAILED. WE NEED A NEW SYSTEM IN THE WORLD, AND THAT SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE MONEYLESS, TO AVOID ANOTHER DISASTER.
THE EARTH AND ALL HER RESOURCES BELONGS TO ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. IF WE SHARE IT RIGHT, ALL WILL HAVE ENOUGH, MORE THAN ENOUGH.

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"NEVER GIVE UP"
 31yrs • M •
lets see is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
i believe Yes and i believe its necessary but ill get to that point later. Some things i want to point out. 1. someone said no cus "cus = because" people work for money and they don't want to be working and having others require the benefits of their labor . I have a ? for you, when you were a baby did you get your own food, build our own shelter, change your own diaper, did you provide for your self hmmm? or was something else "parent" working for your behalf... now ill even widen it more did you come up with the concept of the car, computer, air plain, refrigerator, idea of harnessing electricity... of course you didn't guess what your entire life you have been requiring the benefits of previous generations of labor and shared knowledge lmao. here's an easy example. Big jet air plains are not a revenue maker but guess what people knew this was a greater form of travel so the tax's went in to make it happen so all of us to travel in plains. #2 the topic of Communism is irrelevant to the discussion of society without money and here's why " Communism use's MONEY" OMG ... i know its a shocker... so its irreverent and doesn't show or prove anything about a society without money "FACT"... #3 people will lose there identities in other words what makes me me is all the shit i own. i don't even want to show why that is the stupidest thing iv ever heard "sry" i guess that means animals have know personality's. #4 "human nature" we are inherently evil, greedy, power hungry, no matter the environment around us. hmmm why don't we put this to test. two groups of people are put on an island. 1 island educated to believe in cooperation, also this island has an abundance of food, water, shelters, technology..., the others been educated to believe in competition has scarcity of food, water, shelters, tech... and see what happens. Really whats going to be the outcome think about it . and now A little FACT people that grow up in a more resource deprived environment commit more crimes WOW but if we all got this little bad boy in us then the rates should be the same """maybe the environment shapes the evil, greedy, power hungry, crimes...""" A note to leave this with a ? Do you believe that humanity will be able to continue to survive if war, pollution, crimes, racism, segregation of wealth continues. That's whats been happening for ages under the monetary system i think we should at least experiment with new idea's, we may just find something better.

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"were all in an interconnected system "earth"so we got to figure a way to work it out, or all thats gonna be left is a big pile of sh*t"
 41yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Cainchild is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Everyone working for the greater good sounds nice. Depends on what you call the greater good. I am sure most rich people would tell you that them being rich is for the greater good. Human beings are just too self serving, egocentric etc...
We could, and it's been suggested just put a certain amount of GDP toward certain goals, reduce patents on scientific research and products to 5 years and so on. This still hasn't happened though, because it doesnt serve to profit anyone. This is the oldest story in civilization probably.

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"Fear is the emotion that prevents us from doing thing we shouldn't have thought of to begin with."
 71yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that cswriter is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Sparta did not have money. The governing power of Sparta, determined people's needs and provided for the people. There was no individual choice, so the governing power could exercise complete control over citizens.

When the Persians invaded, the Athenians imitated Sparta, by creating a city/state requiring all males participate in government and also war. This is how they were able to create the naval force that was able to defeat the Persians. After creating this naval force, they were able to demand tribute from all the city /states needing their protection, and this made Athens rich.

Athens used the riches to rebuild Athena's temple and to build a university, creating paid government jobs for the landless people, and these people could use their money any way they pleased. The people of Athens could learn whatever they wanted to learn and do whatever they pleased, as long as they had earned the money for it.

In Sparta, when men came of age they began living in the barracks and did not leave until they were dead or retired. No money, no choices.

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"Only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended."
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Dancid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
So one recession and half a decade later, have your thoughts changed about that notion?

Good response Cswriter. I think the real question is: what would replace money? The answer, to me, seems unfathomable. The currency we have gives us the ability to make unique choices, and has a relatively universal value. You can't take away 'money' without eliminating currency, and then forbidding that anything has value (cause barter would only replace currency) and in the process ending the the ability to posses material goods, except for what the collective is entitled; which historically means whatever the party, or the ruling think you need. We aren't there yet, and I hope we never are. Homosapiens are not naturally inclined to collectives, but rather through associations, and family. So I guess I'm saying, eliminating money is as good as eliminating wealth (or any worldly goods); otherwise it's not plausible... short of becoming the borg. Do you guys really want to live like that? In such an inexplicably inoffensive world, that doing anything on a whim, or simply putting a good idea to work, could cause trouble for someone, somewhere (or for the collective) We saw what happened in the Soviet Union after glasnost: the most educated society on Earth couldn't express free thought..and were utterly useless in respects to progress--so along came the policy of glasnost...and the soviet people tasted free thought, and idea. Many consider it one of the largest triggers of the fall. Humanity inherently is like a spark: depending on the conditions, it could be just the thing, or a castastrophy. Wtihout this spark, we would stagnate, and probably go mental. With it, for better or worse, is what makes us mandkind.

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"Draw from your past, but do not let your past draw from you."
[  Edited by Dancid at   ]
 48yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Adam Seth God is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
in short... which is characteristically uncharacteristic of me... ask anyone


in short...

Yes, society would be far removed from the current realities... if there were no monetary system whatsoever... no money or standard for exchange

it would also be better off if every thing we did to another caused us the immediate repercussions...

like when you hurt someone you hurt

or more exaggerated form...

if you killed someone you died...

the only exchange that would replace the exchange of goods and services or some monetary value judgement system...

is probably

this equity.... level playing field...

otherwise we humans open ourselves to the laws of the jungle,
no just the laws of nature

laws of nature are not identical to the laws of the jungle...

I've noticed that most animals fear us or are at least more trepedacious than we are...

the snakes rattle, the lioaness growls, the lion roars....

but all of them have a

"LEAVE ME THE F'.... ALONE"
language

so leave it alone....

no money? really?

come on

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"\\\"The Empty Vessel Makes The Most Noise\\\" - Shakespear"
 57yrs • M •
bigmatlock is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
I just read everyone posts on this topic and are left still thinking that society needs to change.
I think for the most part people agree. There are still plenty of people who can't get the principle of absolutely no money, but they are allowed their opinions.
The only way I see this ever being resolved is removing the parts in the brain that are Greed, Evil , Power , competitiveness against each other etc . ie a genetic shift in the human evolution that removes those traits entirely.
The other way is with a big stick but we the collective people of this world has tried that already. Ants and Bees work together for theie common good, they have no money, they can't get any more than the can to survive, different ants and bees have different tasks and it all works. The only reason they do this is they don't have a brain big enough to reason or to want.

I would love to start again from first principles but with the knowledge we have now. Everyone does there bit to make the world better. Those that don't , die off, only the strong survive. Those that cheat / steal get removed from society, it wont take long to learn you can't cheat/ steal as you would just starve in no time.

Everyone takes what they need from those that work in other occupations, everyone gets educated, those that don't want to do the jobs that no one else wants..
We would still support the ill , the old and the young, everyone still does what they want work wise and love to do job wise, thise that don't love what they do now find something they would rather do as long as they just do.... the world just grows on itself as we improve.
If we run out of food or goods then people die. that simple, you are going to do it one day anyway...

We have just got to get rid of the greed...and we also don't need those people that job it is to quantify the greed.

It is quite amazing that I even contemplate this evolution through strength, as I have a prolapsed disc in my back, so can't do what I love. And what I love is work. But I can always be the dreamer....

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 28yrs • M •
greenwest is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
"But the human race can always be counted on for being selfish and pro-active."

This is essentially the point.

But the human race can always be counted on for being selfish and pro-active. Because of the need for money.

A no money society will rise in America. Sooner than you all think.

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 40yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that deadcitystreets is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
i think that without putting a price on valuable commodities we wouldn't be able to put a moral or spiritual value on life. money can't buy love, or compassion or friendships or intelligence or any number of things.

so yeah, money's great to have but there are things in life that are alleged to be more important, and you can't put a price on them.

lets face it life may be full of conflict with authorities, neighbours, friends and family, but you can't buy their input - believe me i've tried to buy peoples' favour and it doesn't work, they just hate you all the more for having the means to purchase things they DON'T aspire to.

what i mean to say is money allows you to get out of dodge, but it won't make you any, AND I MEAN ANY friends.

something else is one man's dirt is another man's treasure, and another man's glitter and gold is a threat to the wicker man's soul.

a society without a means to exchange, it won't work.

a society whereby a childs' education is compulsory and comprehensive, is a booming economy.

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"therapy, or more love to give?"
 56yrs • M •
geobaez63 is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
How about we give everyone $1,000,000,000 a year? We assign value to money but is is what we agree to be held to. If everyone worked at what they do best and were paid a million to do it, wouldn't we be better off as a society? I mean really, it is just paper folks, it's not really real...

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 35yrs • M •
EOTW2 is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Limited resources and a large populations necessitates money.

There is no way to get around it, except...

A public database.

Let's say everything is free but still limited. What we can do is monitor peoples transactions by linking their identity with every single thing they take. Everything would be recorded into a database and anyone would be able to check what they took.

For example, you go to the grocery store and take 100 dozen eggs which would be logged into your database.

When the store owner discovers that his inventory of eggs are depleted he checks his database to discover that Mr. Smith took 100 dozen eggs. The store owner lets the computer decide of Mr. Smith was warranted in taking 100 dozen eggs as if he was if he were heading the attempt on the new world's record for the largest omelet. If not, then the computer would decide that Mr. Smith is in violation of taking too many eggs and not leaving enough for others.

So if we want to do without money then we must do without privacy. Every single detail of our lives would have to be recorded into a database.

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 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Timeless1 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
No need to have money if we were perfect people

everyone wants to look cooler or better than the next guy so even if there isn't money people are gonna use other stuff like women or jewelry

cant get rid of money before we get rid of greed

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 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Dancid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Ants and Bees work together for theie common good, they have no money, they can't get any more than the can to survive, different ants and bees have different tasks and it all works. The only reason they do this is they don't have a brain big enough to reason or to want.



We've done the whole patriarchy thing.. remember the tribe elders, then the monarchs. I don't understand what collectivist aspects you glean from insect colonies, because they are subjugated.

You have arrived at another point though: the only way humans can exist as a collective is by massive reeducation resulting in a collective of individuals so non-offensive, they're less productive than the crumbling wall they can't seem to rebuild. For a few altruistic idealists, it's enough for them to do good, but for the vast majority of society, a lack of incentive or at least return is redundant--that doesn't even included the greedy opportunistic go-get-ers that have a terrible habit of creating wealth through business. You see, there is no finite amount of wealth; it's relative, it's in the ground, it's subsequent to the next brilliant idea... greedy people annoy me too, but this mindset of them hording wealth is so terribly skewed.

Okay sure.. if you live in Mexico, in what is essentially an oligarchy, and opportunity is monopolized by the wealthy and greedy--by all means grab a gun. On a lighter note, they're finally doing something about it... you know, we should have sent the Occupy protesters to Mexico for a month.. so as to gain some perspective on "crony capitalism"

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"Draw from your past, but do not let your past draw from you."
Would society be better without money? - Page 6
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