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Why Condone Fruitless Deviant Behavior? - Page 6

User Thread
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that St. Jimmy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
If homosexuality is a choice, (not based on a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality)


If homosexuality is a choice, then it must be a choice that anyone is capable of making, so..

YOU MAKE IT!

yes, i dare you to make it. Try and sit down for just ten minutes and decide to be attracted to the same sex.

Furthermore, you shouldn't discriminate against or criticise homosexuality for any reason. It is wrong to discriminate against someone becasue they have a different skin color right? Then it should also be wrong to discriminate against someone based on their sexual preference.

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"He who does not question is lost."
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angel Of Death is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The thing is, no one has any right to say if it's right or wrong, the only confirmed thing is that it is unnatural, which is niether degrading nor uplifting. Even if this humble assumption is disregarded, u need 2 take out that screw outta ur head

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"I'll heal ur woundz I'll set u free, I m jesus christ on xtacy"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
the only confirmed thing is that it is unnatural


Stimulation of the genitals by any physical contact from any object is not unnatural, it is what they are designed to do.

There is no written clarification that distinguishes any sexual act as unnatural, merely socially unnacceptable.

There is quite a difference. Just for clarification.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angel Of Death is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Every single organ of the human body has a purpose. The purpose of a penis is therfore that it can enter a vagina of a women, to produce children. If the man decides to put his Johnson inside her aas or mouth, that is unnatural, that is not what the organs were desighned to do.

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"I'll heal ur woundz I'll set u free, I m jesus christ on xtacy"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angel Of Death is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
my tongue was desighned to taste, be it an apple or an ass, now if I decide that I wan't to play badmionton with it-that defeats the purpose a little bit, it is unnatural.

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"I'll heal ur woundz I'll set u free, I m jesus christ on xtacy"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
that is unnatural, that is not what the organs were desighned to do.


That is one purpose of one aspect of its design. You are right to say that is a purpose of it, but if you say that purpose is exclusive and definitive, you would be mistaken.

It also serves as waste disposal does it not? Sex acts and desires are also not purely existing for the purpose of procreation, nor are they exclusive to gender boundaries, which is further supported by the fact that sex acts don't even require interaction with others oustide of one's self.

Which none is unnatural or against purpose.

I argue that there is nothing a human can do that is unnatural, for we are natural and of the natural order, as for your specifics I think I adequately pointed out that both sex and sex organs have more than one purpose behind their designs, at least allowing for the possibility of perfectly natural and purposeful acts and behaviors oustide of what some are defining and calling exclusively natural acts, behaviors, and purposes.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
my tongue was desighned to taste, be it an apple or an ass, now if I decide that I wan't to play badmionton with it-that defeats the purpose a little bit, it is unnatural.


That is the job of taste buds ON your tongue, not your tongue itself.

The tongue is also the strongest muscle in your body for its size, and is the only lubricated free roaming muscle used to manipulate foreign objects within the mouth, even a badminton racket. So I disagree.

And if people of all genders and sexual preferrences weren't able to have that extra back up avenue for genital manipulation, I'm guessing the divorce rates would be even higher.

You think God or random chaos haven't managed multi-purpose creations?

Is it unnatural to change, adapt, or accomplish new feats?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angel Of Death is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
hmmm, ya interesting point...like frogs perhaps.
so then initially though the penis's sole function may have been to produce children from women perhaps, now it may have a variety of functions. So then, ok agreed, no organ has a fixed sole purpose, and if it appears to have, it is just a result of society. So then being gay is natural? I think the word 'natural' is misleading somewhat, because according to ur logic, everything that is possible is then natural? Killing, sticking plants up ur aas, raping-wrong or right is besides the point, but they are natural? hmmm, I think so, killing is natural for example perhaps. So does this imply that 'right' is something else and 'natural' is something else?

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"I'll heal ur woundz I'll set u free, I m jesus christ on xtacy"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
So does this imply that 'right' is something else and 'natural' is something else?



Oh, that "right" is something different most definitely. Right and wrong are relative terms, subject to individual or group perspectives.

And when trying to define what is good or bad for nature, we cannot, because though we are of nature, we do not understand it as a whole, nor its intents or purposes, perhaps plans, God's plans if you will.

Because life and death, pleasure and pain are natural, none of which are concepts we fully understand, we cannot judge anything as right or wrong, good or bad in nature, because all the things that we label either way, all seem to be natural, repetitive (cyclic), and persistent in existing regardless to our lack of understanding.

That would be like saying because we don't understand or like something, that it is unnatural.

And it all makes sense in terms of a seemingly "natural" "need" for balance.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 48yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Methuzula is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
To break the "social contract" requires on to reject the morality expressed by the social order. A society's moral code organizes individual relationship to the community.

As a fully functioning member of society, one is obligated to make certain contributions to ensure its endurance, vitality and growth.

With a(limited) exception in the case of the hermit, all social dropouts continue to benefit from the existence of the environment created by a society to which the do not contribute.

Productivity, combining efforts with resouces of all kinds yielding positive results, can be narrowly defined within any particular society. Anti-social behavior is generally considered a detriment to society and is counter-productive.

At a certain extreme of trespass, the response to social deviance is always to hamper an individual's capacity to impact society on a large scale through their deviance from it.

The "good" of the group or whole ultimately restricts certain freedoms for an indiviual. Like the freedom to kill. The restraints are both self imposed and through organized controls.

Social engineering is effecting change or altered states from previous condition or norm, Redirection. Dialogue is required between adherents of the old standard and proponents of the new.

Continual dialogues of this type cause societal "norms" to appear fluid, as changing things, (sometimes rapidly yet also mostly gradual.

Surrogate parents and artificial insemination are not natural forms of reproduction, even where heterosexuals are concerned. Manipulations of nature however possible do not qualify them as "natural". They're outgrowths of high culture, science and civilization.

The expressed and implied contract, (agreement/ commitment) for conduct as a member of any society is found in its title or catagory, (i.e. homosexual). It's a common term found in psychology and shouldn't be deemed bigoted or exclusionist or unfounded or invalidated out of convienience.

Picking at words unecessarily is a cloak for avoiding the point.

Communism cannot produce capitalism, but they cooperate as parts of a world community. This does not mean they are equals and therefore part of the same social group or society.

Homosexuals can produce heterosexual offspring and vice versa. I do not need to "believe negatively" towards any group, (or positively for that matter), to simply state that:

One social order is at variance with the other.

As before I'll state that the two are not diametrically opposed to one another, but do function as distinctly seperate societies.

Which is to say, "...an enduring and cooperating social group whose members have developed organized patterns of relationships through interaction with one another..."

<<<<<<<<<OR>>>>>>>>&
gt;

"... a broad grouping of people having common traditions, institutions, and collective activities and interests."

Reading this Webster's definition shows a society can be limited to certain members, or be a broader group which includes the smaller group.

Each society is grouped based on what they have in common. So mainstream, (heterosexual majority), society can be grouped with the homosexual only along lines of common interests and collective activities.

So overall "Society" does include both sexualities but is not the specific societies to which I'm refering, which I believe to be opposed to one another and battling for hegemony.

Given the advances of science and culture, homosexuality is currently poised to offer a more complete replacement for heterosexuality.

Children can be produced, families created and with modern egalitarianism in place the taboo (or stigmas if you will) removed.

Making homosexuality an increasingly viable alternative. Effectively eliminating an argument based on reproductivity.

However, to say it is productive of the heterosexual (even the beastial <for a laugh> ) society would be a contradiction.

I think once you accept the seperate society concept, it will be easy to see that I'm merely stating that the homosexual is presenting an "alternative" society.

For heterosexual society to be inclusive here, is to include a formula for its own demise. So, by this logic I queried, "Why Condone what is fruitless?"

By the way some segregation is necessary to sustain societies, however, in the wrong context has been destructive and inhumane.

Some discrimination is considered healthy behavior and is expected.

My "beliefs" are not unfounded, you refuse to acknowledge my views as logical and free from hate, anger or emotion.

Also homosexuals choos to "opt" out of society's majority thinking choosing "self-segregation".

Like I've said before, sometimes the allure of the sense of individuality one experiences by being a member of any minority group is a strong catalyst for the onset of one identifying as a homosexual.

What you actually are is what you actually should be or you would be different. A chair makes a good dance floor, but as efficency is concerned it is most effective as a chair.

If it's a genetic prediliction which causes the altered behavior, are you equating it with mental retardation? Beyond the individual's control?

Also no one is suggesting barbarism or erradication. That would be beneath me, and quite uncivilized.

Leftwood, you have decided to thus far ignore key points and definitions out of convience for your point.

You may argue other's into corners but our discourse requires you to admit that there is more than one, (numerous), society here in America and all over the world.

You've based most of your response to me on the supposition that there is only one Society of which we are all members.

The lack of intellectual integrity, and the pronouncements that follow it are apalling and unworthy of the pursuit of this or any subject matter.




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"You are affected by 3 generations and you affect 3 generations, and every third generation a major change takes place in the family."
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
So overall "Society" does include both sexualities but is not the specific societies to which I'm refering, which I believe to be opposed to one another and battling for hegemony.



How about you explain then what specific societies you are referring to. I think you will find that groups of people wanting to be exclusive in their beliefs and ways aren't as exlcusive as they or you think.

quote:
Given the advances of science and culture, homosexuality is currently poised to offer a more complete replacement for heterosexuality.

Children can be produced, families created and with modern egalitarianism in place the taboo (or stigmas if you will) removed.

Making homosexuality an increasingly viable alternative. Effectively eliminating an argument based on reproductivity.



Do you feel homosexuality threatens the existance of hetersosexuality? Its the only way off hand I can make sense of your point which ends with this statement.

quote:
However, to say it is productive of the heterosexual (even the beastial <for a laugh> ) society would be a contradiction.



If so, I disagree. I would like some clarification to this because currently I'm not sure I understand your meaning.

quote:
I think once you accept the seperate society concept, it will be easy to see that I'm merely stating that the homosexual is presenting an "alternative" society.



But you must clarify, because I do not live in a segregated society. I live in America, where we respect other's right to live how they choose or are biologically mandated, short of harming others.

Your "alternative" society concept is flawed. You have made assumptions about what an original, evolved, and even majority society is.

Even now you call hetero a majority. You don't know this. Nor did you specify if it was your hetero exclusive or the hetero inclusive society, which would be a very important distinction, as I can't see how intolerant heteros could possibly allow tolerant heteros. Might infect the youth.

If you think you or anyone else knows how many homos exist or have ever existed, you are probably wrong. If you add the class of bi or I don't give a shit-sexuality, then you really don't know how many of any sexuality. And this is ever.

This leaving little room for such assumptions.

quote:
For heterosexual society to be inclusive here, is to include a formula for its own demise.



For the demise of hetero exclusiveness perhaps, not heterosexuality.

quote:
So, by this logic I queried, "Why Condone what is fruitless?"


Again, flaw, no fruitlessness is evident, again, flaw, your asserstion that acceptance of homosexuality equates to the demise of heterosexuality is erroneous, theory at best, paranoia at worst. There is no reason to come to such a conclusion.

quote:
My "beliefs" are not unfounded, you refuse to acknowledge my views as logical and free from hate, anger or emotion.


Don't get ahead of yourself, unless you quote what I said, I cannot adequately clarify or possibly tell you that my point was not in direct response to your beliefs, past me saying I'm not sure I know what your beliefs even are.

If you are saying homo is threatening to the existance of hetero, then I will say your possistion is unfounded.

quote:
Also homosexuals choos to "opt" out of society's majority thinking choosing "self-segregation".



Do not assume to know "majority" thinking, nor homosexuals choice of anything, let alone their ability to choose their sexuality, and they are not self segregating if they say I am what I am where I am, the only segregation comes from those saying, you cannot and will not where I am or at all.

quote:
Like I've said before, sometimes the allure of the sense of individuality one experiences by being a member of any minority group is a strong catalyst for the onset of one identifying as a homosexual.


Just as the allure of being accepted and blending into the "majority", even if promoting bigotry fear or hatred, knowingly or otherwise.

People rebel, I doubt homosexuality is product of rebellion, let alone overly influenced by it.

quote:
If it's a genetic prediliction which causes the altered behavior, are you equating it with mental retardation? Beyond the individual's control?



No more than heterosexuality. You're assuming the behavior is altered or unnatural.

Is sanity within one's control?

quote:
Also no one is suggesting barbarism or erradication. That would be beneath me, and quite uncivilized.



You might not be, but many others are.

quote:
You may argue other's into corners but our discourse requires you to admit that there is more than one, (numerous), society here in America and all over the world.



You know from you finally reading the dictionary that I can indeed also say the world is one society.

As for what else you are talking about, I dare you to classify any society as a simplistic generalization and to prove that anyone and especially everyone "within it" holds to it, thereby making it the "segregated" society that it and you claim it to be.

Past that, from the loose based sub-society aspect of the word, you need to provide the specifics you want attention given, because every time I try to break down societies, they all end up with the same thing, a bunch of different people living similarly under varying cirucmstances, creating all the differences we find in "differing societies".

And finally...

Homosexuality and heterosexuality are not societies, they are gender based classifications of sexuality, which is a part of all societies.

They are equally existing realities. And again, I dare you to find any "society" that does not have homosexuality within it, whether it promotes it or not, or even whether it knows it or not.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 48yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Methuzula is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
google "census homosexual"

you's see your points are indefensable.

you escape reality

you solidify my positions

you ignore and avoid points by questioning definitions, then when they are undeniably provided you never return to the point.

you depend on myths about homosexual population
actual facts deny you

thank you for showing that the inclusiveness and membership in that society results in un-productive thoughts not grounded in reality

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"You are affected by 3 generations and you affect 3 generations, and every third generation a major change takes place in the family."
 48yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Methuzula is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
google "census homosexual"

you's see your points are indefensable.

you escape reality

you solidify my positions

you ignore and avoid points by questioning definitions, then when they are undeniably provided you never return to the point.

you depend on myths about homosexual population
actual facts deny you

thank you for showing that the inclusiveness and membership in that society results in un-productive thoughts not grounded in reality

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"You are affected by 3 generations and you affect 3 generations, and every third generation a major change takes place in the family."
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
google "census homosexual"

you's see your points are indefensable.



What point would that be, that evidence supports that homosexuality has always existed and has even been openly accepted in many cultures throughout history?

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3359.htm

Did I ever try to give numbers of how many, no, did I say that no one knows, yes, do you think this Canadian census changes that? If so, you are wrong.

http://www.le-national.com/Worldnat/us-census-2001.html

"The census count is not an official or complete tally of homosexuals since the form does not ask about sexuality. So a gay person living alone could not be identified on a form as gay.

In addition, concerns over confidentiality and discrimination likely caused an undercount, analysts said, despite campaigns by advocacy groups for same-sex unmarried partners to disclose their relationships on the census."

------------------------------------

So what is undeniably proven?

And is not the topic whether or not homosexuality is fruitless or not? Whether it should be condoned, condemned or none of our business?

So please tell me what it is that you are talking about, as you did not specify any point in your post.

quote:

thank you for showing that the inclusiveness and membership in that society results in un-productive thoughts not grounded in reality



You are in that society moron, and you are displaying what you are claiming to be bitching about. Get a clue.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that St. Jimmy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
you depend on myths about homosexual population
actual facts deny you


And these "actual" facts would be? (info from fox news, the bush administration, the catholic church doesn't count)

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"He who does not question is lost."
Why Condone Fruitless Deviant Behavior? - Page 6
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