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Why Condone Fruitless Deviant Behavior? - Page 4

User Thread
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that ekimup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"So all of this is because you are trying to say that homosexuality should not exist, is unhealthy and dangerous because it does not produce children.

That is retarded. "

--------------------------------------------------

..its intercourse which does not produce offspring.( or recognize such an ability within itself.)

this what makes it so fruitless.


any of the empty words you've tossed into your posts which are..blantant opinions.--should be directed toward yourself.

you have not shown me that homosexuality is a healthy-existence...because of the sole purpose it is "homosexuality".

You've merely stated (or unintentionally proven ) that it is an expressive outlet and a preference. Which leaves it less of an outlet than consensual heterosex (used for other purposes than to procreate.) Aside from applicating ones emotions into a sex act which does involve reproduction-homosexuality also does not involve intercourse.


and if homosexuality is merely a sex act-and as mundane as maturbation or a BJ.. ( which masturbation is self induced ) Than it is "not an unchosen application of attraction or love. It is a psychological preference. -Given heterosex is instinctive, and exists because it tends to flourish the world It is understandable for such a persons psyche to follow such an instinctive path. Which does provide a "healthy outlet" in expressing ones own emotions. Although the reason and emotion(intention) behind the act, is bad.. the act itself is healthy and beneficial. On either side of the spectrum.(because its an outlet.)



"Fruitless deviant behavior"
-------------------------------------------

well..i understand fruitful is beneficial and a good thing. So behavior deviating from a good thing..is ultimately a bad thing.

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"In this world, we are never lacking. Only losing what we have in hope of gaining what we dont."
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that ekimup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Homosexuality comes into question not based solely on society-but existence. A healthy one at that. Homosexuality is niether "healthy" or "unhealthy" solely because "it exists".

I do fully agree, that until we know more about why homos are homos..we should demonstrate a certain level of compassion. Afterall, they are human. But this only seems to be a problem within their mind. Whether it be chemical imbalances, or PTSD..w/e it is..- it has nothing to do with the natural "stimulus region".that these people are inept to derive sex from.

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"In this world, we are never lacking. Only losing what we have in hope of gaining what we dont."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
But this only seems to be a problem within their mind.


Where do you keep getting the notion that homosexuality is in any way harmful or negative? It is completely unfounded and displays irrational bias to the subject.

quote:
..its intercourse which does not produce offspring.( or recognize such an ability within itself.)

this what makes it so fruitless.


We already know that, quit repeating yourself, it doesn't matter, your stating a fact that no one is arguing.

There is nothing wrong with fruitless sex as most people practice this for various reasons.

Nor does this make it deviant behavior. And the only way it can be considered a deviant behavior is in respect to some people's opinions, but by no natural laws.

quote:
any of the empty words you've tossed into your posts which are..blantant opinions.--should be directed toward yourself.



Can't if I don't know what you are talking about.

quote:
you have not shown me that homosexuality is a healthy-existence...because of the sole purpose it is "homosexuality".



Its a sex life that meets desires and needs just like hetersexuality, it appears perfectly healthy, no more dysfunctional or physically harmful than hetero sex. Your bias is from popular myths and misconceptions propagated by intentional propaganda.

quote:
that it is an expressive outlet and a preference.


I cannot say it is a preferrence, that is a term I did not create but is used to classify sexuality.

quote:
Which leaves it less of an outlet than consensual heterosex


What, how do you figure, what diminished in its ability to be an outlet?

quote:
Given heterosex is instinctive, and exists because it tends to flourish the world It is understandable for such a persons psyche to follow such an instinctive path.


Your making biased assumptive statements again. Your dismissing the probability and claimed homosexual instinct, most gays I've talked to say they did not choose to be gay, so where you would keep getting the notion I don't know, nor do I understand why you keep repeating it and defending it.

That is why this is such a rediculous repetitive conversation.

You ask for proof of health when there is no reliable proof of the lack of it, you ask for purpose get probabilities, as no one knows for certain, and dismiss them, we don't even know if humans have a purpose so such questions are irrelevant.

quote:
Although the reason and emotion(intention) behind the act, is bad..


Unfounded bias opinion.

quote:
So behavior deviating from a good thing..is ultimately a bad thing.



There, thank you for expressing your flawed logic. That is untrue as a definitive. There is good and bad in all things, good and bad are relative.

And your negative opinion of a deviation is an unwarranted and irrational expression of fear of change, difference, and things you don't understand. And more specifically, likely just the expression of influence from friends and family.

Deviation and change are natural and exist for whatever purpose everything exists, we don't know what that is.

quote:
well..i understand fruitful is beneficial and a good thing.


So its changed from bearing offspring, fine.

Sexuality, since this would be the topic if not procreation, is not defined by gender, it is defined by acts of a sexual nature.

If a healthy sexual life is a good thing, then both hetero and homo sexuality are good things.

And though procreation is irrelevant to many aspects of sex, if procreation as well as not procreating are both good things and have their place, then any concerns about procreation being affected by sexuality are unsound.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that ekimup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
im so tired.

i've had to repeat me self..constantly with the same point.

this back and forth..is unbecoming.

the empty words(which are words that do not serve/or benefit the point your attempting to make). Such as refering to myself as a moron..and other numerous implications you have made of the statements/facts/concepts and ideas --i -have stated.

i've provided sufficient evidence to support my concept. Its your decision of whether or not you want accept it.

i have nothing more to add or say. Especially to someone who has forced me to repeat myself.

cut me down leftwood.claim i have nothing to say because i am wrong. -call it what you will.


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"In this world, we are never lacking. Only losing what we have in hope of gaining what we dont."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Homosexuality is no more fruitless than non procreative hetero sex, nor is it any more deviant than non procreative sex, oral, anal, or general sex act, nor is it dangerous or unhealthy as an act.

Your other claim based on other's claims was that the lifestyle was unhealthy for themselves and perhaps others as well as a general detrement to society.

You or someone mentioned the study of 20 less year lifespan.

The problem is that this does not provide a reason why their life span might be shorter, you simply assume, because of personal bias on the issue, that it is because it is a disease like state of being.

What no one has responded on is my point of the treatment of gays in our society past and present.

We are talking social persecution on the level of KKK and Nazis. As some of those groups themselves persecuted gays.

We are talking parents treating their own children like, well, unlike they should is they expect a "well adjusted" child. With worst case scenarios the likes of any terrible abuse, but with common scenarios including parental emotional abuse that results in higher rates of dysfunctional children and degraded health and life spans.

And along with this is having relgions against you. That can and does, and is the main source that I've seen of condemnation against homosexuality.

With religions come extremists, and when religions or even their loose interpretations classify something as abominable and unfit for existance...

Then, to top it off, not only do you usually, especially in distant and recent past, have family against you, religion against you, you even had the government against you. Like the propaganda I mentioned.

What result do you think this has on the health and life span of the gay community.

Yet no comment. Empty words.

So like I said, I think what you said was wrong because you have no reasonable evidence showing how or why homosexuality is unhealthy, while ignoring my point of the only dangerous thing about it is people's bias notion that it needs to not exist.

You call my words empty, and the emotional rantings and insults are, but my points are not.

No more empty then yours, I simply believe yours are flawed for reasons you won't even acknowledge, you simply repeat yourself instead, usually going totally out of context and now even blame me for you repeating yourself.

Interesting.

Again, I don't claim you have nothing to say by saying I disagree with you.

But you have explained to me only why homosexuality is fruitless and different from what you think should be and that you don't understand it but think it is bad and unhealthy.

But not shown how or why it is anything you claim or feel. You just say it is.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that ekimup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Ok. i will apologize. Do understand, that it seems i have misinterpreted the definition of the word "homosexual".

i "assumed"( which clearly was foolish) that sex implied intercourse...and intercourse productivity.( or physically natural "sex" Which is more likely to permit a more natural purpose and fruitful existence of such a thing.

but in light of "sex acts'..which are merely hormonally driven.(by the same hormones which nature induced to allow us to reproduce) That are fruitless in the traditional... "natural sense."(as far as sex-reproduction.)

I see that homosexuality is not fruitless to those who are homosexual.

..but homosexuality is fruitless to heterosexuals. As heterosexuality is "not" fruitless to homos..because heterosexuality benefits and permits humanity.

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"In this world, we are never lacking. Only losing what we have in hope of gaining what we dont."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
..but homosexuality is fruitless to heterosexuals. As heterosexuality is "not" fruitless to homos..because heterosexuality benefits and permits humanity.


More than one of us have stated ways homosexuals can be beneficial to heterosexuals, as I stated before, homosexuals can be attributed being just as fruitful and productive, even reproductive, in society, making them no less fruitful to existance, society, or heterosexuals.

And since they are different in a sense, it is just as safe to say that they can actually add something that heterosexuality cannot, and vice versa, this does not include reproduction though as you keep inferring, because they both reproduce just fine.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that ekimup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I apologize again for forcing you to elaborate on this subject.

but again, how do homosexuals "reproduce"?
and if "they" do-can it be contributed to homosexuality?

heterosexuality--given that the reproduction is done through a heterosexual act.


Also..i'd like to know how homosexuality is beneficial to heterosexuals.

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"In this world, we are never lacking. Only losing what we have in hope of gaining what we dont."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
but again, how do homosexuals "reproduce"?
and if "they" do-can it be contributed to homosexuality?

heterosexuality--given that the reproduction is done through a heterosexual act.


Homosexuals reproduce by either heterosexual sex, which does not change their sexuality, or the various other means of reproduction available today through modern science and medicine.

You are stuck on the notion that homosexuals cannot reproduce, you are wrong, please stop basing your argument on procreation.

quote:
Also..i'd like to know how homosexuality is beneficial to heterosexuals.



How are heterosexuals beneficial to heterosexuals? And don't say reproduction, because they both do that.

I'm tired of repeating as well, they provide all the same benefits as heterosexuals, they can and do even reproduce. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Past that, its all theory, because again, the only benefits you have mentioned are reproduction, that's it.

Because we don't even know that human existance is beneficial to existance, as opposed to being a plague or virus.

So what we have decided is that what is most beneficial for human survival is some form of balance between adaptation, acceptance, and compassion, with progress, competition, and the survival of the fittest.

Homosexuality has survived. Our species has not died, nor can natural social tensions or proclamations of degredation be attributed to homosexuality any more than heterosexuality.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that ekimup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"You are stuck on the notion that homosexuals cannot reproduce, you are wrong, please stop basing your argument on procreation."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--

My argument is that heterosexuality is beneficial to homosexuality.-because it allows them the ability to reproduce
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--

"How are heterosexuals beneficial to heterosexuals? And don't say reproduction, because they both do that."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Heterosexuality is no more beneficial to heterosexuals, than homosexuality is beneficial to homosexuals.


again, you havent shown me how homosexuality benefits anyone who isnt gay..




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"In this world, we are never lacking. Only losing what we have in hope of gaining what we dont."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
again, you havent shown me how homosexuality benefits anyone who isnt gay..



Firstly, who says it has to?

And secondly, if you are going to say things like...

quote:
Heterosexuality is no more beneficial to heterosexuals, than homosexuality is beneficial to homosexuals.


Then I don't know what benefits you are talking about or even why you are asking. Please clarify and be specific.

quote:
My argument is that heterosexuality is beneficial to homosexuality.-because it allows them the ability to reproduce



Hetero sex, not heterosexuality or the preferrence. Most don't prefer to do their particular jobs, but they do to exist. You have no reason for your questioning of the worth to you of something you don't agree with or understand, nor to question its place in the universe any more than your own.

Except curiosity which is fine, but negative dispositions that express a desire to rid something of its existance isn't exactly harmless.

I think you should spend a little more time on why you feel so strongly about it. You mentioned a perfectly good reason why you question it, its the desire to condemn that is of concern.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that ekimup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Firstly, who says it has to?
--------------------------------

mainly, it concerns me because it is a fruitless existence to those who are not within the construct of "homosexuality-or homosex". ( this is the way homosexuals limit/exclude themselves from the rest of society )

If it "has" to be this way,than correct you are-for this is the way it is. Heterosexuality and heterosex--are very beneficial. To either party with either sexual preference.

Also, you misunderstood my quote"Heterosexuality is no more beneficial to heterosexuals, than homosexuality is beneficial to homosexuals."

I was stating that preference is preference--and means the same to the "prefered".

heterosexuality/heterosex is beneficial to both..in that; it allows reproduction.

I dont understand how you can find flaw in my logic. What i really dont understand is why you would claim homosexuality to be a fruitfull existence(as fruitful as its counter-part/preference"heterosexuality" when it infact contadicts the very idea.

If they(by "they", i mean homosexuality and heterosexuality) were equal contributers to ..life/existence--i would not be so stern in questioning;its existence.


--i just realized..that you said:--"Our species has not died"

i believe you referenced homos while including yourself.

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"In this world, we are never lacking. Only losing what we have in hope of gaining what we dont."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
mainly, it concerns me because it is a fruitless existence to those who are not within the construct of "homosexuality-or homosex". ( this is the way homosexuals limit/exclude themselves from the rest of society )


What? Its not an exclusive society, your more than welcome to join, the only exclusions in society of homosexuals is from fearful and hateful heteros. They don't want to be excluded as far as I know, but again I'm not sure I fully understand your point or its relevance.

quote:
Heterosexuality and heterosex--are very beneficial. To either party with either sexual preference


Again, you just repeat yourself and expect others to know why what you are saying is true, I asked you to be specific about what the hell you are talking about in referrence to "beneficial".

quote:
heterosexuality/heterosex is beneficial to both..in that; it allows reproduction.

I dont understand how you can find flaw in my logic.


Its quite simple, heterosex does not require heterosexuality as a preferred life style, procreation is not limited to one or the other, period.

quote:
What i really dont understand is why you would claim homosexuality to be a fruitfull existence(as fruitful as its counter-part/preference"heterosexuality" when it infact contadicts the very idea.


It does not, they procreate, you have a thick skull.

quote:
If they(by "they", i mean homosexuality and heterosexuality) were equal contributers to ..life/existence--i would not be so stern in questioning;its existence.

Seriously, last time I'm saying it...

By what I can gather of your standards, to be "equal contributers to ..life/existence" they must procreate, they do, end of story.


--i just realized..that you said:--"Our species has not died"

i believe you referenced homos while including yourself.[quote]

If homosexuals were a separate species I could see how this might confuse you, however I said that homosexuals are known to have existed for a long time, and our SPECIES has survived even though homosexuality has existed.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that ekimup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Leftwood.-stop it. Honestly..quite avoiding the truth in what im telling you.

Beneficial-in that heterosexuality allows reproduction.

It benefits both parties-regardless of sexual preference. You cannot go around this truth--or claim it not to be true. Because it is..

Homosexuality is not "beneficial to all". Only to homosexuals.(i mean homosexuality leftwood..not kindness..or any other human emotion that is positive, being expressed to those outside of homosexuality.

First tell me how homosexuality can benefit those who are not homosexual. Because, i have shared thoroughly how heterosexuality benefits everyone.

Dont deter from the question. This is what our bickering has come down to..please tell me

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"In this world, we are never lacking. Only losing what we have in hope of gaining what we dont."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Makes sense to me. I've said it twenty times now too.

He's given two definitions of beneficial, homosexuals meet them both, what else can be said.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
Why Condone Fruitless Deviant Behavior? - Page 4
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