Is America playing with fire ?

Respect for civil liberties? Wha? Who?

No war is just, not even WWII, and its evil was just as coddled by big corporations and greed as all the rest, people fund these tyrants, or else they would simply be fanatic bums like Hitler was before he finally started to make it in politics and before he became the Furer with HIS burning of the Reischtag, his own manufactured terrorist event to issue in fear and martial law as people begged him to protect them.

This is why checks and balances are so imperitive, they are not an option. They are the only safeguard from tyranny, this includes and open, not secret, government.

If a government is doing something it can't tell the people about (which in our case is supposed to be the government, not the "representatives" ), they probably shouldn't be doing it.

McTex was talking about what the left forgets, what amazes me even more is when people do know of Osama and Hussein as being CIA assets, meaning WE paid them money for various activities and "alliances", but somehow it ceases to matter or hold any meaning. Talk about blind spots and short memories.

Who does it matter to that Prescott Bush had assets seized under Trading with the Enemy laws even after America finally got into the war? No one important enough apparently. Not to mention being exposed in plotting to assassinate the president and create a Hitler inspired fascist government.

Sure, I don't blame W for grandpappy's ways, but when those ways don't change, and corporate criminals reign, what is there left to not give blame for?

Who do we blame when the CIA and similar clandestine operations become the father of most and probably all actually threatening terrorist organizations, including Al-Qaeda.

I'll tell you, its not the president. Its we the people.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]

I completely disagree. Sometimes a peace is more evil then the war that would bring an end to it.

Peace for Hitler would have meant the murder of 10s of millions of Russians and the extermination of the Jews. Nevermind that all Europe would live under authoritarian right-wing regimes.

So I say again: a peace can be more evil then a war.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

"We are enforcing our values upon other cultures. This is arguably a good thing."

Who needs these values?
I have news for you brother...
America is not the world...
We don't want your values, they are already seeping into my country through the media and marketing, and we are worse for it. Why should America be the only country in the world to have an identity and why should we all bend to that identity?

"tell em jesus sent ya"

Alright fine, what if another country's values are:
- giving women no rights, giving them a life of submission, poverty and dependencee
- systematically mutilating women's sexual organs so that they become incapable of pleasure
- should sudanese arabs be allowed to exterminate their blacks because their values demand racial and religious purity

Do you think other countries should be allowed to have these sorts of values?

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

DT, did you know that America's government admitted to taking young poor women and taking out their uterus. Did you know that our world leaders have been solidly accused of raping children, even killing them, though only a few people not in the White house actually went to jail over it.

Do you think stealing the wealth of your own nation and that of the world and keeping it confined to a small population is just and honorable as people starve, not because they are lazy but because they are treated like slaves?

These are the actual values being pushed, not the rhetoric of known liars and thieves.

Women didn't have much in the way of rights here either till however long ago, and both sexism and racism is still a problem.

And the possitive steps that were established and finally tried to be given to all in terms of liberty is being destroyed on a daily basis.

We need to have America's values re-evaluated, or re-established before even thinking of imposing them on others.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

I am not saying we can screw anyone. I am saying that its hypocritical to say that we can *never* impose our values on others.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

Ah, I think I see, devil's advocate, I see no problem with wanting people to be good to people, I just can't say that that is what American foreign policy or even national policy prescribes.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

Certainly American policy is dubious right now... But then, no one can argue that the Iraq war is currently being PROFITABLE. No way will the oil we get out of Iraq ever be able to compensate the billions of dollars in aid and the one billion $ a week being spent in Iraq.

If the war isn't profitable, its hard to argue that the war was basically selfish. It can still be wrong, but I doubt it is selfish.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

Well there you go, a very good point and question, one I would hope everyone would ask.

But you are quite wrong, war is profitable, you are missinterpreting or confusing the country's debt with the Bush's or any other major corporation involved with the military industrial complex's profit.

You apparently are missing the oh so important point that anyone supplying anyone in a war with metal and weapons is profiting from it.

Haliburton is obviously oil based (but not exclusively), however The Carlyle Group is almost purely weapons manufacturing, who was involved with both the Bush's and Bin Ladens. Which Bush Sr. still is a rep. for.

Untill you understrand what a corporate criminal is and does this will sound like gibberish, education is the only thing that can help or save us.

Big corporations aren't known for helping people but getting ahead of others that they manage to be more ruthless than.

This is the only legacy the Bush's have to offer.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]

Its possible Bush is merely proving Marxism right and doing it for the motivations of his class. Certainly its a factor. But its not like he wants the US to fail, that would not bring him any good.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

I've been reading a few articles on the "illuminati" lately....and seems to me that since WW1 the world has slowly being integrating a "system" that is very simular to Hitlers.......we are losing our rights!....ironic isn't it...that a war was fought for freedoms.....only to see them slowly etched away....sometimes so slight that some don't even notice....

In the book of "revelations" (last book of the Bible) we were warned about some of the future events that we would see in our particular generation......

from my point of view....(after 22 years of studying propheciy) ....the stage is set for a World leader (antichrist) who will inevitably fool most people into thinking he is "God" himself....the question is...who could it be...

I don't know why I feel the way I do about the States....but I know for sure it's not because of the American people themselves....The polititians are the only ones responsible for that......protectionism has caused many countries...including Canada...(their closest neighbour) to be very suspicious of American policy makers.....The problem most countries have....is that they have become dependant on exports to the U.S. to uphold their our economies.....BIG MISTAKE.....now they have a BOSS....and the President of the U.S. knows the power he holds....will he continue to take advantage of his position....? And inccur further hatred? Or most important will he be able to hold it?

Revelations confirms...we will have a one world leader....one world economy......and a one world religious prophet..(false prophet) these three will gain much power...
(here's some homework for you.....what does the inscription on the back of the U.S. dollar bill actually mean?) inscibed around the pyramid?

The book of "Daniel" in the old testament goes into greater detail in regards to these "end time" events......

seek and you shall find.

Christians believe that through the saving grace (GRACE means- undeserved ...it's a gift) of their Lord Jesus.....they will be spared the coming wrath.....in an event called the "rapture" (taken away) Look in the Book of Thesalonians....(Bible) NT .....in there it talks about the dead rising first...and those who are yet STILL ALIVE...will rise to meet the Lord in the air....this is the rapture that will cause Christians to disappear in an instant....

Christians also are told that they are servants of Jesus...and are willingly used to hold back the "evil" in the world by the power of the Holy Spirit that is freely given at the time of conversion.

With this in mind....the rapture would mean the Holy Spirit is NO LONGER here to hold the "evil" back...all hell will break loose on that day....The most interesting thing Christians are told...is that this world leader (antichrist will NOT be revealed until the rapture occurs...other wise...Christian would recognize him and warn everyone who he is...

So...in the mean time...As Noah cried to the people before the flood....."get your souls in a safe place"...then world events will have new meaning....(the big picture)

"life is good! But sometimes the world gets in the way"

"I don't know why I feel the way I do about the States....but I know for sure it's not because of the American people themselves....The polititians are the only ones responsible for that......"

I understand and agree with this for the most part, though it may not be the direct fault of the people of America or the world, it is up to those people to realize what is happening and do something about it.

The dollar has the date 1776 and the phrase "A new order of the Ages" or something to that effect.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

How the hell do you know the revelations are intended for our generation?

Second, why do you believe an old book? It is in serious need of a revised and up-to-date new edition.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

An old book in serious need of revising? Ya right, lets rewrite all old text & manuscripts to reflect modern precepts & politically correct so not to offend anyone.
Wonder what Cantiberry Tales would be like? No more obsure languages to have to wade through as assigned reading . . great idea!

quote:

---

do you know the revelations are intended for our generation

---

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

Though I feel it presumptuous to assume revelations or whatever to be referring directly to now or very soon, because that has been said for over a thousand years, however, we are still marching ever closer, and closer than ever to a one world government.

And Bush's devout followers do treat him like a Holy savior, besides making me want to laugh and puke simultaneously, that doesn't bode well for where things are heading in relation to prophecy.

Which also means that others have a very different idea of what a Savior or Jesus is or was than I. Like McTex saying Jesus might actually be happy with the war in Iraq

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"