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The right to dress provocatively?

User Thread
 42yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that think4yourself is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The right to dress provocatively?
Here's a bit of a controvercial topic I've discussed with people in the past. A girl walks home from ______, dressed provocatively and is sexually assaulted by an unknown stranger who happens to see her walking by.

This is a very serious subject, and I get frustrated when talking to some people about it. In particular the people who insist that she had every right to dress anyway she wants, and that they would dress the same way -- that they wouldn't cave in and give up their right to dress any way they want because of some sicko. I agree that people have the right to dress any way they want. What I have a problem with is that ignoring the presence of criminals in society has a negative effect on your safety. I don't understand this view that you're somehow 'standing up to criminals' by not hiding from them. I don't think most criminals give two shits about whether or not you're scared of them. They're interested in whatever they want from you, be it money, property, or sex. Why not avoid it?? Why exercise rights that put your safety in jeopardy?

Any thoughts?

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 37yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that sjmf is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
You do have some points there about giving up your way to dress to make sure you are safe. But in the same sense there are some people that dress more conservatively then others and still get sexually assaulted. I think it is in the mind of the criminal. If the criminal has it set in his mind that he wants something from a woman, then he is going to get it. Although I have been told that most sexual assaulted woman were dressed more provocatively. I just think that it is set in the criminals mind whether they want it that bad or not!

And those are my thoughts!

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"I'm every where you don't want me to be!"
 43yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that rollergirl is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
hmm... i have a few thoughts on this topic. will try to keep them concise and coherent.

a) i don't think any girl *asks* to be sexually assaulted by dressing provocatively.

b) i do think that given the choice between a conservatively dressed girl and a provocatively dressed girl, a rapist may feel more invitation towards the one in the shorter skirt.

c) high heels can be deadly. use those provocative clothes to your advantage.

d) as a female that often walks alone in downtown or "dangerous" neighbourhoods, i would rather limit my freedom of expression in favor of safety. i usually make eye contact during the day and often even smile at strangers, but i would not exhibit that same behavior if i was alone at night in a bad area of town.

so, i guess i think people that feel they are exercising their freedom by doing what they want just because they *can* and may be endangering themselves needlessly are stupid.


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"get busy livin' or get busy dyin'..."
 37yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that sjmf is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
You have a lot of good points there Rollergirl. I don't think that any person would ask to be sexually assulted, as there are men out there that have been sexually assulted. Although most sexually assulted vuctims are females.

The girl in a shorter skirt may look more inviting, but I don't think that rapists always consider that. I still believe that if a rapist wants it, he will get it no matter who the victim is.

I am also a female living in a small town where "nothing" ever happens, but that does not mean that I am going to go out in short shorts and a slinky shirt. Because although everyone knows everyone there are those people out there that are sick in the head. I still prefer to have someone with me when I am out at night.

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"I'm every where you don't want me to be!"
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that bmxbiker16 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I dont care if people dress "provocativly" or not :/

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"I may disagree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death your right to say it"
 42yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that think4yourself is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Good points rollergirl, I particularly like your comment about using high heels in self-defense!

sjmf, I do agree with you that how a particular situation plays out is largely up to the rapist in question, which is why I talk more about statistics than individuals. There may be a guy out there that only goes after women in green shirts, but it isn't reasonable for women to stop wearing such shirts since this individual probably represents a very small percentage of all attackers. Some rapists might choose women completely randomly, regardless of what they are wearing, so it may well be impossible to be 100% safe. Still, overall you're minimizing the risk by being smart about how you dress, by not walking through dangerous areas unnecessarily, alone, or late at night, etc.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by I still believe that if a rapist wants it, he will get it no matter who the victim is, or how deeply you believe in the literal meaning of that statement. Personally, I don't think all rapists are brain damaged lunatics with no discernable patterns in how they behave, or how they choose their victims. It's not impossible to understand them. I think researching their psychology, studying some police statistics, and carrying some pepper spray for when the $hit hits the fan is a good way of minimizing your risk.

bmxbiker, I have no idea what you're trying to say. Please clarify.

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 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that bmxbiker16 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
im saying that i dont care how people dress, its their choice, an their choice alone

I dress like a goth, all black all the time, people come up to me and say offensive things to me all the time, just because of the way i dress. "You worship the Devil!!!!" I just ignore them.

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"I may disagree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death your right to say it"
 42yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that think4yourself is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Ahh.. I understand, and I share your sentiment. However, this thread was specifically about whether or not people who insist on dressing habits that get them into trouble are foolish. While I completely agree that it is up to the individual what they choose to wear, the decision they make can also be a smart or foolish one -- especially when safety is involved.

On the general issue of conforming vs being who you are, I consider the outcome in both scenarios. Usually there are no major consequences either way, and conforming often leads to my unhappiness, so in that event I change nothing about myself. But if there are greater consequences (safety in this case), it can be enough to sway things the other way.

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 41yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that wesdawgy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Okay, here's what I think...there are many factors that play into the rape statistics, i.e. are the women all attacked by strangers?
If yes, then the statistics posted about the higher risk when provocativly dressed, are valid.
If not, then a date rape or some sort of party rape bring a different angle. If a woman is at a party or on a date and she has on blue jeans and a sweatshirt, do you think she will get taken advantage of quicker than if she would have worn a short miniskirt with her thong sticking out and a half top?
Absolutely not.
Although this is NOT an excuse for a rape, it does however create a sort of 'window of possibilities' for the rapist. Whereas the women with the jeans and sweatshirt does not give him this 'window', the blinds are closed.
Wes

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"I'd like to say something profound....."SOMETHING PROFOUND""
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Dugbug is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
It isn't that women wearing provocative clothes attract rapists and psychopaths. It is that when you wear a more provocative dress it catches the eye better then that of someone normally dressed. Think of it this way, is you were walking down the street and there was a bunch of people walking by and stuff, and then there are 3 people of the opposite sex wearing a T-shirt and jeans you think that is normal whatever, it doesn't get your eye because you see it so often, but if 1 person of the opposite sex was half nude, you wouldn't just look once, you would do a double, triple look because you never see something like that.

Though to add my own ideas, I don't care if a girl wears normal clothes or not, I mean yeah if a girl is wearing provocative clothes I would look, and I don't deny it, but really I would rather date a girl that knew what a multiplication table was then someone that wears a skimpy dress to get my attention. AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMETIMES YOU WEAR PROVOCATIVE CLOTHES YOU ARE STUPID. I don't want anyone to misunderstand me, I am just saying that if your body is all you have to offer me, then I think I am going somewhere else.

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"If the opposite of Pro is Con, then is the opposite of Progress, Congress?"
 41yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that wesdawgy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Dug
Sorta the point I was trying to make, it matters to most guys what women wear, whether he's a rapist or not. But if he dosen't see any women with provocative clothing, he's not gonna give up for the night.
Wes

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"I'd like to say something profound....."SOMETHING PROFOUND""
 37yrs • M •
sheddingskin718 is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
dressing provocatively only puts a bigger spotlight on the lady. The sick fucks out there really dont have a preference on the clothing being worn. It only comes down to being at that place at the wrong time. theres nothing wrong with dressing that way. just be cautious and aware of the surroundings.

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 42yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that think4yourself is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The sick fucks out there really dont have a preference on the clothing being worn

I believe they do. Not that they all prefer provocatively dressed women, but I think on average there's a tendency to go after such women.

It only comes down to being at that place at the wrong time

I don't agree. You are implying that the rapist planned to do the deed at that place and time with no care at all about which target to pick on. I believe there's a target selection at work, and it affects the time and place where the deed happens, to an extent (don't get me wrong, I don't think the majority of rapists drive around all night looking for that very particular dress code, but to some extent the dress code will advance or delay the attack).

theres nothing wrong with dressing that way. just be cautious and aware of the surroundings

Of course being cautious and aware helps, but so does dressing more conservatively IMO. I may be reading your (short) post wrong, but you make it sound like caution and awareness account for nearly 100% of protective measures, while dressing a certain way has 0% effect.

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 50yrs • F •
wounduptight is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Here goes my opinion...

...I think that dressing in a slinky way catches the enemies eye. I agree with Dug, that the less clothing that a female is wearing the more attention they get. I also think that some females dress this way to get more attention, as they might be feeling down and depressed so they wear less clothing to feel better about themselves.
Maybe the enemy looks for females in less clothing as an easier access. The less time it takes them to get the clothes off, the more time they have to get what they want, and maybe they look at it as less time to getting caught.

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"Forever is a long time!"
 42yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that think4yourself is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
OMFG this shit pisses me off...

This is from a self defense forum in Montreal:

"Case in point down here in NYC about 2-3 years ago during the Puerto Rican day parade, there was about 20 something woman that were held down and sexually assaulted while guys filmed it (thats actually how they caught most of the instigators). However one woman was roller-blading with a thong and Bikini on, saw a group of guys harrassing and groping woman and decided to rollerblade right through the middle of them. She was attacked as well. When asked why she did this, her answer, 'I should have the right to wear anything I want and go anywhere I want'"

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The right to dress provocatively?
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