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Obama is a Communist - should we really vote for him?

User Thread
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Obama is a Communist - should we really vote for him?
I read a post from this guy on another forum and it makes a lot of sense. Obama, in essence, really is a communist and communism, as we know, has been tried many times in the past and failed miserably. McCain is a better choice at this point (not the best person for the job but the better choice.) He's even too socialist. But [i]less[i] socialist. I've provided the guy's post and the link to the other forum below if anyone's interested.



"30 years ago, in the face of a growing population the democrats decided that:

1. Stop Oil companies from drilling
2. Prevent the expansion of refining capacities to deal with the growing population.
3. Prevent the expansion of coal resources for the generation of electricity.
4. Prevent the expanision of nuclear power for the generation of electricity.

Obama's solution to the predictable crisis now upon us is

1. Nationalize the Oil Industry even though government can't establish it can walk and chew gum on the best of days. This is the irradication of any right to personally owned property. 100% Communist.

2. Windfall profits tax. Remove any profit from the oil industry and any incentive to produce anything. This doesn't put one drop of oil on the table and removes incentive to do so. It does, however, give any money to the government (to be used for buying more votes from a public willing to sell them).

Note. the last windfall profits tax in the 80's was an 80% tax. As there was no profit in pumping - these wells were shut down( or output reduced) and resulted in LESS oil going to market.

Only in a communist scenario are people expected to work and produce for free.

In the 70's - the railroad industry was so over burdened with federal regulation - they decided to go out of business when it came to passenger traffic. The government nationalized the railroads and created Amtrak which has NEVER run at a profit and service levels reduced from what they had been under private, incentive based control.

Obama is a communist and those who are willing to vote skin will never see past that point. Such people are bigots and they will vote their bigotries. Martin Luther King, on the other hand, set the standard of judging based on character. On such a yardstick, Obama fails anytest. He is anti-american, anti-captitalism, anti-white, and anti-business. While the left moans about business, they also neglect to advise that every dime of tax revenue comes only from one source - commerce! No commerce, no jobs, and no tax base.

There is an old writing from after WWII. I'll paraphrase.
They came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I said nothing.
Then they came for the Gypsies and the infirm, but I was neither and said nothing.
Then they came for priests, nuns and minsters, but I wasn't one and said nothing.
Then they came for me and I cried out for help - but there was no one left.

Once you decide to take away the property rights of one group, it is only a matter of time before they get to you and only an idiot with no understanding of history will believe otherwise.

The nation survived the social Clinton. It can survive the Marxist McCain IT CAN NOT SURVIVE A COMMUNIST.

My dentist is a nice fellow and a confirmed democrat. I pointed out to him that in all ways he lives a conservative life. So why do you vote left? He told me that when he needed a student loan (he's not white) the goverment gave him one and he felt that such things should be done for the people.

I pointed out to him that the government did NOTHING for him.
They did it for themselves. The cost of his loan as the principle and interest (which he did repay) AND HALF OF HIS INCOME FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

That income is higher than it would have been if he didn't have an education. They did nothing 'good' for him, they made an investment in the future tax base. ie - they did it for themselves.

Incidentally, he's an excellent dentist and a good man who performs pro bono work for those who can't afford it. He does this for his fellow man whereas the government did nothing.
In a socialized sitution (like england) dentistry means pulling the tooth - not repairing it.

Every place on this planet where socialism and/or communism, has been tried - it failed and ultimately it is the people who suffer because of it."

http://caligastia.proboards92.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=dis
play&thread=250&page=1

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that zachf is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
You only hear about the failures, have you bothered to look at countries like France and Canada. Their national standard of living is higher then the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index) and their average life expectancy is higher as well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Life_Expectancy_2007_Estimates_CIA_Wo
rld_Factbook.PNG)

If one wants to talk raw numbers i think communism is dominating the global market right now in just about every area. I don't think i need a source for that just look at the labels of people's cars, electronic devices, linens and such.

The idea sold that socialism is communism is crazy because they are two very different things. I dislike communism i love socialism because it is a way of making sure that business and people are a part of society not competing with it. (checks and balances)

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"Whether we wake or we sleep, Whether we carol or weep, The Sun with his Planets in chime, Marketh the going of Time. -Edward Fitzgerald"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The point is moot, both are tools of the elite that will further the agenda of global fascist/communist dictatorship because people like us buy into the crap like this that they feed us and have these pointless debates instead of facing up to reality and start making a real difference.

This is just as fixed an election in all the most important facets as all the rest, but if you want to make commentary on the puppet show and call it real, I can't stop you.

Wow, it seems so real, I can't even see the strings, maybe it is real.

(IMHO)

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"You only hear about the failures, have you bothered to look at countries like France and Canada. Their national standard of living is higher then the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index) and their average life expectancy is higher as well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Life_Expectancy_2007_Estimates_CIA_Wo
rld_Factbook.PNG)"

HDI isn't an accurate way to rate a country for standard of living in my opinion. It looks at numbers and consequently ignores quality (which is the only thing that matters and which is what socialism and communism coincidentally have been known to lack the most.)

"If one wants to talk raw numbers i think communism is dominating the global market right now in just about every area. I don't think i need a source for that just look at the labels of people's cars, electronic devices, linens and such."

I don't understand what you mean by this. (?)

"The idea sold that socialism is communism is crazy because they are two very different things. I dislike communism i love socialism because it is a way of making sure that business and people are a part of society not competing with it. (checks and balances)"

Business is inherently part of society... Could you have a business with only one person? Two people? Why do a redundant thing 'making sure'? I can imagine that only serves to irritate people.

Again, the term "people" insinuates a society. Socialism is redundant. End of story.

And just for the record, competition is healthy and makes things interesting. There are so many instances of inherent competition in the countless creations of man. Competition is not evil!

I'll close this by saying that safety nets aren't fun. They're stupid. If you want a safety net, go buy one. Is it fair to force everyone to have one?

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Chris, would you have willingly voted for Bush then? Do you consider him a good conservative? You refer to McCain as a Marxist.

Do you feel, though the country "survived" a social Clinton, that it benefited from whatever you would personally describe the Bush regime as?

Competition is not an adequate term for "capitalist" practices currently employed in America today.

Competition is not evil, what is going in America most definitely is.

If evil can be loosely defined as ultimately a detriment to all but perhaps one party involved in this "competition", including the environment, laborers, and patrons of these businesses or "competitive" entities you refer to.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that zachf is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.

Quote

"I don't understand what you mean by this. (?) "

i mean that if one were to take a little bit of time out of their day and look at where the majority of what product they buy is coming from that you are really buying into communism when one shops.

Quote

"Business is inherently part of society... Could you have a business with only one person? Two people? Why do a redundant thing 'making sure'? I can imagine that only serves to irritate people."

Wrong, business is NOT a part of are modern society there is a reason why businesses have to hire people to lobby congressmen and such. Democracy by nature is for the people by the people so why do certain people or groups of people that have private agenda's need to hire someone to bribe and give campaign contributions to a someone elected by the people when their opinion counts just as much as the next persons.

Again if business were part of society why do they need their own rights (In the united states business do have the same rights as individuals). Socialism takes money from the hands of people who screw the small people big and gives it back to them. Its a democracy that rewards hard work and also enforces ethics.

The word people was not insinuating a society it was saying that some people are assholes and like money and power so much that they are willing to take away a single mothers welfare check and government medical insurance because they want that extra $60 a month in their pockets.

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"Whether we wake or we sleep, Whether we carol or weep, The Sun with his Planets in chime, Marketh the going of Time. -Edward Fitzgerald"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"i mean that if one were to take a little bit of time out of their day and look at where the majority of what product they buy is coming from that you are really buying into communism when one shops."

I still don't understand, can you give me an example?

"Wrong, business is NOT a part of are modern society there is a reason why businesses have to hire people to lobby congressmen and such. Democracy by nature is for the people by the people so why do certain p

eople or groups of people that have private agenda's need to hire someone to bribe and give campaign contributions to a someone elected by the people when their opinion counts just as much as the next persons."

That's not a problem that concerns communist/socialist ideals. Rather, the problem you're referring to is rooted in the way government officials are elected which I don't personally agree with.

"Socialism takes money from the hands of people who screw the small people big and gives it back to them. Its a democracy that rewards hard work and also enforces ethics."

The small people must be doing something wrong then. Maybe they should reconsider their strategy?

'It's a democracy' - Actually socialism isn't a democracy at all. And just to clarify, because this is a common misconception, the US is NOT a democracy. It is a democratic republic.

Don't you think the people who earn those large sums of money (that you consider evil) are the best candidates to decide what to do with it? After all, they are the ones who put the time and effort in to attain it... as far as I'm concerned it's nobody else's business what they do with their money.

If you are so disgusted with these people, why not stop whining about "everybody needs to play fair" and earn your own fortune and show people what they should be doing with large sums of money? I mean... if you feel that strongly about it as you project yourself here.

"Its a democracy that rewards hard work and also enforces ethics. "

If you had any faith in the inherent nature of mankind then you wouldn't need to enforce ethics. A police force is necessary... you can't infringe on another person's freedoms i.e. you can't kill anybody, steal, etc.

"The word people was not insinuating a society it was saying that some people are assholes and like money and power so much that they are willing to take away a single mothers welfare check and government medical insurance because they want that extra $60 a month in their pockets."

And again, if you had any faith in the nature of mankind then you would find solace in the fact that these people must be miserable.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Jacker_Jones is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Obama is pretty far from communist... To say that obama is a communist is actually ridiculous. This is where Obama sits on the political spectrum... The only socialist I see running in the campaign is Ralph Nader as an independent.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

Business plays a huge role in politics. Politicians know they have to concede to business' because business' is what really runs the country. They have the money they invest in government bonds, in politicians campaigns, etcetera. Politicians know they can make powerful friends in office mostly people in the business community. This would be why everyone wants the job. Interestingly if Obama gets elected he would be the first president of the United States that was mostly publicly funded in his campaign.

As for Communism a good explanation as to why it has not worked is that it is usually in totalitarian or even authoritarian regimes. Mostly third world or second world as they liked to call it. If you are interested in Communism you should look into the former politics of Japan. Japan is the most income equal country in the world and yet it also has the second largest GDP in the world.

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"I love to see people struggling for their purpose in life..."
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that zachf is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html

That site lists the trade balances between the United States and China when you go to the store you are buying things on credit from China. The economic stimulus package that president bush gave us was so kindly paid for by China.

The United States economy is being held together by China right now on loans.

Quote

"If you had any faith in the inherent nature of mankind then you wouldn't need to enforce ethics. A police force is necessary... you can't infringe on another person's freedoms i.e. you can't kill anybody, steal, etc."

So why do we need to pay cops and people in the army?

Quote

"Don't you think the people who earn those large sums of money (that you consider evil) are the best candidates to decide what to do with it? After all, they are the ones who put the time and effort in to attain it... as far as I'm concerned it's nobody else's business what they do with their money."

No and No, just because you have money doesn't mean you deserve it. I know a girl who I knew very well and her grandfather made millions off of African apartheid this girls grandfather left her enough money to pay for a education at a I.V. league school, a house and the servants to come along with it.

She is set for the rest of her life and has done nothing to get it. On top of that the money that she has was made in a very unethical way. So does she really deserve that money anymore then me or you.

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"Whether we wake or we sleep, Whether we carol or weep, The Sun with his Planets in chime, Marketh the going of Time. -Edward Fitzgerald"
 44yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Chris, do I not warrant a response from you, I'm hurt.

quote:
the problem you're referring to is rooted in the way government officials are elected which I don't personally agree with.


Yet irrelevant enough for you to ignore and have a chat of the aftermath. Far more productive I'm sure.

What do you care if Obama is elected, do you just prefer your corruption with a non "communist" face on it?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"Yet irrelevant enough for you to ignore and have a chat of the aftermath. Far more productive I'm sure.

What do you care if Obama is elected, do you just prefer your corruption with a non "communist" face on it?"

It's a matter of less corruption and ignorance, more on the side of ignorance. Socialism is dumb. I've yet to see a good argument posed in favor of it. You claim that this is all stupid and tripe but you forget that you too are posting in it. Aside from that, as far as I've seen, you're probably one of the main contributors to the politics threads in general. I'm not trying to attack you by saying this, just bringing it to your attention.

"So why do we need to pay cops and people in the army?"

You're the one claiming that it is inherently wrong what these big businesses are doing but then if it were inherently wrong why then are people doing it? It would be dumb for them to do it if it were inherently wrong. It would damage their very nature.

I want police around because I want protection from psychos and killers. I want that protection because at this point in my life I'm afraid of death. If I wasn't then I wouldn't care if cops were around or not.

I still stand by my claim that socialism is redundant. You don't have any faith in the claims you make about people and what they deserve and so you want some big brother figure to re-enforce these rules for everyone. Either the rules were already there or they weren't. And if they were, which you claim, then the very people you call evil are hurting themselves the most.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that zachf is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Nice way to only address one of my points.

The reason we need cops and law agencies is because people do things that are wrong in there life's. The belief that because you have money makes you capable of spending and treating it correctly is the same thing as saying.

When I sell someone a gun that is sane, That it is impossible for that gun to be used for evil. I don't think anyone's every been shot by someone who was insane right. No. Bad people get tools that they don't have the mental capacity to handle. Thats why people get shot in high school and collage setting because there mental state resembles that of a very genius 12 year old.

Money works in the same way. Money is nothing more then a monetary tool that will allow one to get what they desire at a certain time. Just because we live in a world that value's money so much doesn't make it the ultimate good in the world. It is a very evil thing drives people to extremes that why if everyone shares that monetary idem and those who want a lot of it get a little more then everyone can be happy and ideally not driven by greed, by putting the power of such a tool in the hands of the people. It creates a better country.

Big brother doesn't equal socialism that is childish and has nothing to do with this discussion. For someone who felt a need to correct me on what the United States was that was ignorant. It is simply a transitional mid way between total communism and total capitalism.

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"Whether we wake or we sleep, Whether we carol or weep, The Sun with his Planets in chime, Marketh the going of Time. -Edward Fitzgerald"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Listen Zach, it's become clear to me that you've been exposed to this one view of how the world works and what's good and what's evil and nobody's going to change anyone's mind because you won't consider the alternative. It's already evil for you.

In line with your view, all of the good people are lazy and lack business and other practical skills BUT they should still be the ones setting the boundaries for business and welfare. Oh, okay, I get it now. That makes a lot of sense.

Here's a thought: Instead of complaining about what's going on, since this is clearly such an important issue to you, why don't you play by the rules that are already in effect, make your millions and show everyone what a millionaire should act like by example?

$$$words are cheap$$$

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that zachf is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Chris you don't understand, just because i don't agree with you doesn't me i am not open to change it simply means that your going to have to better then what i could've gotten off of fox news in a 1/2 hour of my time.

You think that a couple people should run everyones life because they hold a lot of money well. That makes a lot of sense. Not really.

You bite into what the media claims as true congratulation, i hope that you didn't actually have to read anything about what you are sayinng because i could've took a shit sold it on the free market to some small country and watch them fail and accomplish the same things because your political views do not work

If you have not noticed price changes at your local stores you are blind as well and ignorant. We are experianceing stagflation (that isn't good), caused by the your beliefs. It may look pretty on paper but it gets a giant FAIL when it comes to the real world.

And words are the greatest thing we have without them we are nothing. They are only way of communicating intellectual thought. Speak for yourself next time just because everything you say doesn't mean anything doesn't mean anything anyone say means nothing.

You are a useless pawn of the world that lets some retard ideals that have never worked guild his life. Just because your to shallow to look into something that doesn't look so pretty doesn't make a bad.

And good people get fucked a lot you'll learn that someday just because you don't understand it doesn't make it not true. The people you talk about as lazy and what not are the working class its right there in the name you twat WORKING class. That doesn't make them lazy that usually means they made some mistakes somewhere and didn't have rich parent to back them up.

Next time if your going to insult me, try and listen to what i'm saying no one should make millions thats the point no one needs it. I hate the way you view the world because it is so selfish that if everyone adopted that attitude we'd leave baby's on street corners to die because it cost to much to pay the government to find homes for them.

If you are afraid to think for yourself thats ok. But don't try to pass it off as intelligence. In a post claiming that you understand a man's beliefs that you read, didn't actually research but took someone else's opinion for. Now are selling them as fact. Is just cocky. Obama is far from being communist and a good bit away from socialist.

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"Whether we wake or we sleep, Whether we carol or weep, The Sun with his Planets in chime, Marketh the going of Time. -Edward Fitzgerald"
 33yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that awakendwraith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
What is socialism then? How would you define an american?

What are you're views on welfare?

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"Why cry for those that often cry? Instead, help them smile, and smile for those that smile."
Obama is a Communist - should we really vote for him?
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