Free will

I make a decision to pick up that glass.
Certain molecules move in a certain way, causing a reaction, which will eventually result in my picking up of the glass. But what caused those molecules to move in the first place? Perhaps my body was thirsty, and thus this interaction of molecules will result in influencing the interaction of molecules that will cause me to pick up that glass. But then what is the role of free will. Where does 'my choice' come into play, and apparently-it does. For no reason at all, I can refuse to pick up that glass-ah, but let us first describe the actual process before saying this is where free will intervenes.
As a result of thinking about all this I have written, to prove a point, wanting to show that I do have free will, as a result of which again certain molecules will interact in a certain way therefore causing me not to pick up that glass. In both situations, I don't 'decide' anything, all my actions are the result of external and internal influences affecting the interaction of molecules in my brain.

it seems the only role free will has is to decide which action to give the 'go ahead' to

freewill = enigma

But personally I think that we do. I've thought through freewill for many hours, and the only thing that I can factor in that makes freewill viable is an unknown or somewhat incomprehensible X factor such as a soul or spirit that allows us to make a manual override to whatever outside influences would naturally push us to one conclusion or another.
This case is thin.
If you don't believe in God or spirit or something unexplainable by science then I don't think that you can believe in true freewill. Just a perception of choice, due to the fact that we have self awareness as a side-effect of synapses firing in our brains. It would just be cause and effect. Explain my error if I'm in it.

Think about the few moments right before you die. When you are down to the wire, thinking back, could YOU have changed what you did? The reason I think not is because we are who we are. If we could have changed things then we wouldn't be ourselves now would we?
What this taught me was to never regret. Just accept who you are and learn what you can in order to better yourself from your experiences.

So who believes in Freewill?
I Do.

hmmmmm...freewill vs determinism
Being a believer of science I am a determinist. This is what i think:
Firstly every event must have a cause. Human Actions are events. Therefore, every human action is caused... So, determinism must be true. Want evidence?...
- Science seems to eventually find a cause for everything.
- We assume in everyday life that everything has a cause; we can not help but believe that every event has a cause.
- We only perceive that we can change our actions and behavior.
- Such feelings of control are illusions; we are just ignorant of all the irresistible forces acting upon us.
- Our behaviour is mainly determined by previous events.

Who agrees? Initially I used to believe in a compromise, but I don't think that is possible.

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yes, obviously every action of ours is caused, but can't we choose wheather that action will influence us or not? I think determinisation coupled with free will gives rise to human actions, but with the role of free will very little, as no one can say 'I and only I made that decision'. All factors such as us being thristy, being beaten up at an early age etc are influences. Hitler had a bad childhood and negative influences as a child, but that has happned to thousands and we only have one hitler...

HI im mike heres my thoughts...
how about deterministic vs. probabilistic...
details*particles control movement? mechanically, quantum particles, and their behavior is random...should freedom be a matter of probabilities? this now either conflictes with determinism by saying nothing can be deterministic if everything is random.. OR we could understand this random movement of particles to follow a strict, intricate and almost mathematical series of movements used as a tool to make decisions based on a larger deterministic theory.
and...
free will = personal decision making ... these decisions come from past events, which explain why or why not a person would or wouldnt reach out for the glass of water.
say, someone gets water and pours it into a glass. whats the reason for getting the water did u think about water because you were thirsty or were you thirsty becaus you thought about water. i heard once that " all health is mental health " i would have added to it by saying " but choice is responcibility. "
and who knows ... the thought process that brought us to the discussion of free will is even in question ... curiosity i suppose. but even curiosity is abstract.

but whos to say any action is free will? ha

yes, but particles inside a living being's body are not random as such, but how baffles me. Don't know how does a sperm knows where to go and what to do....
perhaps same is the case with the partices in the brain- but all this is just pre programming. The sperm can't decide.
Obviously something controls these particles, but what? we? but where is that we? If 'we' is a bunch of particles, then what cause that we to take action in the first place.
I think outside influence causes the conciousness to take action, which is pretty valid. If there were no outside influences, if there was no universe and only the brain, ther'd be no decisions.

yes, but particles inside a living being's body are not random as such, but how baffles me. Don't know how does a sperm knows where to go and what to do....
perhaps same is the case with the partices in the brain- but all this is just pre programming. The sperm can't decide.
Obviously something controls these particles, but what? we? but where is that we? If 'we' is a bunch of particles, then what cause that we to take action in the first place.
I think outside influence causes the conciousness to take action, which is pretty valid. If there were no outside influences, if there was no universe and only the brain, ther'd be no decisions. But again, even if the only purpose of free will is to give the green light for a action to go ahead, what takes that decisoin, what gives the green light? if I have the option of picking up that glass or not, yes my decision may be influenced in many ways, but what will decide?

Freewill is a part of us that allows us to make the decisions we do to furfill certain needs. We live, and to live we need to survive and to do so we have the choice of everything we our bodies can do to stay alive longer.
Our conciousness is 'us' inside a body, we must keep that body alive and how we do it is up to us, because afterall it is freewill that allows us to do anything we do.

If choice were simply fulfilling our needs, then animals would have the same amount of choice as us.

Because we are "effect" does not me we are not "free will."

If you look at the raising of your finger..do you see it as cause or effect?

That really depends on which end of the spectrum you decide to look at. Do you ask..what caused you to raise your finger..or what will result because of you raising your finger?


I believe by asking either of these, your determined to find a why or a how somewhere in there. I believe your looking for an answer to a question or searching for some basis in understanding. --So you may start with what you know..such as "why you raised your finger."

You then(im assuming) would trace the question back to your birth and even before that...searching for a cause.

(this only applys if infact you did question, why you do the things you do. -i.e. by freewill or solely because of domino effect.



Cause exists only because there is an effect.

..and because there is an effect, there has to be a cause.


and given there is a cause.-there's a pretty good chance that a greater power is in order, permitting us an ability of freewill.

such as the ability to question matters like this one..and bring our conclusions to the depths of infinite- in hope of finding more answers.