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 39yrs • M •  A CTL of 1 means that etherealmeekle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.  |
quote:
why not just sit around and wait for fate give you everything you need and desire?
The fate of one who sits and does nothing is death. quote:
you have to do things now so that things that you want will become real
Free will is bound by human limitation. For example I will never be an Air Force pilot because no amount of free will can give me the visual acuity necessary for this task. Fate has overruled my free will.
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"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
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41yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that heyjme1 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
So then free will is really the extent to which we realise our potential.
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39yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that etherealmeekle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
I will agree to that
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"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
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41yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that heyjme1 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
...and so fate is everything else which I do not understand and so have no control over. Ultimately then, the extent of our free will wil be realised in death. Live life guys!
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36yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that TRANCEND is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
ETHEREALMEEKLE- OF COURSE, I CANT JUST GO TO BED ONE NIGHT AND WILL TO BE SIX1/2 FT. IN THE MORNING SO I CAN BEAT EVERYONE AT BASKETBALL GAME THAT DAY THEN WILL TO GO BACK TO NORMAL THE NEXT DAY. THAT'S JUST MY PREDICAMENT, FATE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. IF BY MY CHANCE, MY PARENTS WERE BOTH SIX FT., THEN I WOULD PROBABLY WOULD BUT I'M NOT. SO OF COURSE FREE WILL DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO THINGS BEYOND REASON .
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"\WHEN YOU CANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE"
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39yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that etherealmeekle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
quote:
IF BY MY CHANCE, MY PARENTS WERE BOTH SIX FT., THEN I WOULD PROBABLY WOULD BUT I'M NOT
Not chance your parents heights were determined by their parents and theirs and so on it was the end result (or fate) of a particular set of genes.
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"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
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35yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that St. Jimmy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
Yes but it was his parents free will that brought them together. not fate, so it was free will that determined his height (while not his).
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"He who does not question is lost."
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39yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that etherealmeekle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
My dispute is not with free will but with chance. Free will only exists where there is fate because fate defines free will. If it were between chance and free will then there is no certainty that any actions would accomplish anything and then why would anybody be motivated to do anything?
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"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
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41yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that heyjme1 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
quote:
Yes but it was his parents free will that brought them together. not fate, so it was free will that determined his height (while not his).
If my above assumptions are right then fate and free will are relative to the individual. Since the individual was not born then it is fate, not free will that determined this course of action relative to that individual. However, for the mother and father, if they had a kid thgrough choice then that is there free will. |
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36yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that Cynic-Al is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
i dont believe in fate, as predetermination. but i believe in fate to the extent of chance, etheral didnt like the idea of chance, but i believe fate and chance are the same thing. they are both the uncontrolable factors surrounding free will.
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"So Schrodinger's Cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by elbows and peanut butter?"
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39yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that etherealmeekle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
quote:
they are both the uncontrolable factors surrounding free will
But fate follows a set of rules whereas chance is just randomness and that takes all meaning out of our actions.
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"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
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36yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that TRANCEND is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
RANDOMNESS TO AN EXTENT, WHEN AN ACTION IS TAKEN THERE IS A CHANCE THAT SEVERAL EFFECTS WITHIN REASON MAY OUTCOME.
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"\WHEN YOU CANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT CHANGE"
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39yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that etherealmeekle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
quote:
WHEN AN ACTION IS TAKEN THERE IS A CHANCE THAT SEVERAL EFFECTS WITHIN REASON MAY OUTCOME.
When an action is taken is there a possibility of there not being an outcome? But since when does chance have to stay within reason? Confining chance to reason is giving it the same conditions as fate because fate is a consequence to an action.
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"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
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41yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that heyjme1 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
I think I understand what Transcend is saying. Really when he says within reason, he means within the practical limits of the known phenomenon changing other phenomena. A tree with normal DNA could hardly be expected to grow 10 miles in the air...but whether it will be wide, long or bushy etc., is all subject to some degree of chance. Thats from my position anyway...because I know so little! Whether that chance exists in the recipe of nature (or God)..well thats the real question-as has been said: Does God play dice?
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39yrs • M • A CTL of 1 means that etherealmeekle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic. |
quote:
as has been said: Does God play dice?
Einstein didn't think so.
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"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
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