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Remarkable State of the Union Speech...

User Thread
 50yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Xris is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Remarkable State of the Union Speech...
President Bush's speech was bold and highly visionary.

I liked his social security plan and his tax reform ideas but I especially liked his subtle warning to Iran and his sharp rebuke to Saudi Arabia and Eygpt.

Bravo Mr. President!

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 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"I liked his social security plan"

Thats funny, no democrats and many republicans didn't.

You like threatening countries don't you. Because that's worked so well for us in the past and even now right?

Because threats are the way to get things done. Oh wait no, my bad, actually invading and bombing the shit out of them is.

And of course there is no chance that Bush lies, thank god for the honesty of politicians and CEO corporate types. Always looking out for morals and the people. Boy, you hear that so much its cliche......... right?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 35yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Astarte is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The promise to raise Pell Grant increments was the only thing I heard and then I figured, $87 billion in Iraq, he didn't mention any missiles for the icreased funding, so the two just didn't work out for me.

Like on Comedy Central the other day..this lady goes, "Hell, I think we should blow ourselves up to get increased funding in the education system in the US!"


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"Milk, almonds and pistachios."
 50yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Xris is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"Thats funny, no democrats and many republicans didn't. "

Yeah and the democrats said SS is in fine shape too. They have no credibility and have offered no alternatives so, until they do, I laugh at their obstructionism.

And if you think that Bush cant get a majority of the House and Senate then you are going to be sadly mistaken.

"You like threatening countries don't you. Because that's worked so well for us in the past and even now right?
Because threats are the way to get things done. Oh wait no, my bad, actually invading and bombing the shit out of them is. "

You are darn right I do and you are darn right it can get things done. What do you like - begging? You wearing your knee pads? I also like diplomacy too and know that a soft speech is often better heard if one carries a big stick.

"And of course there is no chance that Bush lies, thank god for the honesty of politicians and CEO corporate types. Always looking out for morals and the people. Boy, you hear that so much its cliche......... right?"

Do you lie? Are you lying right now?

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 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Am I in a posistion for my lies to ruin the country or world?

Get your priorities of whom to bitch at straight.

Did you stop to think of why the security of SS is in danger? Perhaps because money isn't being spent properly? Perhaps because we have a system of greed where the rich benifit from the poor staying that way.

Hmmm, fund endless war and empoverish an already poverty stricken "richest" country in the world. No problems with that logic right?

"You are darn right I do and you are darn right it can get things done. What do you like - begging? You wearing your knee pads? I also like diplomacy too and know that a soft speech is often better heard if one carries a big stick."

What exactly are you trying to get done? Ending war? Ending terrorism? If so you need to know the source of war and terrorism. And because you are a Bush fan you will never know, because you will most likely refuse to understand that westernized societies have been causing, creating, funding and training terrorism for decades.

We create unstable environments to gain control over resources from countries that are not pro america because they know we do these things and will steal their resources.

Untill you get that you are lost.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 50yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Xris is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Ok you keep callin Bush a liar yet never tell us what lies hes told. You think you could do that?

"Did you stop to think of why the security of SS is in danger? Perhaps because money isn't being spent properly? Perhaps because we have a system of greed where the rich benifit from the poor staying that way. "

Actually I absolutely know why SS is in danger and it has nothing to do with money being spent properly and it has nothing to do with the rich who, by the way, pay more in taxes than the poor do. SS is int trouble because its a ponzi scheme - because when it was created 16 workers paid the benefits of a retiree and now its down to 3 workers and soon it will be 2, because when it was created average lifespan was only about 65 and now its around 77, and because baby boomers are nearing retirement.

"What exactly are you trying to get done? Ending war? Ending terrorism? If so you need to know the source of war and terrorism. And because you are a Bush fan you will never know, because you will most likely refuse to understand that westernized societies have been causing, creating, funding and training terrorism for decades. We create unstable environments to gain control over resources from countries that are not pro america because they know we do these things and will steal their resources."

I understand that you are a blame america firster. I undertsand that for you the west is the source of all evil. I understand that you probably believe American agents or the Mossad were the ones that flew the planes into the buildings on 9/11. I understand that you think the 3rd world is a paradise and the people there simply want peace and equality and are only prevented from establishing utopians societies because of western intervention.


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 35yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Astarte is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Oh, okay, but $87 billion in Iraq is spent properly?
Dear lord, we have people dying in the streets here or using plastic milk jugs in high schools to teach physics, and you tell me Bush isn't manipulating and lying to this public?

Right, because the WMDs were in North Korea all along, Kim Jong Il's still got missiles pointing at California's west coast, and you tell me IRAQ and Bush are good and holy?

Rich pay more taxes than the poor do?
Well no shit, it's something called proportion, the more you got, the more a percentage is going to take away.

Unbelievable.

Domestically, this country's heading for the shits, and you're too busy trying to help Iraqis that are going to turn around and kick everyone out and start yet another Islamic regime in the coming years - what a waste of an investment, history never lies and is doomed to repeat itself where necessary. According to TIME last week, we started off with 150,000 troops in Iraq in 2003, and you know what the number is now? 150,000. Minus the ones that got shot and killed, or beheaded, or stabbed by now.

When this country starts bowing down to the feet of the Chinese, the only pity I will have will be for the 46% of this nation that had brains, and the Canadians who are so linked to us economically they're going to suffer when we do. This country runs on credit, it's not rich, it has no money to spend, and when the collection agencies come around, we'll see who's got enough to pay.

Might I add from the headlines just now:

President Bush will ask Congress for $419.3 billion for the Pentagon for next year, 4.8 percent more than this year's spending as the administration seeks to beef up and reshape the Army and Marine Corps for fighting terrorism. The request will not include money for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Congress already has appropriated $25 billion for those this year, and the White House is planning to request another $80 billion soon.

[Okay, so how is Bush going to fund other, more useless agendas like SS and education? From my ass?]

Oh and here's where the Chinese start rejoicing!

LONDON - Some of the world's major central bankers warned the United States on Friday that the international community could be running out of patience with the massive U.S. budget and trade deficits that have pushed the dollar lower and increased the cost of their exports in America.

Check out xe.com and compare the GB Pound against the dollar, the USD is at almost 2.00 for every pound, only years ago under CLINTON it was at 1.65! So much for buying textbooks from the UK.

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"Milk, almonds and pistachios."
 50yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Xris is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"Oh, okay, but $87 billion in Iraq is spent properly? Dear lord, we have people dying in the streets here or using plastic milk jugs in high schools to teach physics, and "

So you propose not supporting our soldiers during a war? Is that really what you are proposing?

"you tell me Bush isn't manipulating and lying to this public?"

No I am asking you to tell me what lies he has told. Apparently none of you can.

"Right, because the WMDs were in North Korea all along, Kim Jong Il's still got missiles pointing at California's west coast, and you tell me IRAQ and Bush are good and holy?"

I have no idea what your point is. Please explain...

"Rich pay more taxes than the poor do? Well no shit, it's something called proportion, the more you got, the more a percentage is going to take away."

So you admit that you do not believe the govt should treat people equally. You are in favor of govt mandated discrimination. Well that's you right, I guess.

"Domestically, this country's heading for the shits"

Do you know what subjective means? Can you explain that with some data?

"When this country starts bowing down to the feet of the Chinese, the only pity I will have will be for the 46% of this nation that had brains, and the Canadians who are so linked to us economically they're going to suffer when we do. This country runs on credit, it's not rich, it has no money to spend, and when the collection agencies come around, we'll see who's got enough to pay."

Do you know that America's national debt is lower as a percentage of GDP than anytime from 1978 to 1995? Furthermore the US has lower unemployment, lower interest rates and greater economic growth rate than any nation in the EU as well as all of the EU combined.

If you think the gov't spends too much money - which I would clearly agree - what programs - beside defense - would you suggest receive cuts. I know you will zone in on defense and since that is the only constitutional required funding and since defense cuts are not the cause of deficit spending but entitlemens are then I would love for you to think outside the box and suggest some actual programs that should be axed.

Also, when the President's budget suggests spending reductions and decreases in the rate of entitlement growth will you support him?

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 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that wizardslogic is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Geez...Bush is an idiot...People just don't get it, do they?...We had a very big bank account after Clinton left office...We got hit by a Saudi named Bin Laden...Bush couldn't get this guy and, since the country's temper was hot, decided to take advantage of the situation and go after an old enemy of his dad's, Hussein...His administration made up all this bullshit about weapons of mass destruction and connections to Al Quaida to drag us into a war that's nearly bankrupted us, while Bin Laden still calls the shots as a successful international terrorist!...Our bank account is gone and all sorts of benefits and programs will have to be cut or dismantled...and young men are dying in a foreign land!...And for what?...Sure, Hussein was a bad guy, I'm not doubting that, but there are plenty worse dictators than him (consider some African regimes!)...We've wasted our time and money, and alot of lives...I repeat, Bush is an idiot...and a dangerous one...

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"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Of course any poor nation is a mess, we live in a nation with plenty of poor and homeless to see it for ourselves, when people are desperate and fueled by clashing religions its hell.

The American side of causing problems is not underscored by this, actually we use it to inflame situations to our benefit, thats our secret foreign policy, and its not a secret anymore, this really picked up after WWII and plenty of official declassified information has been legally and legitimately released due to freedom of information acts.

The current lies come from the WMD's, Saddam and 9/11 (and whatever else I'm forgetting at the moment), and this comes from intelligence agents and weapons inspectors who were privy to the raw info that Bush and his cabinet lied about. Or more often told half truths about with the direct purpose of misleading.

Not to mention vote fraud by any and all parties.

Again you need to be wary of your unemployment and economic numbers, all information coming from any source tends to be lighted in a self serving fashion. You wouldn't want to believe a lie would you?

And since none of us are in the white house we are forced to take peoples word for it or demand access to better info. But unfortunately most of us are too lazy or feel defeated or righteous to do anything but bitch on debate forums.

We would rather fight eachother than go to the source in any fashion other than a lap dog.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 50yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Xris is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Yeah Bush is the smartest idiot to ever walk the planet. lol

How simple the world is to you.

We did not have a surplus when Clinton left office. We had a PROJECTED surplus that was fastly dwindling because of the dot.com burst and market decline and the Clinton recession.

Bush did not go after Saddam because he couldnt get Osama and because the nations temper was hot. Bush destroyed the Taliban, liberated Afghanistan and then went after Saddam, according to a much more intelligent and long view for fighting the war on terror (one that many simply arent bright enough to grasp) at GREAT political risk.

"His administration made up all this bullshit about weapons of mass destruction and connections to Al Quaida to drag us into a war that's nearly bankrupted us, while Bin Laden still calls the shots as a successful international terrorist!..."

Bush made up nothing. Bush had the same intel as the UN, the French, the Russians and the Brits. Hell if you ever read a paper you would know that Putin admitted that his intel was no different that the US's. And remember Russia was against the war as were the French. The connections to Al Qaeda were proved in the bi-partisan 9/11 report - you would know this if you bothered to read it or the papers. The US is not bancrupt, nearing bancrupt, close to bancrupt - we are the healthiest and strongest economy in the world - our debt is smaller as a percentage of GDP than anytime since 1979 to 1995.

"Bin Laden still calls the shots as a successful international terrorist!..."

Where - when? He sure hasnt hit the US like he did all through the Clinton admin. I dont know if I have ever read a single post that had more errors and propaganda.

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 50yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Xris is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"The current lies come from the WMD's, Saddam and 9/11 (and whatever else I'm forgetting at the moment), and this comes from intelligence agents and weapons inspectors who were privy to the raw info that Bush and his cabinet lied about. Or more often told half truths about with the direct purpose of misleading. "

Bush never told a single lie regarding WMDs or mislead anyone on the issue of Iraq. Not once! Bush made his decissions based on intel that we later learned to be flawed. However, like I said above, if you bothered to read Putins remarks in October where he stated that his nation had the exact same intel as the US and France and Britian and the UN did then you would not attempt this lame game of blaming Bush.

Are you really saying that Bush knew there were no WMDs and timed the fact that such knowledge would be out and used against him to coincide with his reelection? If even if you believe Bush is that stupid I know you dont believe Karl Rove is.

The truth is that we do know that Saddam had WMDs and we do NOT know what happenned to them. It is highly probable that they were transfered to Syria as many Israeli agents believe.

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 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
This is where you are quite wrong, that's not coming from me either, we did know there were no WMD's we had weapons inspectors tell us, we bombed and sanctioned Iraq for about 15 years leaving no capabilities and inspectors sure of the destruction of at least 95%.

You speak of propaganda, but you are delusional if you don't think that it is being used on you, what do you think political spin is for one.

You focus on such bias and handfed media like all no questions asked Bush supporters and just like all Bush supporters bash any information that doesn't fit your beliefs.

Hypocricy is the cry of the right these days, blatant and arrogant.

Bush is very schooled in the art of secrecy and deception, when your dad was the president and a head of the CIA and a corporate tycoon you are working with a unique situation.

Cherry picking intelligence and telling half truths to pursuade the population towards war, think not, just listen to both Rice and Powell from Feb 2001 saying that Saddam isn't a threat to anyone because we basically bombed and sanctioned them back to the stone age, and with left over devastation from Iraq Iran on top of gulf one, intermittent bombing and sanctions we killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis.

National Security means that we really can't know dick, and we need to keep that in mind, the government has a free ticket to lie to us because we let them, don't be a fucking assinine lap dog and believe for a second that everything coming out of the mouth of the white is true. You do that and you've already lost.

That is just common sense, corruption exists and no one tends to deny that, its allowed to exist because the system supports it, but then people are so adament that suddenly Bush is the golden child and act like they just shit all information from all history straight from their head unless is was information Bashing left wings and democrats, its amazing really, but quite detrimental and frightening.

You sound like every pro Bush pundit, you repeat verbatim their opinion and call it your own. Then you bitch at people like me because you generalize any statements that aren't 100% pro Bush and deem them left wing, democrat, general nut job like your pundits tell you to.

If you judged what you say by the standard that you judge others you would make yourself sick, but for some reason the right cannot see the hypocricy, they know they are biased but don't understand apparently what bias is.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Honestly, its POSSIBLE, that if we turn Iraq into a middle eastern Taiwan that that would fight terrorism.

But I think its more likely that Bush what is good for his class, rather then really fighting for the huge amounts of investment and colossal aid that would need to be given to Iraq.

I mean, historically, how have we westernized nations? How did Italy, Germany, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan become so rich? There are two main situations:
- South Korea, Japan and Taiwan: we maintain a dictatorial regime (the state still functions). But we smother it in aid (usually to stop the commies). Eventually, the new middle class and students force through democracy.
- Italy, Germany: We destroy the state, and all anti-Americans function through the state. Any non-state paramilitaries and resistance to the regime are pro-US, so no problem with occupation. We then smother them in aid.

The Iraqi operation involved BOTH destroying the state (thus no order) AND having an opposition (Islamists) who hate us. Hence, I think it was the wrong fight. For the same reason Bush senior did not invade Iraq (and he has said this) there is no exit strategy. And that's because we destroyed state while all non-state forces were clearly anti-American.

Given there are no pro-American popular resistance movements today, the WW2 strategy is impossible. But we could have applied our far eastern strategy, which resulted in wealthy quasi-western Japan, South Korea and Taiwan:

We should have instead given huge amounts of aid (the 1 billion $ we are spending a week we are spending in war, would have been far more then sufficient) to the more liberal middle eastern regimes. Say, Jordan, Turkey and Egypt in exchange for some more trade liberalization. The result would have been within 20 years of a more affluent people, probably some radical-liberal student protests. And eventually, like formerly authoritarian South Korea and Taiwan, would have reformed towards democracy.

That's what worked in the Cold War. Its still applicable. Bush's strategy in Iraq is new, unnescessary, alienates our friends and is needlessly dangerous.

I'm making the assumption Bush IS trying to turn Iraq into Taiwan. I am assuming he is doing more then just serving his class whom have benefitted IMMENSELY from the war, even though the nation has not.

"The truth is that we do know that Saddam had WMDs and we do NOT know what happenned to them. It is highly probable that they were transfered to Syria as many Israeli agents believe."
After we don't find them in Syria, shall we invade Iran just in case? Meanwhile, there's a repressive military dictatorship which DOES have WMD, but no one cares for some reason. Pakistan. (and no I don't want to invade them, ***hole)

Double standards are wonderful.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 50yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Xris is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"This is where you are quite wrong, that's not coming from me either, we did know there were no WMD's we had weapons inspectors tell us, we bombed and sanctioned Iraq for about 15 years leaving no capabilities and inspectors sure of the destruction of at least 95%."

I am sorry but you are simply wrong. I do not know where you are getting this but who ever it is is lying to you. You should learn the facts, by yourself, so that you can discount these sources of propaganda that are pulling the wool over your eyes.

Iraq had storehouses of WMDs that the UN had documented. The UN saw them with their own eyes BUT did not see their destruction. We do not know today where they are or what happenned to them - thats a fact.

You sound very much like an opposition tool who has been fooled and lied to to such an extenet that you are now incapable of debating with any kind of rationality and impartiality.

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Remarkable State of the Union Speech...
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