A Just Religion

One religion under God for the people by the people. Can that happen?

There are a lot of comments about church being bad but a belief in God being good. With all these comments I must agree. Why is the church bad? Because people have an ego, and whenever a person is put in charge of other people they have an ego trip, thinking themselves as better then those they are put in charge of causig them to take certain liberties. Church should have more checks and balences to make up for imperfections of the human ego.

Out of all the churches I have belonged to, my most favorite was the REORGANIZED Church of Latter Day Saints. The reason being is that everyone in the congregration who is of age and is a baptised confessing member is required to take up leadership positions in the church, they have no paid clergy. These leadership positions are not permenent and are rotated on a case by case basis. This has caused it to be a very open minded church. Everyone freely expresses their own views and you are given an opportunity to express your beliefs given equal authority. However, because of all the different beliefs floating around, they are not strong in one single belief and there is no agreement on salvation. But its a nice place to express your views and have an opportunity to here other views. Except that you do have to believe that the book of morman is the word of God to participate (I could not), never-the-less all are welcome to attend.

So - what's your experience - Good or bad, and what changes do you feel should be made?

I gather you have guessed my faith. I prefer to stay in my same place of faith.
My experiences are mine to keep, and my faith has grown over the years.
I have read other religions, out of curiosity. To discern what they feel are the predominant forces for salvation.

I have a deep understanding of my faith. Although a complex religion, it is steadfast over the years. Although I do not prefer to make a statement of my particular relgion, I feel that is due to the argument given that I am trying to convert others into my own way. I find the whole debate process rather disgruntling.

I actually revel in the sheer learning process of debate. The different ideas are so complex. And it gives my brain food.
for thought.

Anyway, there was once one religion. It was so powerful, but because mankind have hard hearts, the reformation of faith had occured. The reform came about for two reasons, mankind
has faults.
The first fault, is power. If given too much, mankind becomes gluttonous with it. Priests, Bishops, and such forth had the entire world at their feet. They controlled Kings, and countries.
Not the fault of the Teachings of the original church, but the corruption of mankind.
Second fault, mankind rebels against laws eventually if they do not befit their own ideals.
We all know we have the rebelous heart.

But looking past all the nuances that man themselves imposed onto the original church we still yeild the basic truths.
Man changes, God does not. Fortunately the church has still upheld the basic truths from the beginning of time.

And yet still, the evil forces try to prevail against it, but it will never happen. As Jesus said to Peter. "I give you the keys to my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Though in the society we have today, the most attacked church is always in the news. The men whom are tempted the strongest and the most, are always in the headlines. The church will prevail, but the times of much dissent will occur at this time.

I look beyond the people in church, I look towards heaven. That is the only way I can forgive and get past all I see in this incredibly evil, and ugly world in which we live today.

Peace.

I am of the Latter Day Saints, but not the reorganized.
In my church, it is the same thing with the positions as of being rotated and all. When we ar eold enough for a job, we might be asked to do it, and we have a choice to do it. Also, if anyone objects to this person working at that position, they have the chance to object and give good reasoning.
Everything of what you mentioned is in my church too.

But there is one thing wrong with part of the image you were looking for.

People think that they can bend the rules of God. They think they can reason themselves out of sin, or they thing they can make a deal with God so they can break the rules for a little while.
A religion run by the people is a fine and dandy thing when it is under God, but when God is not part of it, then the religion begins to suck. You can't change God's rules, the people can not decide together to make God's rules dissapear.
God speaks the truth, and the people have to listen and obey.

Church as a democracy would never work.

[quote"]I give you the keys to my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." [/quote]

This church that the bible speaks of here I believe has already been taken up in a rapture that occured before the creation of the Catholic Church.

I know that you are a Christian - but I haven't guessed what church you belong to.

Elemental - I knew you were Morman. A month ago some one from the church called inviting me back. Me and my wife, we are thinking about it. The Morman church is really neat, it is very strong in community.

I believe in the church of Christ consciousness. But that church doesn't exist. I'm probebly the only person in the whole state of Oklahoma who believes in Christ Consciousness. So I don't really have a church.

A church based on Christ consciousness would look like a democratic church, but it would ONLY look that way. The real leader of the church would go unseen, that would be, the consciousness of Christ of whom we all abide in.

I base alot of my belief on what archeologists uncovered.
In addition to what the bible says.
I like a full rounded belief.

Today has so many different teachings, and different doctrines, I decided to look for a back up. And that is how I find that church is important.
The church of them, slowly developed.
Interesting enough, the first churches were actually found in early christian homes.
The evolving of the church made it a seperate building, but still, an important place for worship.

Important because as Jesus said, where two or more gather, I shall be present.

Ephesians I:22

quote:

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And hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him 'to be' head overall 'things to' the church

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Peter may have been given the keys to your Church and be the rock upon which you stand.
But I think the most important thing about the cornerstone that it is the life, Christians should seek to live.
Which is the main reason He (Christ) had to come & this is the most important lesson He (Jesus) taught?

He who was rejected became the cornerstone.

There are no just religions. Religion is brain-washing as a means of control. Religion in all of its world-wide mainfestations is the root of all evil on this planet. A planet populated with atheists would be a much happier, saner, tolerant, compassionate, and respectful place. Can 95% of the world's population be wrong? Yes, absolutely! Religion is nonsense on a grand scale.

nodgnoc - I understand how you feel - but that's not right - You are older than I - remember the killing fields. Horrible, atheism was responsible for that. Whenever you have a group setting of five, five thousand or five million like minded individuals, you have the capacity for great evil and goodness. As confucious has taught, it depends mostly on the leader.

I think what cturtle, myself, and maybe others is trying to explain is (if God was the leader) then things would be different. But God is not the leader. A person who claims to speak for God leads the people.

I ask this question - why can't we hear God? Why do we think that the truth of God comes from another person?

Have you seen the movie The Day After Tommorow. A whole flock of birds fly over New York. Why do the animals know things we do not? Because they're listening while we're to busy thinking we already have the answer and not paying attention to the truth that will some day slap us in the face.

Granted atheists have killed more than their fair share of people, but when it comes to killing nobody does it like true believers. More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason (by far) and even the atheists who did kill on a grand scale considered themselves 'god like' entities, so their killing still has a religious connotation. If people could learn to have faith in themselves and their fellow humans (and not some ridiculous mythology) this planet just might survive. I fear however that we just might blow each other up over whose God is the 'real' God and whose is false. That's TOTALLY INSANE! I stand by what I wrote. Atheism just might save the world.

In absolute terms, Stalin, Mao and Hitler all killed huge amounts of people and all were basically atheist.
However, they indeed had created their own religions. Communism is in practice is a religion, with Marx-Lenin as God and Christ and the Party as the clergy (it even has deviants like Tito/Albania).
As for Hitler... well, he believed he was Christ and that Providence was occuring.

Religion, or more generally, fanaticism has lead to more murder then anything else.

It could be that the religious fanatics have killed more than the non-believers because there's just more of them. Athiesim is kindof a new idea. I'm sure there were people long long ago who did not believe, but you wouldn't dare tell nobody.

Hitler, etc. It is normal human nature to believe that you better than everyone else whenever you are placed in charge. When I was in the military they used to teach that a good leader is someone who can recognize there own faults. That might be true. A very bad leader like hitler would not and fall into the trap believing they were God like. Its a funny thing. Government can never be perfect and always has to be kept into check. Likewise people cannot live together in peace without government and Iraq is only one example of that. This is most likely true with government as well. That is why I believe in a religion under God, by the people for the people. I think both the Latter Day Saints Church and the Reorganized chuch of Latter Day Saints is a good example of this, unfortunately, I don't believe in the Book of Morman.

The trouble with non-democratic church is that there is no way of knowing if the despotic priests are legitimate. You could end up with a bunch of corrupt oligarchic priests like in the Papal States.

I'm an atheist, and I haven't killed anyone yet. Conversely, I know very religious people who haven't commited murder either.

A system of balance, keeping the powerful from going overboard, is historically what mankind lacked. Then along came Democracy, Thomas Jefferson and the separation of church and state. The 3 branches of government are designed to keep in check the power of itself, while guaranting the rights of all citizens to believe in whatever religion they see fit.

It ain't perfect, but considering the political figures that you mentioned, and considering the undemocratic history of religions, it's as good as it's going to get.

[That is why I believe in a religion under God]

Did you mean a nation under God?