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Religious beliefs

User Thread
 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Restless Mind is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Religious beliefs
Why is it that the world needs a beilief on life after death?

I can accept the fact that after you are dead....that's it. You are dead!

I cannot understand the need for this, any insight would be helpfull, I can not guarntee that I will accept your explaination but it may help.

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[  Edited by Restless Mind at   ]
 44yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that rollergirl is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
i find it depressing.

if that were the case, then we only have (at most) 100 years to make an impact on our surroundings or mature our soul.

are you living your life as if you could die tomorrow and that would be it? i definitely am not. i live as if tomorrow could be a better day. as if tomorrow could hold something that today doesn't have.

i don't enjoy today for what it is.

plus, religion creates order.

i think that most people believe in life after death because of the other connotations; mainly that there is a god and that your actions in this life have greater repercussions than you are aware of.

take, for example, east indian religions that believe in reincarnation. when you die, you really die. but then your soul comes back as something else. if you were a good person, you come back as something good. if you were a bad person, you come back as something bad.

if there were no greater repercussions for our actions, i think a lot of the world would be chaotic. religion creates order.

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"get busy livin' or get busy dyin'..."
 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Restless Mind is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Yes but relgion also creates havoic. To some it creates order, for many it creates disorder. For generations with war and such.

The world is chaotic now even with a few dozen religions throughout the world. To me I do not have any desire whatsoever to believe in a "god". I see no advantages in doing so.

I am based very much on facts in life. Without getting into the theory of evolution and such, I do believe that we evolved just as the other animals have on this great planet.

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 76yrs • M •
johnstewart is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Rollergirl has a valid point .... throughout history those cultures that practiced strong religious beliefs have had less chaos and made greater progress, as long as the religion was not oppressive in nature. Most law has been developed from religious beliefs. The main reason it works so well is that religion is both an emotional and mental issue. Most logic tries to ignore emotion because logic has a difficult time dealing with 'feelings'.

Administrator also has a point. If an intelligent person who has worked hard to understand humanity and history arrives at the conclusion that 'god' is not necessary for a full and complete life who can really prove that god is essential. Again, we are dealing with emotion because faith is the belief in the unbelievable, without proof. Pure logic, without emotion, has no foundation to set faith on. Who is right - god only knows.

Mankind (the generic term for all of us) has created many versions and superstitions about a god, or gods. That is one of the reasons why educated, literate people find it difficult to believe religion in modern times has value.

I choose to believe there is a god simply because I choose to believe that this life is more than just living and dying and I find it comforting to believe that the majesty of our universe is more than an accident. That purpose adds value to my daily living and helps me to treat my fellow humans as special people, since logic says that if we are all children of god then we all owe each other respect and courtesy. Some day we may have a religion that can make that work and then we will have something special.

Thanks for your ideas, they are very enjoyable..... john

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 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Restless Mind is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
hey john, actually we are both Administrators.

Also I started this thread to try to understand religion so I was wondering if you could tell me why you (and others) have this need to "believe that this life is more than just living and dying ".

I myself can accept this fact I am just wondering why others have a problem with accepting this.

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[  Edited by Restless Mind at   ]
 76yrs • M •
johnstewart is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Sorry about the name misunderstanding Firebird....
Understanding religion requires the study of man, his cultures and belief systems which drive his ideas, superstitions, values and beliefs. I've been curious about religion for 40 years and I only know a little about it. Personally, I like the Bhuddist philosophy which says you are reborn over and over until you understand the perfection of life and then you attain nirvana (heaven, paradise, valhalla).

For those who believe no explanation is necessary
For those who do not believe no explanation will suffice

That is the best definition of faith I have ever heard. Faith is believing in the unbelieveable, without reason, without proof - and the neverending question is WHY ???

An easy answer - if you convince all the living people today that there is no god, no better ending for what they do, you will have chaos and the breakdown of all social order. Life as we know it will not exist for long. Why - because we are still primitive in many emotional ways and if there is no payoff for living a good life (as opposed to the good life) there is no longer a reason to follow law or order. There will be many who are intelligent enough to know that social order is critical to group survival but they will not be able to hold back those who no longer care what happens. That is one reason why the religions teach the faithful to obey the law.

A difficult answer - you choose, that simple and that hard. You evaluate yourself based on your experiences and knowledge and choose to do faith or not. A nice thought - you don't have to choose right now. I have been all over the world, observed many cultures and religions, seen the best and worst of humanity and I still believe that we (man) are unique and special. That fuels my faith - that we are worth more than just biology and time (which we invented). Why - because it helps me focus my life and thoughts. If I am wrong I have lost nothing. If I am right I have gained everything - see, faith.

I appreciate your site and the chance to exchange ideas. I can not find a way to abbreviate what I have written here so be patient with the book. Ask me an easy question and I will write a much shorter answer ..... enjoy your day .... john

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 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that think4yourself is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
It's interesting to note that a lot of the believers admit that there may not be a god, that there's no proof, and that they believe because they want to, not because they have to in the sense that you have to believe 2+2=4. It means that on some level they accept that they may be wrong, whereas on no (reasonable) level do I accept that 2+2=4 might be wrong. So I think your question, firebird, of why people "can't accept" that there is no god only applies to a small extreme fraction of the believers. Most can accept it, they just prefer to think that there is a god, just as you prefer to believe there isn't one, without proof either way. And I'm with you there -- I don't believe that there is a god. The older I get, the further the world seems from my childhood ideals, and the less reason I have to believe in something greater.

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 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that shadowcult is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I think, the only reason that people have to believe in a god is because they cannot come to grips with the fact that after they die, that's it. There's no big show no final destination no end of the rainbow, and people cant except that.

But what I think swims a little deeper, I know for a fact that I am thinking right now and that, no matter what, in this moment I am typing this. So you can take that into your mind, and with reasonable thought, come to the conclusion that when you die its not the end for you. For other people you died and your gone. In your eyes, things fade to black but are you dead? Your conciseness will always exist in the time that you are in. so by use of that logic the moment I am righting this note will live forever, in that moment my soul is eternal in that moment. I will exist forever because my forever is only the time in witch I exist.

That might have gotten confusing, I am sorry if you could not understand it my mind seems to run on and on. But my point is, the only time you are aware of is the time your in nothing before nothing after. So in that time you are immortal.

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"Emotions are for the weak minded, so cry me a river build a bridge and get over it."
 44yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that rollergirl is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
i come from a very large family of (some may call fanatical) christians. they believe god exists as strongly as, or even stronger than, they believe 2+2=4.

the reason i say "or stronger than", is because they believe god created math and everything in it, so he is greater (and more real) than his creations.

however, i think i'm personally more like the character think4yourself described. i can admit that i don't have any "proof" that god exists (that being his inherent nature) and, as such, never get into logical arguments about whether or not my beliefs are right. i can't prove anything anyways. it all rests on faith.

i sort of agree with shadowcult's first statement, but not whollly. i don't think fear of death is the only reason for religion. i think fear of life is at least an equal reason. people want to feel like they have "someone" watching out for them and taking care of them. they don't want to be fully responsible for the repercussions of their actions and decisions and, as such, let god be in control.

it's very soothing to think that you have a "heavenly father" that only wants the best for you and is always looking out for you. very comforting and encouraging when things go bad.

personally (now we come to the personal bit - hah!), my beliefs (from my upbringing and childhood) are in turmoil lately. things i see and things i know no longer coincide with the logic i was taught to have "faith" in. not only do they seem contradictory now, but they also seem hollow and unfulfilling. i'll be sure to keep you posted on the thrilling developments to come...

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"get busy livin' or get busy dyin'..."
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that shadowcult is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The one thing I don't understand the most about god is, He says in the bible that he loves me more than my mother and father could ever love me, and he expects us to do the same.

My mother and father could never condemn me to eternal damnation, but god who loves me so much more will???

That dose not seem right to me.

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"Emotions are for the weak minded, so cry me a river build a bridge and get over it."
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that melon_gibson is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I have pretty strong views on religion. But I think I'll just give you a taster for today.
I personally believe that Jesus did not exist and that the bible is a fictional creation. I know that some people say that there is evidence of Jesus' being and etc. But I just dont agree. In my views the bible is a good way of living the life but a fictional story. It's like 2000 years down the line now people will be worshipping Harry Potter saying that he was some kind of God. Why can't people just wait and see what happens to them when they die. there's no need to be obsessed with what happens to you when you die. Some people just find a religion because they are scared. I don't mean to offend anyone. Cause hey what do I know? I guess I'm just a kid.

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"Live by the sword die by the sword"
 54yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Looks to me that all of you are very agreeable.

I do not have to proove God exists, and He does not have to.
God doesn't condemn you, you condemn yourself.
In the final jedgement you have, you will be filled with the ability of God to have all knowing power. You will be given the ability to judge yourself...or so NDE's say.

I knew a guy who died, and he woke up in the morgue with a toe tag. He says there is life after death. But hey, don't have to believe me or him. Right?

The question is this, IF we who believes, dies and we have no after life, but lived a good life according to God's word, we have lost nothing and have enriched those around us.
IF we do not believe, and we die, and God exists, we have lost an eternity.
If we believed, and die, and there is a God, we have gained a wealth in eternity.

BUT, I have no doubts, as I have seen many miracles in my life. And have seen some true heartache.

BUT each their own. I certainly have never been able to convince folks of otherwise, cant start now. LOL

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"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that XsEyes is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I am reading I believe this and I believe that. But really all that is being stated is opinion, and unqualified at that. How can an opinion on such an esoteric topic be qualified anyway? Who could possibly know that is available to speak on it? I suppose we can only make educated guesses based on extrapolation and relation to things we can qualify. Taking that view, there is actually a large body of scientifically verified "near death experiences". One may scoff at first mention of this term. Oxygen deprived hallucinations, hormonal reactions, something like a dream, or just plain lies. Interestingly though many of these people came back and were able to describe highly technical medical procedures performed on there "dead" body as well as positions of the people in the room, all from a third person, detatched perspective. I think more interestingly though, those who described "religious" experiences all described similar events.
The really wierd thing though is Christians met Jesus, Buddists met Bhuda, Muslims - Mohammed and so on. However, regardless of the Diety, what they described happening was almost completely invariable. I Am not saying that because some people that none of us have probably ever met came back from clinical death and gave similar reports to doctors, whom we've also probably not met, who then printed a compilation of these accounts we should throw up our hands in relief that one of the BIG ones has finally been solved. My personal tendancy is to believe that knowledge is the combination of information AND experience and one with out the other is an incomplete picture of a thing. I mean would you pay a guy to strap a parachute on you and push you out a plane at 10,000 feet for kicks just because that guy read some books on it but never actually himself did it? Well I wouldn't anyways. Call me crazy. I'm not an aethiest, but in the abscence of incontrivertable proof its really all just theory isn't it? I actually shy from titles, but I guess if I had to I would say I'm agnostic. I just don't KNOW. I'm desperately seeking one who does though. Don't mean to challenge anyone's ego or snatch anyone's security blanket I'm just giving my opinion, and that's all it is huh? I'm new here but I like what I see; people talking about stuff. I think we need a lot more that in the world.

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"A wise man knows enough to know he knows nothing"
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheTruth is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I think the question is easy to answer. The "world", or society rather, needs a safe haven to believe in when they die, so they choose religions that will benefit them in this respect. It may seem selfish for a person to throw himself into a religion just for the sake of "after death insurance", but I fully believe that a great deal of people do this, perhaps even unintentionally.

Also, much like eternity and the idea of something that does not begin or end, people cannot fathom "Not Existing". In fact, I cannot even begin to describe in words how much I cannot understand that concept, and if anyone else can something is probably wrong. Not even having the freedom of having your own thoughts, speaking, moving, interacting with people, or even knowing what is going on CANNOT be understood. Reaching your end of life and finding out it really is your end will be the worst thing people will face when they die. Then again, they won't be alive to face it

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"He who refuses to seek will never learn"
 46yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that brann22 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
If you think about it, its more about living then dieing. Believeing gives you a sence of joy. You feel happy and loved. Thats what its all about. Being nice to people, making yourself happy and others happy. I admit, I havent read the bible but, I know i believe and love Jesus. Im not a bible thumper but, God is # 1 in my book

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"Why try so hard to fit in when you were born to stand out!!"
Religious beliefs
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