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what's the logic in x dying for our sins?

User Thread
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that patape is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
what's the logic in x dying for our sins?
didnt have enough room for title.. but meant what is the logic for jesus (or anyone) to die for (or becasue of) our sins..??

im not being persuasive i really want to hear some reasons that i can at least somewhat agree on.. casue right now its just not clicking.. i know you can give reason for anything.. thats why i was hopping to hear some 'good' reason..

humans are sinning.. some guy dies becasue of that.. so you can confess to him

???????????????????????????????????????????????????

i know the story, but just doesnt make good logical sense to me right now

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"no quote until i copyright it.."
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zato is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Well what I was always taught was that God hates sin and will not be in its presence. Humans sin naturally. God loves us so he wanted to find a way for us to be able to be with him. So he must enable a way for us to rid ourselves of sincere sin. If we try our hardest to repent than God can forgive us of what sin we still had on us when get to him.
By jesus (God) dying for our sins on the cross he enabled (somehow) the ability for us to enter heaven if we repent. HOW this actually works I have no idea. Jesus was holy and pure completely so by logically taking the eternal burden of all of humanities sins forever this saved us persay. I guess.
When it comes down to it I think that since Jesus was so pure he was able to take sin as a whole off human shoulders. This was possible because he was the perfect human when it comes to sin atleast. So by being so pure he could handle it....
Makes sense to me kind of..lol

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"Anything is Possible when you think illogically."
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Jacker_Jones is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I was raised catholic and I still don't understand how through Jesus' death we are saved from sin. I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church doesn't even know the answer to this.

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"I love to see people struggling for their purpose in life..."
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
its like when you and your buddies go on a robbing spree and you get busted by the cops, then one guy takes the fall for it. you and your buddies are the christians, the cops are morality control and jesus is the guy taking the fall.

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zato is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I don't think an anology will work with this situation well at all.
I always felt that guild did play a part in the role of the church and in all of christianity in general for that matter.
I think though that when it comes down to it it is what you believe goes.
Do you believe Jesus was SO pure that he could bear all the sins of humanity? And!!!!!! If you do believe he is this pure HOW so does he actually bear these sins?
Is it because he is the son of God? Who knows these things?
Because he is(maybe) the son of God does this really enable the ability within him to bear all sin. Is it an act of God that we as humans can/may not fathom?
What makes sense?

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"Anything is Possible when you think illogically."
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that etherealmeekle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
It is necessary to keep everyone feeling guilty. When people feel guilty, the Church has the power to provide them a means of appeasing that guilt with whatever they wish to have done for political reasons.



Again Decius makes a fool of himself by professing his ignorance of Christianity. Jesus died so that we do not have to live in guilt. Maybe when Decius gives gifts he does so with the intention of making people feel guilty or to make them feel the need to repay him. But that is not God's way. God gave us a gift by having Jesus die in our place. Because we aren't perfect we could not get out of the debt that Adam and Eve had put us in. So God paid the price for us. The acceptance of this gift allows us to be free from the bondage of sin.

The reason of it is simple. If you wish to aquire an item you must pay for it. If someone steals said item it must still be paid for by someone.

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"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that patape is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
ok but isnt that selfish on our part?? "yes i love this jesus story i know its true" (psych reason.. becasue relieves guilt) hey im human it works.. but thats reason for it to be us...

and with that view.. (jesus died to relieve our guilt) makes less sense to me than jesus dying to make us feel bad.. and i dont think decious would agree with the part of your analogy on giving gifts.. it should be more like decicious hurts or kills himslef to make people feel guilty especaily if he states that he did it to benifit us.. ok now i see your point then in that anaolgy nevermind.. i think... but anyway if decicuis were right that would be another pscyh reasons to belive in jesus feel bad for him.. as well as so we dont have to feel bad about our own guilt.. (btw nothing personal or i dont know if i sound mean but not just arguing)
n i sill dont se logic in jesus sying for our sins.. unless its becasue of those resons which seems so obsqure becasue are psych reasons benifitng us..

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"no quote until i copyright it.."
 67yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
See, Jesus dying gave birth to the new testament. The old testament described a god that was much more angry and vengeful. It demanded far more sacrifice of people and this is why prostitutes were stoned, along with homosexuals and anyone else deemed to be a sinner.

Actually you see an example of how GOd desires for us to handle these situations by looking at the acts of Jesus. He comes into a village to be met by a procession taking out a woman to be stoned for adultery. Coming upon [jesus] a rabbi, they seek his blessing [reassurence] on their intended actions. His response " He, who is without sin cast the first stone. None being without sin, only one could cast the stone but He choose not too.
quote:
im not being persuasive i really want to hear some reasons that i can at least somewhat agree on.. casue right now its just not clicking.. i know you can give reason for anything.. thats why i was hopping to hear some 'good' reason..
Somethings are hard to explain, so is this question. OT says that man by the nature of his being, would seek the life of those in authority[GOD]. So we see as in Roman Empire, ceaser being slain by brutus. man's aurge to rule [lord] over others give rise to our societies & their wars from the beginning of our history.
Man was made as a vessel as a physical body with a soul.
GOD ordainences were given to teach them how to live (socially) and promote spiritual awareness by seeking the right relationship with GOD. The advent of Christ coming signified that (some) man was prepared for transition in his status (evolution) but few were found to be so prepared, Jesus accepted the cross so we could continue for a time that more could be prepared for the transition.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
[  Edited by cturtle at   ]
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that wholly is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
jesus did not die for our sins, he died for his sins. the new testament makes that quite clear. he was a political criminal, and that is what they did to political criminals back then. hell, we still do it now. jesus was travelling across an area controlled loosely by the roman government causing civil unrest and assulting tax collecting roman officials. he had assembled what could easily be construed by the authorities at that time as a mob. and they were preaching a dogma and a way of life that was contrary to the convention of the times. that would get you crucified in the middle east to this day.

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"dont got one"
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that 730 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Jesus's death is an example.....he didn't die for our sins...he died to show us our sins...he died because of pomp, pride, and neglegence of the powers that be at that time. His entire life was a prediction of what would happen in the future....that's what happened to him when his spirit was returned here on earth for his second comming. That's what happens to every true believer after he accepts the spirit of the Almighty. Jesus praised only the almighty.........why would we worship Jesus then??...why not just praise the almighty and immitate the life of Jesus and find the true way of life?........I guess people are lost in vanity now adays and the idea of being like the poor dude sucks!!!...

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"Being is not knowing!"
 44yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that PeteSmith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
This is a copy of a post I made previously:

I think before we can fully understand what Jesus did on the cross; we need to look at how mankind came to need a saviour in the first place.

When God created Adam and Eve, he created them in his image and gave us an ability to fully experience a loving relationship with him. But for love to be able to be fully experienced you have to be free to choose whom to love and also be free from any intervention that would cause you not to be free to choose.

God gave them a choice to obey him (a sign that they chose to love him) or disobey him (a sign they chose not to love him). He placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden. That was the only tree in the whole garden they could not eat from. This tree represented that choice. They, as we know, choose to call God a liar by eating the fruit from the tree after the snake (satan) convinced them that they were not going to die (as God had said they would).

5 things happened when they ate the fruit.
1. They saw they were naked and ashamed of the way God had made them and covered themselves. The good self image they had of themselves died.
2. They were suddenly afraid of God and hid. There relationship with God died.
3. They blamed each other and they blamed God. A social alienation occurred (a death of unity between one another).
4. Their work in the fields was now going to be hard work. No longer was the ground going to yield an easy harvest. Child birth for the woman was going to be hard work. Work was not going to be enjoyable any more. A death to fulfilment at work.
5. Adam and Eve are now going to die.

Can you think of any more comprehensive death than this? It happens at every level.
We all know and experience these 5 things in our own lives.

Things get worse because God gives us his law. The law was not to make bad people good but to show sinful people how dead they really were. The law can control our external behaviour but it does nothing to our hearts where sin starts.

Man had to make atonement for his sin by sacrificing animals. This was only ever a temporary atonement for sin. It had to be done every year.

Jesus came as the supreme sacrifice, a once and for all atonement for sin. How was he able to do this?
1. Jesus was born from a virgin in whom the Holy Spirit had placed the seed. He was fully God and fully man. He felt pain and was tempted in the same ways as we are.
2. He was perfect. He led a sinless life. God says in the Bible that the price of sin is death. Because Jesus did not sin he was not going to die. He was the only person who could truly saw I choose to die, thus he was the only person qualified to pay the price for all of mans sins past, present and future. We cannot say I choose not to die. It is an inevitability that we are going to die. We deserved death for our sins but Jesus took our sin and paid the ultimate price for them by dying on the cross.

Some say Jesus was just a good moral teacher but if that is all he was, he was horribly over engineered. He was perfect. None of us could ever hope to be perfect without Jesus. Jesus didnt come to make bad people good, He came to make dead people live again!

How do we respond to Jesus?
1. Recognize that we need help (confess that we are sinners in need of a saviour).
2. Believe in your heart that He is the son of God and that He has paid the full price for your sins.
3. Confess this with your mouth.

This is just a very brief explanation as to what Jesus did on the cross for us.

The Bible is the best place to start finding out more information about who Jesus is and what He has done for us. A great book to read on this subject is :Lee Strobel's - The Case for Faith.

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""What we do in life echoes in eternity" Maximus"
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that etherealmeekle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
even though it contradicts itself and is probably manufactured,


People always say this and yet they can never give any examples.

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"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
 31yrs • M •
DDragK is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
even though it contradicts itself and is probably manufactured,
--------------------------------------------------------------------



People always say this and yet they can never give any examples.


Can you prove that the Bible is not?

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""Flying is nothing more than falling at the groung and missing""
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that etherealmeekle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Can you prove that the Bible is not?


Innocent until proven guilty. The onus is on you to disprove it. God is the author so take it up with Him

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"Speak out, even if what you have to say is unpopular"
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that wholly is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
the four testaments of christ's life were choosen from literally hundreds by a group of roman politicians. each of the four has an underlying message abouit how to be a better citizen of the state. that is why each was incorporated into the work. furthermore the earliest testament of the life of christ was written over 50 years after his death, sounds like a pretty accurate account, huh?

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"dont got one"
what's the logic in x dying for our sins?
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