what is your theory on life? - Page 3

Ok, conway. I completely understand what your saying. I cant say your wrong, and i wont. I only disagree with any of the theories and philosophies on here because i have a different perspective. I cant see what you see, so i present questions and oppositions in hope that you will present an answer...or more thorough description for me to come to terms with what your thinking. I really have nothing but complete and utter admiration for those who have different views, and can present reasons in which they've interpreted them...in the way that they did. I know im an asshole, but im not trying to be. Im attempting to get others perspectives.

..anyway, these conversations are worth while. I get tired of everyday chit chat about weather or clothing...this is really sex for the mind.

ok, but i've been thinking a lot...and i have this shit typed out. So if you'd like, just review it. State your opinions.

Nothing i say should be taken to heart...its only an alternate way in which to see the world we come together in...and the world that may not


Perception.

Truth.

Third Party.



Third party is our will, its what drives us. it's the reason we make decisions with no logical reasoning behind them. Some say decisions are influenced. Whether it is known by the choice maker or not. But that is an interpretation of what someone perceives to be.

Truth is what is...regardless if we know or see it. Regardless if we don't perceive it to be.

Perception is the only certainty you will ever have. Your choices on how to interpret it, and how to apply what you've interpreted are yours. Can be influenced... but what, is your decision.

The third party may be us ( in some non-physical form or another ). In fact, I perceive it to be us. The only True us. The mind and body are simply just tools at our disposal.

Understanding, and defining help bring our perspectives into focus. Just a little better. For hundreds of thousands of years people have been speaking of a third party. Whether its god, the devil, spiritual encounters and voodoo rituals. Whatever it is. Science has been working so hard to throw a sheet over this idea for so long. But what cant be proven wrong, cant be discarded. What cant be proven right cant also be held as scripture and followed.

But humans continue to run into these unexplained events and awkward perceptions. Some will choose to label these people crazy.

Crazy: 'Persistent mental disorder or derangement. No longer in scientific use.'

Crazy is but a word, but what the word implies...J Their speaking of a mentality. Science. This world is based on logic and reason...at least this is how it is perceived. With our physical eyes.

Science will never comprehend a world that I speak of., that some still believe is and can be. It Hasn't been proven to be wrong...and it wasn't just some out of the blue idea either. We cannot explain some of the things people do. And we label these, with words that have been created on an entirely different level. A different level then the unexplainable has been derived from. I can see, for convenience sake, in conversations and such. But we do nothing more than we can do. Which is contain these 'crazy' people, and keep them from altering others perceptions and choices.

But I think these crazy people are closer to this third party world. A world that has been a controversy since the application of logic and reason. ( The over-application )
Third party is completely written off as a combination of both mind and body. Its only left open for discussion because there are still some out there who believe that it exists.

We really don't know for sure. All we know is that its unexplained, and there's something in the human body that cant be brought to be proven.

I think because the crazy people are less and less apart of the world we live in, that they have accidentally, or purposely ran into this third party place.

Or..they could just be crazy. No tests we run or any amount of CAT scans will prove this to be true. Only
that they have uncommon brain activity and can no longer function in the world that brings us together.
So in this world, they are contained. Because they are a lability.

Why is everyone so unhappy with the world? Is it random events and bad luck?
Do you see bad luck in death? Or do you see reason? Maybe there's a reason for Physical birth and physical death. Maybe, it's a big, beautiful, catechism. One giant part made of many smaller parts. Designed to not only test our limits, but our faith in this third party.

We are limited in this world.. By the extent in which we can express our third party. Art and application are a combination of this world and the other. Sometimes you see more of one than you do the other.

This may be why certain people have certain tastes. Some will allow themselves an opportunity to consider a third party. Some will not as often do so. This creates a ratio of acceptance and rejection. (choice)

Most people who are proven to be mentally ill, or have mentally developmental problems...would probably be more drawn to a Picasso painting then a Norman Rockwell.

If my insanity theory is correct, then that someone is drawn to a Picasso( or a painting with a majority of third party influence ) because strangely enough, it resembles something they're familiar with. They recognize the third party influence, and it is much like there own. A similar ratio.

It all lies in choice. Someone who is totally insane may prefer a scenic painting. Much resembling 'real' life. Maybe they want to see or feel something other then the third party majority influence. But I don't see insane people going for a scenic picture...at least not without wanting to alter it a bit.

We all attempt to express ourselves in some form or another. it's the ones that seem to be consumed by something that we are most drawn to. The expression of an obsession.

When you see someone completely consumed by one thing, you may take them for a fool. But when you start seeing this obsession alter their life, you begin seeing a power. Unexplained. Something they've chosen as a major influence, has created this perfect piece of them. They are whole. They have no ambition. They can feel nothing but a constant comfort that cant be described. There's no need for ambition when you've found what you looking for, or when you feel complete. Ambition is but a tool at our disposal. It is the result of the perception of a need or necessity.

Some will mistake this peace and comfort with a definition. They find what they believe to be truth. Whether its a theory (such as this one) or a phrase, even a number that they've chosen to believe sums up 'the world'. and they start to feel superior, or more like they're on top of things.

It may be a continuous circle of uncertain explanations...but truth remains. Certainty remains...somewhere. Whether we believe it, or see it.

Egotism is another result of mistaken wholeness. If you are whole, you have no reason to feel your above everyone else, but only that you've found something that makes 'you' better.

Egotism limits your perception...and after all, your perception is the only thing you can be absolutely sure of. Or the interpretation of.



And yes, even if its not always right.

ekiump It is true that you could be right. You have used logic in arriving at your beleifs. But however no matter what you beleive it is nothing more than the same beleifs as others have. As I said to beleive in thigs like what you do is pointless. Why? We have no proof in anything. It may be that you are being deceived by an alein.(lol) All beleifs are irreleveant. All anyone can do that is fullproof for the eternatl future is go through this life with hope that one day they will reach the ultimate enlightenment

we can also disscuss philosohy because that is all we have in the end , and I agree it is sex for the mind. I am also intrigued with your ideas. I am glad to know you ekiump as a fellow philosopher

yesssssssss....ha!

but i believe that every expressed thought proven right or proven wrong..takes us that much closer. I cant believe that there is not a point in discussion. Because how much better does it feel to express oneself and have another understand him? Mind sex babeh...

But as a philosopher, as i and both you consider yourself to be..you will feel a need to continue. You have that tool of ambition. You have the third party pushing you to draw conclusions and make observations. I dont refuse to believe there is no point. But now i thoroughly understand where you came to the conclusion.

I feel that in order to fix what is wrong, you have to better it. Thats common sense. But how can you fix what is wrong if you accept the way it is? Different levels of acceptance are wise. But being selective with these levels is the key to alteration. Knowledge is power, but knowledge isnt everything. Knowledge is another tool, that without the right application, would be nothing to us.

Keep an open mind, but harness you beliefs. If they are proven wrong, and you thoroughly understand that it is not correct..then dont be afraid to let go. Lord... does this debase a persons character, but it takes us forward.

I believe that in the whole of people, there is good. Deep down at the base of whatever it is we are in, we are attempting to bring into focus our lives.

I believe its because we want to follow the right path. We want to take a route that shows us just how much more there is than what we already know.

Emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually...
Knowledge is a stepping stone. For something we may never find in this lifetime.

Not to bring all this self-centered..ness into my point...
but why do you think i pry so hard everyone, although it looks like im being a dick?

I want different perspectives, i want to compare and contrast.
If i never find what im looking for, thats just fine..because its a great thing just to take the trip.

Stepping out of my shoes and into someone elses, while knowing the things i do. No matter how miniscule the knowledge i obtain, or the amount of application put to use...i tried. There was something i felt to be true, and i supported it with evidence. Evidence that was interpreted very unbias, and impartial. From different angles of the spectrum.

Life can be everything, but life is certainly not "nothing."

Even the ego-maniac sleepingwraith, knew that there was something...existence.(no offence sleep...)

I remember there was a time where i saw everything as pointless.

But the choice you make to continue making a difference..in a positive way, is what makes us that much greater...and thats what initiates change.

The reason you can live..and find a few constants in this world, is because you understand that there are those like you. Who havent lost themselves in this shit hole.

Some people are still impartial, i see those who say life is life..and thats it. When i see this, i feel like they see no problem..and if they do, why not attempt to change it. Do they believe its not possible?

Some people give in, hoping that something will come along and pick them up, out of their misery..lonliness...etc...

The only thing..in this world thats going to pick you up, is you.

Choice one again...comes into play.

I have deep admiration for those attempting to make change for the better.

Im going to stop before i go too indepth, and the heartless vultures disect my psyche in hope of destroying me for their entertainment.

They are many cruel, heartless, lifeless beings out there. Too many for me to consider becoming one.

I apologize to anyone whom i may have offended. I just want to express to everyone that any criticism of mine, is purely constructive. They're not personal cuts..just cuts on your theories...

..man im a dick.

.

perception is "not" an interaction between one part of existence and another. You do not simply interact by perceiving something. You interact after drawing conclusions of what you percieve, and you then make a choice to outwardly express it...( or whatever it is you want to express) Via, writing, speaking, punching, hugging, killing...w/e. any of these actions.

Even though it starts with perception..perception is not the cause of all things. It is only the stage in which everything is decided.

Perception is a givin, it is the only action that we do, whether we want to or not.
Since perception is not a choice
It is the only thing we have concrete..and we cant change that.
It can be altered..but for as long as we live, we are going to perceive.

Perception can show a lot...even if it is obscured or valid. You choose what to accept.( i think i already stated this )

Certain things can sway a choice... But no event is the root of any choice. It boils down to us.

Cause and effect have nothing to do with our ability to choose, except that it is a by-product..or result of this unknown ability to choose.

Choice is one thing that stands out above all logic and reason.
The ability to choose has no cause..that we know of. But it can create cause..and result in effect. And maybe an "infinite chain of cause and effect.." but then that wouldnt be infinite...

Im not talking about "a" choice..but the ability to choose.

Choice is not chemicals in the brain weighing out cause and effect. Everything about the physical human body is a tool. And the choice of how you apply any one of these, is yours.

it boils down to us.

left or right...

I know what you mean when you say infinite cause...and in a sense your correct.

But the small space left over..in that moment of choice, we control cause, and effect.

Choice is the cause. effect is the result.
.

You ekiump have no proof that man has the abillity to choose. It is possible that man does not have free will. It is possible that fate exist and if it does than you can have no real choices. If you are fated to be poor than you will be. Trajedy in our lives is what depresses us. If you have not faced a certain level of trajedy than you are a natrual optamistic. Once again it is possible that God exist as a being that wants nothing from us and just created us because he was bored. It is possible that all of us philospheres will burn in hell for an enternity. Sad out comes exist as well as happy one's. All we can do is hope. As it was mentioned earlier life is in the end left up to us. We may not have freedom of choice but if we don't know that we don't it isn't worth worrying about.

Our ability to know we exist is all that's certain. Even if we don't exist, this would mean we would be decevied, but in order to be deceived we must exist. Our existence is what gives us our right to the end of all end's . The final point in enlightnement. This point is to be as a God. This is what I try to reach every day in my life. This is all that truly matters.

But i am certain humans have an ability to choose. Fate doesnt necessarily mean "you dont have a choice". Fate is a term that describes what will be, what is to come. What has been.."predetermined". It doesnt mean that; the choices you make or dont make, wont lead you to that.

In order for fate to exist, they would have to.

But choice is the push of the domino...

Fate exists as nothing but a word, to describe something we dont understand, or what we peceive might be.

There is no moment in existence but the present.
Past and future are just words, used to describe something that is not in existence.

Im not saying neither have, or wont happen...but they do not exist. Whether they have come and gone, or simply havent been born. The only thing in existence is here, and now..with us. .


A small room for error...

If fate was an existing thing, and everything was predetemined and mapped out, everything working together to get everyone and everything to one space or one moment.. Or whatever it is, that fate has decided should be.Then our ability to choose, would throw its perfect balance off.

This margin of error is what makes us who we are. The moment where we decide what we do, and where we go.. it then becomes a matter of which we control.

Left or right. Up or down. Sure, unsure. Truth, lies. The world is full of choices. Heck, you even have a choice to choose.

" to error is human.."

This margin of error.. is the reason why, there is more than routine, and logically mapped out purpose and reason. More than cause and effect.

More than the words used to describe things, that our frail minds cant get around.

Words are used only for communication, and as an attempt to bring into focus what we cant see or dont understand. Because we are human.



You cant predetermine. Fate does not exist.

The only certainties are here and now, in this moment with us.

Which is all that exists.

although, conway. I do admire your faith in God.

I prove that i am, drawn to those who seem to be consumed by something. And you have an overwhelming faith. Unfortunately, i envy you much..( dont tell the big man )

lol. I guess we're all searching for that wholeness to be consumed by. But we want to be sure its real. Deception is something that no one wants to fall victim to,
unfortunately..like you said before, all we can do is believe in our individual.. beliefs. and have faith.

But those who do not have the wholeness, search for it.
Its been proven that most psychologist, and anyone who goes into a more "individual" type practice of any kind, has had deep psychological problems in the past. For some reason or another...which would enable them to see a different side of life then most are accustom to.

I personaly prefer to beleive in choice. It is a hard concept for an indivivdual to beleive.(the lack of choice). But never the less it is possible that we don't have it. But now I think I have begun repeating myself. For me I think the saddest possiblity that exist is that we could all be wrong. That philosophy and the search for truth is as irrelevant as desginer style clothes. This could be fact. The eternal end of man does not have to be happy. Futhermore Godhood is to be everything. That means that to be like God you are more than logic. You are chaos as well. God does not have to make sense. And this is what scares me. This is why I try not to "follow" any certain beleifs. Because all beleifs yours as well ekimup are based on what you feel is most logical, and I am inclined to agree that your logic is sound. However as I said God is more than logic and reason. And if this is so than he is more than our faith that we base on logic alone. That is why all we can do is hope. And Hope is seperate from faith. Faith is beleiving without proof. I find that ingnorant. But hope is the desire that even though one knows that there is no final truth to have, he strives to live anyway so that he may find the end point of einlightnement, even if in the end it doesn't exist.

One must always have an element of sadness in all of their philosophys. Because sadness brings one closer to reality. Not only in this life but in the realm of philosophy as well. Don't get me wrong happiness is apart of this as well, but the sadness balances it out.

Im not saying there is sadness. How much closer to the real worlds way of thinking can i get? Other than to support my theories with evidence. Sadness does not always have to be a factor.

The reason sadness, and negative feelings are used to draw peoples attention back to reality, is because its like sniffing salt. ( or w/e its called ) Its a giant slap in the face to sober you up..and make you quit day dreaming.

I im a grounded person.. Im down to earth. Sometimes the things i say can sound crazy. But i understand that no one sees like i do, so i must show logic and reason in what i say. Good logic and reason if i am trying to thoroughly allow others to understand what im saying.

Everything i say, or think..is logical. My theories are logical.

You choose sadness. If sadness is the only thing to keep you in the real world, then great. use it! But sadness is just as important or rather, Not as important as happiness. Happiness is not necessarily something fools feel. A very cynical person can be happy.

If you know well enough that the world isnt perfect, that there are some really fucked up people and things in it, then you dont have to constantly remind yourself of it. You dont have to bring sadness into something, where sadness is constantly present.

It is there. Sadness prevents us from enjoying ourselves. Since most people dont use their brains much anymore...sadness is required sometimes, but only to help you realize. Sadness prevents joy, and many people find joy in doing stupid things. If you havent realized this..then im sure sadness plays a major part in what you feel. People think they can do stupid things, things in which they have no real reason or drive...no will. Negative or positve..they're just doing them. Without using their brain. Pure impulse. It is our choice, but its a foolish one. When the world is no place for you to aimlessly wonder about, at least not without the right knowledge, It will slap you in the face.

In the book of Ecclesiastes, Solomon writes that the world and all in it, is pointless. He mentions sadness being the oly place for the wise.

"The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning, but the heart of fools is in the house of pleasure."
"It is better to heed a wise man's rebuke, than listen to the song of fools."

Which this is true. But fools know no bounds. Fools are not mentally sound. They do no use their minds. Solomon was raised on a belief in God. When people believe in God..(unknowing people) they assume that God controls all.

But if people follow the bible, it states we have free will. God has no control over us. He could intervine..but he wont. That was his gift,(so the bible states). Peoples praise his blessing, but spite him out of their own faults.

People object to the smallest thing, and blame it on God. People look at the world, and what it is..and blame God.
People will not think for themselves, because they believe fate will guide them. People expect God to utilize what he has given us..to utilize.

People will praise him, people will spite him. A wise man will understand that it is what it is. He will change what he can, But he will not always rely on God, to do for him what he can do for himself.

Sadness is used to make you realize another side of the world. Once you understand the other side, you can do as you wish with the knowledge. Past sadness and realization, you see that you are now enabled, to use your mind.. without the slap in the face.




Im not sugar coating anything. Im stating what i see is, or might be. knowing i may be wrong. But i support it all with evidence. The world to you, is what you see in it. The choice you make to come to terms..is yours.
I do assume you have hope

You talk of enlightenment. Ignorance will not allow it. An ignorant man has blind hope and blind faith.

When i say blind, i mean that they do not understand why they have it. They have been told that it is the right way. But our minds, our clockwork minds..find a hole in that idea somewhere as we grow, and we begin to think for ourselves.

This is when we begin going through our own trials and tribulations. We begin choosing what we absorb. We start drawing conclusions...and they may be proven wrong at any point in time. But thats how you learn, it hurts...but hopefully if you continue,you'll find what your looking for.


It is wise to consider that anything is possible.
But.. relying on a single tool of the human make-up, is undeveloped managing and utilization of truth.

A wise man considers anything to be possible, but an enlightened man knows it to be.

I find what you say to be wise ekiump. However sadness must take it's part in all philosophy's because it is a part of man. One can not just take parts he finds appelling and use them only, on the bases that if he knows sadness than it is irrelevant because he already had had the 'slap in the face'. If this were true than the same may be said of happiness and joy. They are nothing more than the other extreme of the pole. Happiness is there for no other reason than to pacify us in this life. So then if we find happiness once are we always pacified. Of course not. So also is it with sadness. We must always take into account the negative possiblites with the good one's , if we do not then we have only half of a philosophical beleif. God (if he exist), wich I beleive he does, is not just happiness as everyone is inclined to beleive. That is why I think that there is more to trials and tribulations than just to wake someone up. In fact on hindsight it is probley more than just to bring people back to reality. It is there to help us learn. So with out negative feeling than we learn nothing. And sicne we can not reach the end on this earth we must accept sadness in all of our beleifs so that we may learn when we are wrong.

I know I am terrible at spelling, (lol). Probaley even worse at grammer. However we philosphers know the irrlevance of these things.

I thorougly enjoy these philosophical debates, they are my life. I hope that we can continue these debates. Most of all I hope that we can change this world. Saddley I do not think it is our place to do so. So I hope we can do some good at least.