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Excerp: Truth of War - Page 6

User Thread
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Facing The Ugly Truth

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/?Page=Article&ID=3223

Here you'll find a video that pretty much explains why all the violence in Iraq. The story you haven't been told. Be warned, it will make you angry, it might even make you cry.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
poser - what truth have you spoken, I've not heard none. All i've heard from you is insults and name calling, what kind of truth is that?

My moma taught me better than that.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 396yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that poser exposer is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
12 posts in a row, and 2 after that... isn't that SPAM? i mean that's OBSESSIVE and ABUSIVE of the forums here isn't it? what a delusional leftwing nutsack...

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"i hate cRap!"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that St. Jimmy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Shut up. What he is doing is a good thing.
He has a right to say what he wants as long as it isn't Hate Speech.
Grow up

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"He who does not question is lost."
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
White House: Newsweek Story Did Great Harm
By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent
2 hours ago

WASHINGTON - The White House said Tuesday the United States' image abroad had suffered irreparable damage from a now-retracted Newsweek article alleging that American interrogators of suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, desecrated the Quran, the Muslim holy book.

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2005/05/18/135
032.html


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-

This has been somewhat of a hot topic lately, I was wondering what other had to say or thought about it.

The point I'd like to make is how rediculous it most likely is in a few ways, one, this is by far nowhere near the first mention or allegation of this, and if that sparks stronger riots then the actual abuse of the people then something simply doesn't add up.

But even this article speaks of factions other than actual peaceful protesters sparking the violence, which is very, very, very important.

I think its rediculous because,

1. No "holy" book is worth killing over, period.

2. This is old news with multiple previous allegations and witness testimony.

3. We are torturing people, even to death, TORTURED TO DEATH, and this is the concern, and torture tactics include every form of psychological manipulation, ESPECIALLY RELIGIOUS! Making it SOP. (standard operating procedure, as with the rest of the torture which is both admitted and denied, ok but also ending in prison for low lvl soldiers and a reserve officer losing rank?)

4.The White House is claiming a tarnished reputation due to this story... ... And I don't even think they are joking.

5. This will most likely end with either no real investigation, or whitewash, but that of course, is speculation.

6. If outside forces were culpable for the violence, then other very serious possibilities as to who and why violence was started exist. Another point of speculation, but an important one none the less.

7. And whatever I forgot and whatever else that we will most likely end up hearing about this.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Ha here's some more reasons...

Q: Do either one of you have anything about the demonstrations in Afghanistan, which were apparently sparked by reports that there was a lack of respect by some interrogators at Guantanamo for the Koran. Do either one of you have anything to say about that?



GEN. MYERS: It's the -- it's a judgment of our commander in Afghanistan, General Eikenberry, that in fact the violence that we saw in Jalalabad was not necessarily the result of the allegations about disrespect for the Koran -- and I'll get to that in just a minute -- but more tied up in the political process and the reconciliation process that President Karzai and his Cabinet is conducting in Afghanistan. So that's -- that was his judgment today in an after- action of that violence. He didn't -- he thought it was not at all tied to the article in the magazine.



General Craddock, our commander of Southern Command, has been in Guantanamo for the last couple of days digging into this issue to see if there was a time when the Koran was not respected. I can tell you that the version of the Koran that we provide to detainees is approved by the ICRC. So we're very careful about that. They have looked through the logs, the interrogation logs, and they cannot confirm yet that there were ever the case of the toilet incident, except for one case, a log entry, which they still have to confirm, where a detainee was reported by a guard to be ripping pages out of a Koran and putting in the toilet to stop it up as a protest. But not where the U.S. did it.



Now, there -- so it's something we're going to look at. That's still unconfirmed; it's a log entry that has to be confirmed. There are several log entries that show that the Koran may have been moved to -- and the detainees became irritated about it, but never an incident where it was thrown in the toilet.

quote:

it's a judgment of our commander in Afghanistan, General Eikenberry, that in fact the violence that we saw in Jalalabad was not necessarily the result of the allegations about disrespect for the Koran...

He didn't -- he thought it was not at all tied to the article in the magazine.





http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2005/tr20050512-secdef2761.htmla >

and a little more

Newsweek Got It Right
http://www.rense.com/general65/gotit.htm

Britons formerly held in US camps allege they saw guards desecrate Koran
http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=42096

Red Cross raised Guantanamo Koran abuse concerns
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050519/us_nm/religion_koran_icrc_dc_2

There were freakin hunger strikes at Guantanamo over the issue which had long since been confirmed.

"Last month, a former American interrogator confirmed to The New York Times an account given in an interview by a former Kuwaiti detainee, Nasser Nijer Naser al-Mutairi, who said that mishandling of the Koran once led to a major hunger strike."

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"it's a judgment of our commander in Afghanistan, General Eikenberry, that in fact the violence that we saw in Jalalabad was not necessarily the result of the allegations about disrespect for the Koran...

...He didn't -- he thought it was not at all tied to the article in the magazine."

So if this isn't the big deal that the White House is apparently declaring, why are they making such a big deal out of it?

This is where propaganda and psychological warfare become a good thing to be aware of.

Here's a perspective that is along these lines.

quote:

Newsweek Koran Story Is Multi-Layered Propaganda

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2005/170505koranstory.htm


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
(How do you keep the Media subverted on important issues such as the war on terrorism? Don't forget who got some of the Anthrax sent to them from an American military facility, not to mention congress and the senate)

Union rep: U.S. troops
killing journalists
President of Newspaper Guild echoes claim of ex-CNN exec

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44335

ITV journalists 'killed by US troops'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1175197,00.html

U.S. and Iraqi military forces detain journalists
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=8262

Excellent video links on the subject
[quote]
http://www.independentmediasource.com/video2/breaking.htm

http://www.independentmediasource.com/video2/independent.htm


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Newsweek wasn't wrong - how would they know that their article would start a riot. And personaly, I think if it wasn't that article, it would have been something else. I think there is a great deal of frustration out there. This has become in the eyes of many a Christian against Muslim thing, and the Muslims are being slaughtered, imprisoned, etc.

Everybody knows that copies of the Koran were thrown in toilets. This is not new, that had been reported long ago. What is new is that the tolet got flushed. Why would reporting this now cause a riot? Simple, they are getting frustrated. The answer is not to get after Newsweek, but our evil administration who is breaking every law that once made America great. If things continue, we will be under the rule of China or Saudi Arabia paying our debt to the world bank. We are going to far, and I am ashamed. If we end up falling under China or Saudi Arabia - I think we will have deserved it. But there is still time to change the course we are on.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"how would they know that their article would start a riot"

It didn't.

General Meyers said:

"it's a judgment of our commander in Afghanistan, General Eikenberry, that in fact the violence that we saw in Jalalabad was not necessarily the result of the allegations about disrespect for the Koran...

...He didn't -- he thought it was not at all tied to the article in the magazine."


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Afghan prisoners were 'tortured to death' by American guards

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=640070

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:

''That night he told me everything. How they drugged him, ran electric currents through his body, put out cigarettes on his neck and broke needles under his fingernails."



Russia's 'war on terror' tainted by brutality and corruption (Ya, I'm sure their the only ones too.)

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/21/wruss21
.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/05/21/ixworld.html


quote:

But now, egged on by a Kremlin that will brook no dissent, local security forces are running amok and terrorising the entire population with impunity.

In the vanguard of this new wave of Soviet-style oppression is the local branch of the notorious organised crime squad, known by its Russian acronym UBOP.

It was UBOP officers who beat Rasul to death because he refused to sign a document implicating himself in terrorist activities. His only known crime was to have once met a man who allegedly went on to become an Islamic radical.

At one stage during Rasul's torture he was even hauled, semi-conscious, in front of Anatoly Kyarov, the acting head of the regional UBOP. "Has he signed?" Kyarov asked, according to Rasul. When they answered no, he told the men beating him: "Continue with him then."...

During a visit last week we were continuously followed by car loads of government security men.

A local reporter told us how she was punished by having cigarettes stubbed out on her fingers after helping a German journalist last year.

But trouble only began last year when local authorities shut down all the mosques in the city bar one.

''We were all dragged off to the police station.

''I was made to lie on the floor of a police truck and beaten with fists and batons."

Hundreds were detained and tortured.

Valeri Khatazhuro, the city's human rights ombudsman, said: "The men they arrested were held in cells and beaten.

''They were forced to shave each other's beards off with rusty nails. Crosses were cut into their heads."

First police were sent to the mosques where they wrote down the names of young men. Then commanders scratched off the names of friends and relatives. Those who had rich parents were approached with a view to extorting bribes to get their names removed.

The remainder were officially proclaimed to be terror suspects.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Black market organ trade is Baghdad's new growth industry

Ali Hameed quit his job as a taxi driver because he no longer felt safe on Baghdad's streets. Increasingly desperate for money to help him get married, he hit on a once-in-a-lifetime business opportunity - selling one of his kidneys.

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/22/wirq22.
xml


Afghan president pressed on opium

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4570157.stm

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Vets Sue Rumsfeld Over Health Care Cuts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5029737,00.html

When was the last time a politician had their health care majorly cut from an already half assed operation?

How people can live with themselves after sending kids to war then not treating them like anything short of royalty in taking care of them is beyond me. Well, not really, there are heartless criminal in power, I'm not so surprised when they show their true colors anymore, I just stay surprised that we let them continue.

Somebody needs a bitch slap, they have been cutting this for years, all of Bush's time for sure, and probably far longer than that.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
Excerp: Truth of War - Page 6
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