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Universe : design or necessity? - Page 4

User Thread
 40yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I still don't feel you have any good reason for thinking life is "most likely" only under and intelligent (god) source.

That just borders on religious reasoning.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 30yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that secret07 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
heres another proof for intelligent design. according to the cell theory, cells can only be created from other living cells.

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"life sucks but its better than the alternative"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"I still don't feel you have any good reason for thinking life is "most likely" "
Its not that its more likely, its that without God it is extremely unlikely. In the vast majority of hypothetical universes, all we have is helium and hydrogen, you can't have life in those cases.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"heres another proof for intelligent design. according to the cell theory, cells can only be created from other living cells."
The "first" cell was not really a cell, just some self replicating protein, it eventually evolved into a cell.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 40yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
DT the thought that makes me feel differently about that is that its not so much what is around ( as in materials needed for life), because obviously what is needed is around, for me its more of the thought of how much motion is around, with such energy as to fling galaxies around, the building blocks will be shaped and tempered continously allowing for "life" as we know it, those basic elements can be changed and combined in ways unknown with such power.

But it also comes back to my point of view on the complexity of life, I have seen little other than seemingly interesting and unusual inventions and buildings of man, but have not been convinced by man's meager displays or capacities to feel such life warrants such special attention, we are as autonomous as the universe itself, we live our cylces and die in more cycles, the universe and all its parts and pieces act, and are no different in terms of concept, only in understanding of physical form and function, yet all to the same end.

This is kinda what I meant when I said life is just movement, a specialized form if you will, but not special in essence of life. We are but the rolling snowballs of evolution.

Regardless, all basic questions and lacking answers still stand, about god, purpose, and just what it all means.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Life is self-replication.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 40yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Life is life replication, feeding off of life, not self replication, that's a term more useful for pure and successful cloning. As with people, parts of areselves are mixed with others and a new self emerges, I don't know if you even meant that but oh well.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Life is copying itself. I dont see where the ambiguity is. Granted, we dont literally make clones of ourselves, but there are many techniques to self replication.

In humans, that technique involves only copying half of ourselves at a time (the other half being our partner), but its still self-replication. That's my definition of life anyway, and not all universe would allow this to happen.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 40yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Didn't get that memo.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
?

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 40yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Life is decay, bacteria etc. lives, to destroy, we think we live to build and create but the only thing we know for sure is what we destroy, I don't see the grand value of life.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Who said it had value?

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 40yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
When one claims a design to life, they often defend the notion with the claim of a life value, usually from a religious perspective giving value based on a god purpose and design. Why do people feel human life has value? It has been issued many times on many threads I believe this one included.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Well sorry if I inferred that. I was saying that the conditions that would create life are extremely rather, and in most hypothetical universes, life would be impossible.

If the universe was created randomly, there would probably be no life. Hence it is unlikely it was random.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 40yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Ok, I would like some form of repeating to cease here, what information do you have that makes you think life so unlikely under random circustance? You keep referring to lacking materials, and conditions?

Well, if the universe is based on some sort of big band theory or just something that has all of the materials available at the very begining, this either means you run out eventually or it makes more. Either way its left to the conditions to make use of whatever amount of materials there are regardless.

And as for the conditions, what kind of conditions do you think it takes to create life out of raw materials? From what I've gathered through science, it takes some pretty crazy circumstances, circumstances very likely to be found in an expanding universe. The amount of energy it takes to propel a universe full of galaxies and solar systems away from and into eachother is staggering, but its this kind of mixing of materials under varying degrees of pressures and tempratures that has been claimed to have created life.

I can't say I know how much of anything is out there other than a whole lot.

How far off from life is a sun, they are born in a sense. I asked this because a question occured to me, I've heard we need the sun to survive, much like we need food or water, well, life feeds on life right, and life has often been compared to energy, then maybe all these things (energy sources) are forms of life.

I understand your thoughts about how finicky and tempermental the conditions are for our existance as is, its just that it seems to me that there are going to be different circumstances and many different kinds of life because of it. If you use us humans to compare all life by, well, we come up pretty short sighted.

(from chance of life to value, specifically religious born value of life)

Its amusing, and a bit scarey, to hear people like cyber sit there and tell you the non value of non human life, that we do little more than project our emotions on such entities that are so obviously inferior, then go on to tell you that they know this because some superior entity is trying to convince us lesser entities that we are special, well now that makes perfect sense, appearantly inferior beings are worthless unless of course you are human, then all the rules change.

Don't you find it a bit odd that religious explanations for existance are so similar to any fairy tale, I mean, you wanna talk about projecting emotions, a god of love? Give me a break, hypocritical is a word, look it up. Contradiction is an important word to understand, please do so.

And tell me, just what is life?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
Universe : design or necessity? - Page 4
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