The God Thread

Decius - you are right, unfortunately, I just recently joined the Unitarian Universalist church - and even they are disappointing. They have an agenda, and if you're not apart of it, you're not one of them, as I am learning. They have the truth, and everyone else is wrong.

I am tolerant of hard line fundamentalist christians. Because I used to be one. I believed that only the King James Version was the word of God. Something deep inside of you tells you that this is not true. But you deny it, for fear that the devil is tempting you. But after you've made a hundred enemies, broken about 10 bridges and been married more than once. You realize that maybe this something inside of me telling me that this isn't right isn't the devil tempting me, it's the truth trying to save me.

I'm going to go off on a limb here and say what I really believe. Some of you might really think I'm nuts. But that's ok. I have some documentation that supports what I believe - but I wouldn't go as far as calling it proof. There was a Christian church that practiced things that I never heard of before. And the gospel they followed no longer exists. We know this only by a letter from long ago that had been uncovered. Just like we know that there were indian tribes that just disappeared off the face of this earth. The true Christian church has already been resurrected before the creation of the Roman Catholic Church. That is why, though some churches claim that they go way back to the original, they can't prove it. The Roman Catholic church is the oldest documented church around today. Nobody knows for sure what happened to those Christians who lived in the catacombs under Rome. That's what I believe. And I don't know what that means for us today. but - we are now in the age of Aquarius were the truth shall be reveled. Currently there are teams working on dead sea scrolls that have yet been known to us.

Concerning this One God thing and these other false gods. You don't know - you just think you do. You don't know if these gods are a creation of the one true god or that they are different parts of the one true god. Or, that maybe god is not a person. In fact I believe that God is greater than we can know. (thou we now see everything through a smoky glass, in the end all things will be made clear.) Therefore, we don't know, we just think we do. Concerning the Word of God - I don't think it can be written down. Inspired words were inspired in their time, in there place, to a given people, under a particular situation and may not apply to today. However, words written today, may vary will be inspired and have just as much merit for instruction as the old scriptures.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

I don't believe in an almighty God. As I see things, we all try to believe in something because we humans want to understand everything. Many people (including me) suffer because they cannot understand what the world is all about. Even with science we are still limited by what we can know because we are just humans. I'm sure there is a truth, I'm not saying that believers are wrong (for all I know they could be right) ,I just think the TRUTH is too complicated for us humans...

Blalm : I think there is no such thing as absolute truth. Because no matter how much you try, you're beliefs will always be shaped by your point of view and so will never be absolutely true.
We only see the universe subjectively whereas the truth is objective thus we cannot ever believe in the truth.

I do believe however that we can get closer to the truth because as science has shown that things can be disproven and proven to an extent.

"AIDS is God's way of sending Catholics to heaven."

"[qoute](myself) Decius - you are right, unfortunately, I just recently joined the Unitarian Universalist church - and even they are disappointing. They have an agenda, and if you're not apart of it, you're not one of them, as I am learning. They have the truth, and everyone else is wrong.[unqoute]

I was wrong. I was a bit frustrated as there was a yahoo group here in Oklahoma who claimed to be UU and were persecuting fundamentalist ideals in the name of Benjamin Franklin. Well I said was - they are no more.

We all have the right to our point of view. And we have the right to share our point of view. Even with those who dissagree. But sometimes we falsly believe that everyone else has to see things the way we do, it is then we go beyond sharing, and that is persecution. We should not tolorate, support, or be a part of any such things.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

I believe in my God, just not anyone elses. Maybe some others see it my way, but most do not I'm sure. My god is undefinable, yet definable paradoxically..He is no gender, per se, but also abstract and allegorical/metephor and symbolic, yet in an artsy way, real.

He is the light, energy, the force, life, etc. Whatever that is, my god is. I like to call him Zeus, Thor, Donnar, Jupitor and the whole gambut of Pagon sun/thunder gods from south to north and east to west, and these visions are only still held by a few holdouts from the JudeoXian invasion. Borg.

Savanthar out. Not totally, just for a bit. Shazam!!!

"Born again skeptic."

Looks like we have two new people here - Welcome

I think Curiousity is in our nature. We were created that way. We will always be curious. Always searching for the whole truth and never finding it - for it is more than we can comprehend. However, it can make for a very interesting adventure.

You have your God, I have my God. My God may be different than your God. But I bet it's the same God.

Your God sounds interesting. I want to hear more.

Roger

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

The gods worshipped by man were all created by man, not the other way around. If there were a god omniscient, man wouldn't be able to understand the entity's essence and would hence be incapable of explaining it to other (wo)men. If there were a god who was omnipresent and omnipotent then this universe is an utter perversity of cruelty and evil; it has little to do with compassion and love. Personally I don't feel troubled (not at all bothered by some weird sense of guilt) for having this opinion - a god with aforementioned qualities would not have given me the opportunity to do so if (s)he would get upset by it and would not have given me reason nor the ability to come to these conclusions. The vast majority of the world's population exists in abhorring circumstance while a small minority is wallowing in decandent affluence. This would be the first thing true followers of a true god would try to change, yet hardly anyone bothers to make a significant effort. Living in prosperity implies having responsibility, yet all I see happening around me is people trying to defend the riches they have against those who have less and they call themselves believers. These are the ones who run the world: http://www.vaticanassassins.org (read the 'Kolvenbach' link at the left) and this guy gives all the believers plenty to re-consider: http://www.skolnicksreport.com but all most worry about is their second or third car, their home cinema systems, digital cameras etc. Of course no one should feel personally addressed by this opinion. Especially those who have sound arguments against it. Have a nice day!

"We are all blind to what exists outside the scope of our awareness"

Rage - the only part I can understand that you're talking about is that you shouldn't feel guilty. No - you shouldn't feel guility. As far as the rest of your post and the links. All I can say is, "those black helicopters are watching you."

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

I guess the general assessment one could make about black helicopters is that they are somewhere between fiction and reality. But there is an abundance of hard to obtain information available on the web that contains argument to be taken seriously and by it's nature makes it rather difficult to justify the involvement of a good god with this space and time.

"We are all blind to what exists outside the scope of our awareness"

Sorry I don't have anything poignant to say, but I just had to say I like Rage's answer to the god question. Very thoughtful and with deep understanding and a very human, humane, philosophy. Many ackolades. I do have to say though that even though humans do spend a lot of time liking 'things' and the external world in all of its beauty and spectacle, we are often reminded of what is really important on the inside (like when we experience health crisis and sickness) and how prescious life itself is without all the external hype and really pointless items.

It is said that when a man has nothing to lose, like family, friends, loved ones and a house/home, etc. dogs/pets, whatever, then he isn't afraid to die. This is true. We are afraid to die because there is so much to live for, even life itself, but when all is lost, we are alone and ready as we ever will be to go (hopefully in sleep after living a full and happy life, as good as it gets awyway). Peace and love all, on this inside as much as anything on the outside.

God? I think if there is a god, then maybe we can't comprehend him and perhaps this is all part of his joke on us? Maybe he is playing a joke, however sick I don't know or even if he is there or playing a joke, but whatever his sense of humor is depends on how you philosophize it or are affected by it in this world of joy and tears. Too much. Got to go.

"Born again skeptic."

I fully agree that there is a God far above our understanding. But why so negative? If you personaly are in suffering (sickness/hunger/homeless) I feel for you. But if you have access to make a post I would rather think that you're not too bad off. I feel myself that I have much to be thankful. Possibly even a little spoiled being an American.

However - If we would have maintained the natural order of things like the indians. Been a friend to nature rather its enemy. We might be in a better disposition of ourselves, our world and our god. All things were not by chance. Choices were made

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

I think the social responsibility that we should all have weighs heavily on someone like Rage, who in all honesty, is absolutely correct.

Western culture is defined by a low attention span and lazyness.... comforts are what people seek here, not necessity. We need nothing in the West.

It is much more difficult to open your eyes to what you are causing than to close your eyes and enjoy the malls, the television, the media, the Britney.

Why so negative kid?

Negative because an international conscience IS negative. The world is a cesspool of capitalism and exploitation.

I suppose those that face this truth steal the very peace from those that choose to close their eyes to what's going on. It negates their decadence.

Mind you, I'm no angel. I live in some ignorance by choice, but highly commend those that sit alone and empathize with the pain we are causing with our comforts.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

"Negative because an international conscience IS negative. The world is a cesspool of capitalism and exploitation. "
What's the alternative? Communism is pretty nifty but we all know how that turned out. And I don't think there is a problem with capitalism itself (when there is a want, let companies fight to fulfil it the cheapest) but with advertising. We are swamped by huge amounts of pointless advertising who do nothing except CONVINCE us that we need something.
After we stopped living with so much pointless luxury, the demands of the 3rd world might be more important, and the companies would go there.

"AIDS is God's way of sending Catholics to heaven."

Advertising is one of the pillars of capitalism Crimson. It is one of the defining points of competition.

Decadence is the culprit and I can't really suggest a solution. But I do acknowledge the state of the world.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Advetising is nescessary but not under the form we know it. Advertising should be used to communicate meaningful, useful information which can convince you that something available is better then what was previously available (either quality or price).
As it is now, because of the way advertising works, the quality/price of the product is no longer the sole major thing which determines whether or not people buy it. On the contrary, the way advertising has been perfected over the years, is your skill at advertising not your skill at making a good product, which determines whether or not you can sell.
For example, I just recently saw a GAP commercial where Madonna sang with some other singer. That commercial told me nothing, except two singers were paid by a jean company. Despite this, GAP's sales are likely to go up. Its just feels so wrong to me.

"AIDS is God's way of sending Catholics to heaven."