AFTER DEATH - Page 3

My personal Weltanschauung (philosophy of life) is not one I usually share with others; however, I do enjoy studying and contemplating other people's views regarding this subject. I suppose this is the main reason I minored in philosophy and am now finishing up my master's degree in English literature.

If anyone is familiar with Browning--the Victorian poet--I am writing my master's thesis centered around his own teleological argument. His strong curiosity in what critics call the "grotesque" side of nature led him to write of melancholic knights, base noblemen, and vivacious monks in an effort to proclaim one and one thing only--that the whole of life was good.

This is a very optimistic view--especially for people like ourselves who are living in a post-modern world full of cynicism and secular thought.
Browning believed that every single human experience, including suffering, pain, sorrow and sin were all extremely necessary. We should not turn away from such hardships but embrace them because they are the food that helps our souls develop. Browning also felt that imperfection was important because if we all lived perfectly sane and comfortable lives, we would not experience our humanness nor would we allow for our souls to develop. If anyone has read the Romantic poet, Keats, he had a similar philosophy in which he states that the world is "a vale of soul-making."

Anyway, Browning helps pacify my own cynical tendencies about life. He is real and accepts reality and all the distastefulness that comes along with it.

I previously made statements about Truth which is my primary philosophy. I seek to be truthful, I am not inclined to deceive others and therefore dislike deception. I don't find it a worthy trait. As I tend not to deceive others, I try hard not to deceive myself which is harder than one would think, we love to justify ourselves with our deceptions.
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We should not turn away from such hardships but embrace them because they are the food that helps our souls develop
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Did a sweat lodge in which one of the participants was confornted by the pain and emotional conflict of the death of a friend (lover). All though the person had died over a year ago this person is still not dealing with those emotions. I see truth in these words which you have conveyed to us as demonstated by the participant's needs to overcome the grief from which she had been hiding. I pray that in releasing (expressing) it, she was comforted by the experience and may come to acceptance.

Melkor - I believe in heaven because I believe I've been there. I remember before I was born. But I could not stay there, I had to come down here.

I had a dream that I was a bank robber, after leaving a Lutheran church a bounty hunter shot me three times in the back and I died.

This has impacted my life because I know there is a better place to be and I am not afraid of death.

On this board I'm bold and brave, but in real life I'm meek, mild, quiet and keep to myself. I think in my earlier life I was a big tough guy and I used it wrongly, so in this life I am not so tough. (This is called the law of Karma). What comes around goes around, not always in this lifetime.

Some really interesting answers- Thanks!
My own philosophy- I Beleive that in everyone there is stuggle- to say between good and evil is an oversimplification - but that is close. We strugle with our basic primal urges to some degree which is in opposition to our civility and compasion. There is good and evil within all of us.
I don't beleive in an afterlife but despite this I have A moral code that prohibits me from doing certain things aside from the threat of jail. I try to see my life as a joyful meaning ful time from my teenage years to mid twenties I was so terribly depressed I lived such a grim life- I seriously wanted to do myself in but I emerged out of that with a much different view of life- and now- still I am so thankfull for all I have I am not rich or famous but I have grown to really love life and many simple things within it.

I like C Turtle's view on truth you are so right I find I decieve myself quite often- or at least ignore or neglect the truth when it is difficult to face. Speaking of past lives as well I had the strangest dream a long time ago- that I realized I was a servant of the underworld for many centuries and my reward was to live a lifetime just before the colapse of civilization a time i thought would be the best to live in but it turned out to be the worst- I was tricked into this strange life- starange dream indeed. I would like to think everyone is good natured but I know better.

thanks again for your responses to my querry.
hey how do add those fancy pictures beside your post?

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I try hard not to deceive myself which is harder than one would think, we love to justify ourselves with our deceptions.

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I agree wholeheartedly.

I find this statement quite interesting as well:

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We should not turn away from such hardships but embrace them because they are the food that helps our souls develop

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This whole discussion is interesting. Myself, I know I tend to get quite cynical, which at times doesn't motivate me to be patient and compassionate, which is probably not a positive state of being.

Max Ehrmann wrote a poem that I like quite a bit. My mom gave it to me about 10 years ago and I still have it hanging on my wall. I appreciate its philosophy. Here it goes:

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.

"This whole discussion is interesting. Myself, I know I tend to get quite cynical, which at times doesn't motivate me to be patient and compassionate, which is probably not a positive state of being."

I've gotten myself in trouble other places. So far I'm doing good here. I have to agree with Cturtle - sometimes I get to sounding like a prophet or something and I have to stop myself.

Sorry - I can't remember how I got my picture here. Click on your name, that will take you to your profile, you'll find it there somewhere. They don't give you icons to choose from, you have to upload from your computer - Good Luck - May The Force Be With You


Nice Poem

I need to figure out how to get my saying on the bottem?

I love the poem Aura - Nice piture to.
I have rumaged around my brain and I have nothing else to say. just some thoughts-
how does one qualify for heaven.
at the time of death does our consciousness continue on until say our brain decayes or losses all our electrical charge?- in that time perhaps we venture into a dreamlike state and find our own heaven or hell as we may realize we are dead.

here is another regaurding reincarnation- if we are indeed reincarnated are there x amount of souls? ie the population of earth is growing so are there more souls coming in or is the waiting period between lives growing shorter or do souls split apart becoming more than one ie. pmultiple people claiming to be the reincarnate of the same past person.

Do we indeed have souls? what is a soul? a predisposition? Are we not the sum of our experience? Are we of free will- now before you say "for goodness sake of course!" think about it- perhaps we are governed by complex innner drives and our conciosness sets up the idea of free will as a self defence machanism. - well Ok it is a stretch but something to contemplate. Still i beleive that at conception we are a blank slate able to become anyone from mother teressa to adolf hitler - nurture over nature.
well that is it my brain is empty

I think, dying is exactly like falling asleep, only without dreams and eternally. for me, this is the only logical explanation. just look at everything we see, hear, think, feel, smell, taste,... we are only able to recognize our environment because our brains are decoding all the information. but with death the brain stops working, so we neither see nor think anything. and thats exactly like sleeping. at least this is my opinion.

I can't answer how one gets, earns or qualifies to, for heaven - I don't even want to try - On that one, you got to ask the owner.

I knew a Protestant layleader in the Navy, he was a good friend of mine. He too had a problem with reincarnation, having the same theory, that there are only so many souls. And the world keeps getting more and more populated. But then again, that is just one part of equation we are not prevy to. There is a piece of scripture from the Gnostics that does make since to me. It talks about people being born with a false spirit. They will be bent on destruction and their only salvation is death. The true God will take their false spirit and give them a true spirit and send them back on earth.

Your free will theory or question. From what I understand - it is a mixture. We have been ordained a destiny - however, we can refuse to follow it.

On reincarnation. I think it would be possible to have reincarnation even if the number of souls is limited.
When there is less humans then souls, then you're soul is in stasis, which is essentially "on the waiting list" until someone is born who happens to be suitable considering your past lives.
If there are too many souls then you can be "born twice". What I mean is, you're soul is used twice in two different bodies, at the same time. This sounds very counterintuitive, but your body's limitation is not God's or your soul's limitation.

Dumteen: "If there are too many souls then you can be "born twice".

Now you're thinking outside the box - I like it

That's only a question that can be answered through observation, therefore we must die in order to understand.

Which is why people will have fun speculating randomly about death forever

But fun and speculation comes with confusion and much argument.