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There is no negative one...

User Thread
 46yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Black Gold is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
There is no negative one...
Well, my sign off... best reveal what I meant...
In fact it is a bit duplicitous...

Firstly, the idea that there is no negative quantity (I discovered way back in '96)...
There are no negative apples... there are no negative amounts of money... there are no negative quantities... Even anti-matter has qualities which appear much the same as matter...
There are no negative values, decreasing is approaching something not negatively growing...
To do the ideas that the minus sign '-' represents could easily be done by other notation and quash the idea of negativity... There are no negative directions, and graphs could easily be labelled better to show these facts...
There is no 'imaginary number' set as this relies on there being a negative one in the first place, a matter of quantity being represented by quality, where it does not belong...

Secondly, the idea that there is no real 'negative thinking'... This is a little more difficult to digest... That what appears as negative in feelings or attitude, is a (positive) justification for what is going on within... That things are, or are getting, difficult (a realisation)...
Pessimism can be described as just making a mountain out of mole-hill-sized difficulty... Exaggeration here, not negativity...

What are your comments?

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"There is no negative one..."
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that mikes is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I think it can also be argued that there are no apples at all. Everything we see, perceive and understand is based on models. They are never totally inclusive and are never really complete they just simply help us to understand and grasp certain concepts. In some of these models, it is convenient to think of negative apples, in others it is not. With the model of the world and universe as a whole you are right there are no negative numbers just like there are no complex numbers. However that is not to say that they dont exist.

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"thinking about doing something is just as good as actually doing it"
 37yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
well it depends on how you apprehend a quantity or model. How you perceive it determines if "is the glass half empty or half full of water?" (optimism-half full : pessimism-half empty). Now to logically answer this, you need to know whether something has decreased or increased (ie. 1/2 water has been drained off, or 1/2 water has been filled). Therefore in my opinion, there can be a 'negative one' or there can be 'no negative one' depending on your perspicacity.

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 46yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Black Gold is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I think the whole concept of there being negative numbers should never be taught at all.
A slight change in notation could prove greatly beneficial, although it may take longer and take some getting used to, it may convey the idea of what is represented currently by the '-' sign much better.
I don't think the idea of negative apples is useful at all, it's a falsely labelled quantity...
Imaginary numbers don't exist... hence the label 'imaginary'...
A decrease is merely a redistribution, and to value the full model of the more complete situation...
A half filled cup (yes to no negative)... A half drained cup (just an amount redistributed)...
Look at the Universe as a whole... there are no negative parts... why should this change just because we are looking at a smaller model...
Even if you claimed by looking at a smaller model, which is divisible, what is negative can still be explained by mere redistribution...
'Negative one' or 'no negative one', it's one or the other... for me, 'no negative one'...
What about you guys?
If you concur with me... 'What should be taught in school, to make best use of the system we intend to use?'

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"There is no negative one..."
 36yrs • M •
trappist is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
you said that if a cup was full of water then half is drained off, then there could be a negative one.

i don't agree, if half of the water is drained off then the number is transferred to a different state

this applies a lot in physics, i.e potential (stored) energy stored in a battery could be classed as 1, once this battery is plugged into a toy car and the car is turned on the potential energy changes to kinetik (movement) energy ( and sound but to keep it simple we'll assume just kinetic)

so the battery doesnt lose any energy it is just transferred. you cannot say, "because the battery has transferred its energy to a different source there is no battery" it is all a matter of transformation

10-1 is not 9 because that 1 is somewhere, its just not grouped with the other 9

if i have 10 apples and eat one i dont have 9 apples i have 9 apples and a full stomach, therefore i have 9 and 1 = 10

crazy

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"American chicks dig english Guys"
 46yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Black Gold is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I think Trappist has it there...
But some of my questions go unanswered...
Should we adopt a different method of notation for what currently appears as 'negative'?
Should we also teach in schools that negatives don't exist, and explain why?
Should we leave 'imaginary numbers' to history class instead of mathematics?
What do you guys think?

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"There is no negative one..."
 36yrs • M •
trappist is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
i think we still need to keep 'imaginary numbers' but instead of saying negative call it debt


you have 1 scarf and take away 2 scarfs
you are in debt 1 scarf

i would understand that a lot easier, and think about some little 5 yr old trying to grasp the concept of the universe being unequal

would be hilarious to see the look on their faces tho

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"American chicks dig english Guys"
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that eliasan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
you have 1 scarf and take away 2 scarfs
you are in debt 1 scarf

error in your sentence. How can you take two away when there was only one. It is an interesting idea you have about getting rid of negative stuff. You are correct well at least in my mind that there is no negative, having a negative is like saying that something took away more then you had which is technically imposible. You would have to break even at zero no matter what.

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"Fear nothing for fear is the mind killer."
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that mikes is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I think that one way to eliminate the problem is to state that negative or minus is simply an operation. Just like there are no negative numbers, there are no positive ones. +,- are simply operations like mulitplication. But like i was saying in one of my posts, sometimes its just out of convenience that we say that numbers are negative or positive. It might be useful is teachers actually stressed that point in class. Also we need complex numbers. Electrical engineering is actually based on these numbers and they are necessary to analyze integrated circuits, transistors, etc. Their use can be found in many other areas of phyisics and science.

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"thinking about doing something is just as good as actually doing it"
 46yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Black Gold is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Thanks mikes...
Yes, they do use imaginary numbers in a lot of areas...
I just think by definition they must have it wrong somewhere...
I am yet to read through or have someone show me where they are used, but plan to over time...
I don't know where they went wrong (if they did) I just think by definition they have to be wrong...
Perhaps the numbers cancel themselves out of the equations...
If anyone can expain or send links to sites that may explain how the numbers are used, it would be most appreciated...
I'll get back to you if I find the answer (when it's clear)...

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"There is no negative one..."
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that mikes is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/electricCircuits/AC/AC_2.html......I think this site might help. This is only an application in AC circuits.

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"thinking about doing something is just as good as actually doing it"
 46yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Black Gold is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
trouble with that link mikes...
I will google it or something...
Unless anyone has any other sites...

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"There is no negative one..."
 41yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that CodeWarrior is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
A great mathematician once said almighty god made the integers all else is the work of man. The truth of the matter is that number theory, the field of mathematics concerned with whole, usually positive, integers, uses more complex numbers and exotic mathematical entities than almost any other. These things fall out quite naturally in attempts to prove apparently simple things about whole numbers. In that respect you could argue they are just as real.

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There is no negative one...
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