Doing good: Universal Religion

In every religion there are going to be hardcore beleivers, and more moderate followers. I personally was a catholic, turned moderate zen Buddhist. My person opinion is that, whether or not there is a God(s), and whatever the presence of that deity, doing good will get you the reward. If there is one. To say that Ghandi wouldn't be good enough for a Christain heaven, while some of the more-evil people they say are would be ludacris. Basically, I believe that doing good, no matter what the happens at death, is your best bet. What do you think

I think that it is a valid stament but rember it is also dependent on how you define good. using the regular defintion, I would say then yes doing good is a good thing becouse it helps people.

quote:

---

To say that Ghandi wouldn't be good enough for a Christain heaven,

---

I've never heard anybody say that - but if you mention Ghandi, they make funny faces.

And a few of them will try to get away if you read to them anything Ghandi said.

I don't understand narrow mindedness. They believe whatever someone told them first, after that its history, they will never learn again unless possibly they wake themselves from this hypnotic trans. i was once in that hypnotic trans until I was 28. I guess its just how our mind works. We can only learn one thing at a time and we believe the first thing we learn.

I believe there is a heaven. I don't believe we go there until the rebirth when we all become apart of the creator, between now and then there are spiritual worlds we go for a time awaiting our reincarnation to further growth. Someone of us however who are really really bad just die.

But that's just guessing - I really don't know.

Salvation is the rebirth and if you follow the teachings of Jesus you'll get there - seeing Budda and a few other great leaders taught pretty much the same thing, I believe following Budda would have the same effect.

I do good because I want to do good, not because an invisible man in the sky tells me to do it. I think that's something to remember, why you're doing it. Some people are simply just scared of hell. Or they believe that karma will benefit them later on. True good deeds are given with no strings attached. Ask yourself why you walk the path your on?

"I do good because I want to do good" - jacker you took the words right out of my mouth.
Many people only do good because of fear of hell or reincarnation e.t.c. Such good deeds are really only good deeds in name, since the mind and spirit of that person doesnt develop any further.

A person only developes when the deeds he does is second nature, eveything else is really just a sub consious act

Doing good because you feel the plight of others and feel it your duty to help them is a true good deed, i spit on any desire for reward.

quote:

---

True good deeds are given with no strings attached.

---

I agree with you as well jacker.

There is so much more meaning behind doing good deeds when they are done of someone's own desire to simply help and make things better, not for the sake of reward.

In a way it makes me sad that so many people do good simply out of religious conditioning and fears. Many people don't realize the power they have as humans. Why take away from what we can do for each other and nature by putting the responsibility on god?

we put the responsibility, on god, because then we dont feel so guilty about putting our "evil" deeds on the devil. we want a scpae goat, but someone came up with the idea of balancing out the whole equation. to accept that you do good off your own back, is to accept that you do evil the same way.

i think the religious persuasion to doing good, is just strange. though doing good for a reason that isn't a wrong reason shouldnt be a problem.

Sadly though some people always feel the need to get something out of it. They don't give to the homeless because they think what has the homeless ever done for me? So religion is their alternative. They still feel good about what they do and they feel like their getting something out of it. That's why I try not to protest against major religions. It's stupid but some people need an alternative or a supplement so to speak.

quote:

---

I think that it is a valid stament but rember it is also dependent on how you define good.

---

I think this is a highly underrated point.

Good being a subjective word, there really is no definition, just opinion.

And when looking at the world through its balanced existence, good alone creates imbalance. Imbalance tends to eventually create an equal or greater opposite reaction. Is this the fault of bad, or the attempt to create too much good?

People don't bother to ask those questions enough, IMHO.

why does the existence of the earth have to be balanced? why does there have to be as much good as evil?

has the existence of the earth been balanced. id say probably not, ive heard of suffering on huge scales, but never seen any good appear on a scale anywhere near as large, or if the scale was as large in purely numerical terms, the joy to that number of people was not as great as the sorrow caused to the other group. for example what great act balances the suffering of the holocaust, or 9/11. sorry but balance = bullshit

Suffering and joy huh? People's joy is not much counted or reported now is it?

Human population and evironmental influence is in a state of imbalance as it has been for some time now, hundreds to a few thousand years.

The life span of the planet to date happens to be millions and billions of years.

Your concepts of time influence your argument. Things like the holocaust may be less likely if we didn't overpopulate.

So sorry, but your bullshit is all yours.

9/11? How about the war in Iraq? You'll probably never hear true estimates of loss of life, let alone torture, maimings, environmental damages and long term effects etc. etc.

But I guarantee it dwarfs 9/11, I'm sure innocent deaths incurred in Afghanistan far surpass it as well.

id love to hear how any of the things you mentioned at the end of your posts are good things? i admit, yes the war in Iraq probably did stop the torture and abduction, but has the actual death toll fallen?
even if it has, that is a small good compared to a huge evil that preceeded it.

I know we havent been on the earth the whole time, but to use that arguement would suggest that humans are the bad thing that happened to the earth. the idea of balance is a concept of human religion, even if it does exist, surely it would seem likely that there would be balance good and evil in human life. peoples joy may not be much reported, but while there are always people who are generally happy, there are also those that are generally depressed. but give me an example of joy being caused on the scale that 9/11 caused sadness and anger?

and for gods sake how the fuck can you blame the holocaust on overpopulation? the sheer unrivaled idiocy of that remark shows a lack understanding that makes it hard for me to take a single word you say seriously. the holocaust was enthic cleansing, brought about by a dictator using groups of people as scapes goats for the economic problems the country was having at the time. problems caused not by over population but by the sanctions placed on the country by the countries that defeated them in the first world war.
i apologise for the fact that that was off topic, but i couldnt let that go by.

but can someone give me an example of balance in our time? on a human scale, instead of the morbid idea that we get all the shit while the planet was fine without us.

The balanced lifestyle is most definitely a healthy one. The reason being is that things are either in order or in chaos. For instance take love and sex. It can be a beautiful free thing but it causes chaos. It causes prostitution, STD's, and sometimes hurtful emotion. Now you could put order to that through dictorial means. So which is more important the order or the chaos? In my opinion a balance is nice. Where some things are in order and others are in chaos. For some things need to be controlled, but yet other things are beautiful in chaos.

quote:

---

id love to hear how any of the things you mentioned at the end of your posts are good things?

---

Internal population control.

quote:

---

i admit, yes the war in Iraq probably did stop the torture and abduction

---

Heh, actually I was referring to the US torture of others.

And it doesn't surprise me due to mainstream media's spins as well as information omission. But I bet you money that abductions are up.

Little talked about and known is the US's and its allies let alone enemies penchant for human traffic, especially of youths but all ages as well for sex, and all ages for organs, and experiments. Some of it for ritualistic purposes and secret societies and religions.

Another thing one can never be too wary of about one's own government's claims against any proclaimed enemy is propaganda.

A perfect example is the proven lie against Saddam's forces discarding hundreds of babies while stealing incubators as proclaimed before and abused during gulf 1.

Not to mention things like WMD's today, especially those easy to detect like Nukes, we have ways of detecting those existing and being made with no need for inspectors even, this is true for quite a few other WMD's as well. That was always a lie. Not to mention years of the compliant destruction of them through inspections.

Not again to mention where most of his stockpile and knowhow came from, but that's another topic.

quote:

---

but has the actual death toll fallen?

---

God no, a main point of my comment was that it dwarfs any death tolls of both 9/11 and the holocaust.

And before you have a coniption fit about the holocausts numbers and ours against Iraqis, check the numbers bud, and know that I'm not referring to just the war now, but gulf 1, sanctions in between, especially on the heels of the Iran Iraq war, which we armed and otherwise helped both sides, far increasing any death, deficits, and loss of infrastructure which when combined with environmental contaminents affecting food and water and the closure of outside import of them through sanctions makes up the largest of the death tolls, a recorded 5 million dead children under the age of 5 or 8 before this war ever started.

As for since this war has started, I cringe to even think about it. Things like depleted uranium and its radioactive waste, used in gulf one, but far more amounts today, 4.5 billion years of radiation to come. Strap in.

Again, this doesn't even include all periods and facets of clandestine provocation and intentional destabilization.

quote:

---

I know we havent been on the earth the whole time, but to use that arguement would suggest that humans are the bad thing that happened to the earth.

---

How do you know we're not? We are one of the greatest threats to the existance of all life on earth, and perhaps the earth itself. In many ways.

There have been definitions for organisms who take over their environment, devouring and destroying it (their host) and themselves in the process, rather than coexisting in balanced harmony. Like viruses, disease. Things we tend to call "not good".

quote:

---

the idea of balance is a concept of human religion, even if it does exist, surely it would seem likely that there would be balance good and evil in human life.

---

Oh I'm sure, though the religion element is irrelevant, not to be facetious, because Viruses exist at all, I'm guessing they serve a purpose. I just don't claim to know it, besides a form of population control. Same as disease.

That and the fact that I'm a firm believer in the natural contradiction that exists in all things being both bad and good at all times. That balance always exists, even in an imbalance.

Yes this makes an aspect of even bothering to talk about this or anything kinda pointless, but hey, its seems evident, and yet so do the fun and seemingly useful side of such converations and debates. So why not.

quote:

---

but give me an example of joy being caused on the scale that 9/11

---

9/11 is one, do you know how many people mainly in our own military industial complex benefited from it? And still are? Not to mention the degree of patriotism and sense of strength and togetherness that came from it, except for american middle easterners and muslims of course, they were totally shit on. But second to that is yearly holidays. The end of all world wars. I think they trump 9/11 hands down. The only reason 9/11 was so hyped was TV. Which lots of people make big bucks on as well, through useful propaganda as well as the industry itself.

quote:

---

and for gods sake how the fuck can you blame the holocaust on overpopulation?

---

I didn't.

Its a problem, its an underrated source of all kinds of social problems and issues. Its one of those things you find when looking beyond things such as despotism, racism, economics, and the pesky neighboring country bullying you mentioned, its more towards finding a source to these symptoms, to finding why despots and these things are made and allowed to happen by all the people who let it etc. One way is through direct impacts on environment and health standards, both mental and physical caused by such things as overpopulation.

Overpopulation creates food supply and living space issues which create serious problems. Poverty, ignorance, class wars, and lacking education, all sorts of fun symptoms that aren't sources.

Overpopulation seems to be a critical turning point from environmental and human balance and coexistance, like with any creature micro or macro scopic. But I'm sure you knew that.

quote:

---

i apologise for the fact that that was off topic, but i couldnt let that go by.

---

No worries, we all, myself included, simply demand we be aloud to put our foot in our mouths at times.

quote:

---

but can someone give me an example of balance in our time? on a human scale, instead of the morbid idea that we get all the shit while the planet was fine without us.

---

Our time? As in the existance of humans or those of us alive reading this?

All humans, sure, before we overpopulated and lost touch with our world and environment and their needs.

Since us alive today? Sure, in those areas of seclusion where we maintain such balances regardless of degrees of education or technology.

In the developed world, probably not. That was my point.

quote:

---

It causes prostitution, STD's, and sometimes hurtful emotion

---

Um no. Sex causes not these things. Sex's inherent value causes prostitution, which there is nothing uncommon or unnatural about (fyi, straight up sex for money is least common existing form of prostitution, as opposed to, status, promises of commitment and love, gifts and incentives such as everything from dinner and a movie to houses and access to personal riches, number one may be a subconcious built in desire for highest available quality gene swapping)

Diseases aren't generally caused by sex, mostly just spread by it, but again, it is in no way comparable to say, breathing. Our number one means of disease spread.

Hurtful emotions, insecurity and chemical imbalances, most often caused by defects, abuse, and general trauma.

Otherwise I think you have a better grasp on the balance idea.

surely population control is a sorry excuse of an arguement for whay to have war and mass murder.
i'm well aware that trusting ones own government, and especially americas is stupid (i nearly wet myself laughing when i heard laura bush descirbing dubya as anti war).
despite the size of the iraq conflict, if it has dwarfed the holocaust i would be suprised, considering the fact several million people died during it. and the abductions bit, i just assumed you meant saddam husseins government aduction and torture or its own citizens, as for abduction being up not sure, there are a lot kidnappings etc, and mayb the US is abducting (or arresting secretly if they want to call it that).

i think the one difference between humans and viruses is that we have "intelligence". we could colletively manage to put a stop to a lot of the problems we cause. viruses are just genetically programmed. we have gone past population control and made several species extint.

i also think the "benefits" of 9/11 are questionable, someone made some money off it through tv, and a load of americans got stirred up into a near religious fervour which bush used to push a war.
the fulfilment of the american dream, greed and patriotism.