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Blessed Are The Peace Makers

User Thread
 62yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Blessed Are The Peace Makers
quote:
Published on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
Pharisee Nation
by John Dear


Last September, I spoke to some 2,000 students during their annual lecture at a Baptist college in Pennsylvania. After a short prayer service for peace centered on the Beatitudes, I took the stage and got right to the point. 'Now let me get this straight,' I said. 'Jesus says, 'Blessed are the peacemakers,' which means he does not say, 'Blessed are the warmakers,' which means, the warmakers are not blessed, which means warmakers are cursed, which means, if you want to follow the nonviolent Jesus you have to work for peace, which means, we all have to resist this horrific, evil war on the people of Iraq.'

With that, the place exploded, and 500 students stormed out. The rest of them then started chanting, 'Bush! Bush! Bush!'

So much for my speech. Not to mention the Beatitudes.

I was not at all surprised that George W. Bush was reelected president. As I travel the country speaking out against war, injustice and nuclear weapons, I see many people consciously siding with the culture of war, choosing the path of violence, supporting corporate greed, rampant militarism, and global domination. I see many others swept up in the raging current of patriotism. Since most of these people, beginning with the president, claim to be Christian, I am ashamed and appalled that they support war and systemic injustice, that they do it in the name of God, and that they feign fidelity to the nonviolent Jesus who gave his life resisting institutionalized injustice.


http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0215-21.htm

If you want to know how to follow Jesus - study the history of Ghandi. There is a man who could rightfully call himself a Christian, but didn't. This man walked and talked the gospel of Jesus, and in the end, he was murdered.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 62yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Well thank you for your support. - If you come across it, there is a book called peace pilgrim. Its a diary of a lady who decided to live for peace. She walked all over the country with peace pilgrim written on her front and back and was taken in by hundreds of people, this was during the Vietnam war. It was meant as a powerful prayer, she walked for I believe over 30 years, and she owned nothing except the clothes on her back. I believe Jesus would be something like that if he were here today.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that sleepingwraith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
.
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"Life is such sweet sorrow."
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheIrishPagan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Okcitykid I agree that the precepts of Gandhi are admirable. But I found the phrase '...call himself a Christian, but didn't. This man walked and talked the gospel...' to be insulting to his Hindu faith. What exactly were you insinuating please? If I am mistaken in my assumption that you were promoting the religious exclusion propaganda of the small core of Christian Fundamentalists, then please accept my apology. It would have been more proper to note his Christian-like qualities.

And yes, I realize I am "baiting the bear" so to speak.

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"Oops, it appears I have run over your dogma with my karma."
 62yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I think you need to study Ghandi again. Though he was maybe closer to the Hindu faith, he wouldn't claim it either. Many people would ask him, and he would tell them that he belonged to no religion, otherwise he would not have been able to make peace.

Don't confuse what the Christians teach with the gospels. Though they should not be, but often are different. The virtues Jesus taught are rarely ever taught in church. But instead they will preach Pauline to death, as if Paul was the messiah, I find it criminal.

Ghandi often quoted Jesus, practiced the words of Jesus and taught his followers to do the same.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheIrishPagan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Okcitykid I agree that Gandhi never claimed any one particular religion during his Peace efforts, but he was born and raised Hindu, and came to embrace it when he moved back to his native country, after his English education. From what research I have done, it appears he edged away from calling himself strictly Hindu only as he neared the start of his independence efforts. If you have links to some good material, I would appreciate it.

I had just finished posting a poison post to a certain UberFundie who frequents here. No excuse certainly, but all I can do is apologize if I offended.

What Jesus teaches, in my opinion, is the same codes any well meaning individual lives by, and is necessary perhaps for a well-run, 'happy' community. If you take away, forgive me please if I offend anyone, the heavy trappings of religious rhetoric used in the basic need of any religious institution to gather a large power base to stay viable, then those tenets that the Christ propose, are repeated in many other religions, including paganism. This of course should not be construed as a 'See, God is everywhere!' mentality; merely that Christianity and other religions share a common ground.

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"Oops, it appears I have run over your dogma with my karma."
 62yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Oh no - you didn't offend me - If I seem kinda cold, it could be that I'm just busy. I appreciate what you're doing here, I really do. And ofcourse no two people are going to see all things I to I.

The churches teach that Jesus died for their sins, and they must have faith in that, that's about all they teach about Jesus, and then we get pauls version of being a church member. The wife is supposed to submit to the husband like the church submits to christ. They don't teach what Jesus taught, at least not much of it. If they did, they wouldn't have voted for Bush and they would be demanding his resignation for being a warmonger lieing to the people and claiming to be a follower of Jesus. But they don't follow Jesus, that's why they are so willing to vote for war.

Ghandi taught the people, if they hit you, stand there and take it, let them. This was based on Jesus's teaching of turn the other check. He often quoted Jesus words. This was just unheard of. How are we going to possibly beat the british if we let them beat us up, and people died.

If we were truely a Christian nation - we would not have attacked anyone for what happened on 9/11. If we were a Christian nation, we wouldn't have one of the largest militaries in the world.

We call ourself a Christian nation and follow the god of Mammon, Jesus would not know us if he ever visited.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheIrishPagan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
If we were truely a Christian nation - we would not have attacted anyone for what happened on 9/11. If we were a Christian nation, we wouldn't have one of the largest militaries in the world.



On that I can totally agree. Any review of this nation's foreign policy, from day one, will see we have almost taken on the almost European type of colonizing, though we couch it in the guise of democracy. The earliest run in with Radical Muslims I can find is in 1909 in the Philippines, we have had ongoing troubles with our worldly neighbors almost since this country's conception.

I wonder though, if it is because of this Christian foundation, that we are having so much trouble? I am reminded of the tactics the early Church took, to push their doctrines into every corner of the world, no offense intended of course. You would have to admit that in many areas of the world, the monotheistic churches had to incorporate local traditions and deities to facilitate a change over of belief systems. This of course does not count military actions, and I am fully aware of the many atrocities and persecutions committed by both monotheists and pagans.

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"Oops, it appears I have run over your dogma with my karma."
 62yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I could be wrong - but I don't think it is the Christian teaching or faith. I think you will find it everywhere. The Jew, Islam, Aithiest Communism. I don't know really what it is. In every group that you could possibly create, nomatter how benovolent, you will have a click of violent people. They're violence may be in any manner of form.

I don't think there has ever been a careful study of "evil", but I think they're should be. There is a lot we don't know. But it is best for now to recognize it where ever we see it and make it known.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheIrishPagan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I totally agree that you will find extremists in every religion and segment of society, but we were talking of Christianity in particular. What I was referencing, was the quick spread of monotheism, and the possible threatened feeling those of other religions might have felt.

As to "evil", that might be best left to the Philosophers, as different cultures find different actions evil.

You can even find extremists in our Elderly population, just go into any Bingo Hall and yell "BINGO" J/K of course.

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"Oops, it appears I have run over your dogma with my karma."
 62yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I believe you're discribing the current Christian threat against Islam. The Christians would tell you that the current threat is Islam against Christianity. It just so happens that Christian domenant nations have more money and resources.

Peacemakers will sometimes make the mistake of taking the side of the underdog. But this is a mistake and the Christians are right, if the tables were turned and America was primarily Islam, Christianity would almost be wiped off the the face of the earth and people would be arrested for refusing to praise alah.

To understand how to stop this, we need to question how it got started. We started it, and it was fueled by our need for cheap oil. To stop this thing requires education, support to the poor under class of the world and end our dependence on oil. War is only fueling the fire, a fire that can only be tamed by dreanching it with blood, the larger it gets the more blood it requires.

Islam believes in Jesus too - they just don't believe he is God, but they very much believe in his teachings. This is the tool in the tool box left unused that could end this madness.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheIrishPagan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I'm not sure you can exclude history in this debate. Those timeworn, well-chewed over examples of the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition come to mind, although I do realize that both had more political overtones. Both Christianity and Islam certainly are not innocent of atrocities and forcible conversion, today or in history. In my views, today's conflicts are part of a ongoing struggle for dominance in the religious community, the US government's 'protection of our interests' in the Middle East merely recently added fuel for a long burning fire. If there was an absence of any historical conflict, one could make the argument that all sides would be more agreeable, and more willing to cooperate.

Concerning our dependence on oil, it appears that the Oil Industry is finally starting to lose its hold, with the advent of alternant fuel and power source research and development for vehicles and communities. Theories abound that state the powerful Oil Barons where suppressing such research. It blew my mind, back in the early '90's, when I learned a dairy farmer friend of mine uses vegetable oil to run his diesel tractors. I had never heard before that the diesel engine had originally been designed to run on just about anything. Makes sense to me, it's a renewable resource and burns much cleaner. Information, factual or mere propaganda, is one of the most powerful forces on the planet.


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"Oops, it appears I have run over your dogma with my karma."
 62yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I don't think that I am as familiar with history as you are. But I do remember reading how one of the Koran translators writes about being afraid of the poets posessed by demons and tried to imagine what that might have looked like. Both the Islam and the Christian religions have horrible histories. The Christian was far reaching where as Islam was just the middle east. We know more about the Christian then Islam because current dictators have suppressed information. But Islam and the Christian religion both have the same idea, they both have a goal to convert the whole world. The Fundamentalists in both religions want to force it on you, believing this is right, believing that we will or should understand that it is the only way. The modorates however want to only teach, believing that if we would only listen to their teaching we would be converted, and ofcourse all the bad stuff they conviently do not share.

If people, or even just the world was more important than profits we would be in much better condition.

The thing that bothers me about the oil companies or the oil barrons . They know we are running out, they want us to be dependent on oil tell the last drop so that they can maximize their profit. Therre are so many things that the media just so conveniently misses.


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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 39yrs • M •
rexwriter is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
I'm glad to see someone Christian had the courage to stand up and say what the truly Christian position on war is. I would love to see someone else stand up and say:
"Jesus taught us to pray for our enemies. Therefore, I would like a moment of silence to remember the lives of the Iraqi soldiers and to pray for their families."

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 62yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
rexwriter - I would call you a true Christian. I don't know about these people who believe in war and claim to be a Christian because Jesus would have no part in that. No where in the new testament is the church ever incouraged to support war.

I would make exception for those who believe they are fighting to save their family, but surely that is not so. Mr. Bush bore false witness to that, he should be ashamed and repent (IF HE REALLY IS A CHRISTIAN). How blind can one be to still believe in him.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
Blessed Are The Peace Makers
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