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I Hate Women - Page 5

User Thread
 25yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that forgottentruth is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
right to the original statment that ALL women are ignorant and stupid ect ect... not ALL women are abusive and ignorant, just the ones you seem to have met, there is going to be women that hurt you, because they are jerks, but not ALL women are jerks like you have stated.

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"All we see or seem; is but a dream within a dream. - Edgar Allan Poe"
 25yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that forgottentruth is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
right to the original statment that ALL women are ignorant and stupid ect ect... not ALL women are abusive and ignorant, just the ones you seem to have met, there is going to be women that hurt you, because they are jerks, but not ALL women are jerks like you have stated.

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"All we see or seem; is but a dream within a dream. - Edgar Allan Poe"
 25yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that forgottentruth is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
right to the original statment that ALL women are ignorant and stupid ect ect... not ALL women are abusive and ignorant, just the ones you seem to have met, there is going to be women that hurt you, because they are jerks, but not ALL women are jerks like you have stated.

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"All we see or seem; is but a dream within a dream. - Edgar Allan Poe"
 32yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
The only constant in life... is change.


So you're saying there's no such thing as absolute truth?

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Whew, finally, at least my third read through this.

D.

Again, your attempt to make an arguement that choosing happiness is differrent than choosing pain, is incorrect, for me at least, perhaps some people's attempt at a quick fix, sure, quite accurate.

Myself however, to ellucidate my perspective, which was so commonly dissmissed due to ignorant judgement of me and my path, for none of you know me well enough to know my travels, so allow me to enlighten.

I hadn't even hit junior high when I thanked a god I didn't even believe in for my pain, my abuse, sexual, physical, psycological, continual... for helping me to become who I am.

But, then I became addicted to abusing these facts and people's reactions to them, seeking pitty and sympathy, rather than growth and personal responsibility, indeed, avoiding even happiness.

And then finally, so far, I learned to accept that I was doing this, that I was denying happiness, and I CHOSE happiness.

D. What you also seem to miss, is that I get that you have to work through pain, like a knotted muscle, a barb wire fence as a jew, whatever. I've always said it takes work, swallowing pride, pain, etc.

But you do have to choose happiness, if you simply choose pain, than you never stop the pain, you create more, you have to work through the pain, out of necessity, and choice, but ultimately to put past pain behind you, to clear the path for happiness.

We may not be able to define happiness, but we know what it is, just not so much how to keep it, except maybe cycling through it and pain to even be able to acknowledge it.

But we can distinguish between pleasure and happiness.

Semantics and or your desire for eternal pain, perhaps correctly if needed for perspective and the ability to have something to compare and understand and experience happiness, is the only arguement I think has occurred. If you want or choose to disagree, I would hope you can articulate and prove otherwise, so be it, I'll let you know if I ever agree too.

Because otherwise, I see no disagreement, just potentially someone still addicted to pain. Something that took me 20+ years to overcome, not overnight by choice. But even then, I secretly chose happiness, but I SUPPRESSED it!

Looks like mr hater hasn't felt like responding, go figure, guess he's too busy continuing his cycle. Maybe he felt he was getting too much support and not enough abuse.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Hmmm, so far, I'm still getting the impression, but not the clear picture so as to be capable of exact expression. that like you say there is simply some mixing of concepts here causing our lack of 100% clarity, but not just by me mind you.

But this is just my impression, and I'm here to get it sorted, because what I do know is, this is a missunderstanding and ultimately irrelevant, the only real relevant part being a rift between us that is ultimately based on nothing.

A reason mr hater is still relevant is that it is my interpretation of him that has been judged, and likely missunderstood. And frankly, if he wasn't such a bitch, most likely, he'd be hear helping us come to an understanding, something he didn't even do then.

Again, an initial defense of yours of him was your decision to claim he was not already full fledged in a cycle of abusive relationships, regardless of his causing or seeking, or apparently the potential for random happenstance.

You said he was here to vent and not seek sympathy, one thing I noticed I didn't clarify was why I did and do think he was by stating that calling girls names, obviously venting, claiming abuse, seeking sympathy, righfully so to a degree. Because I do agree his was in real pain and sufferring, that was never an issue to me, but he was adding to it and not facing it.

And it was made evident that he only wanted sympathy because he never once took responsibility for his part in his relationships, never. He just wanted agreement, not solution.

From that, a point to his cycle, if he really was running into that many super bitches, and he really was just mister innocent, then he either needed to move, or more likely that he was just in need of admitting that he was doing something wrong, not just seeking love.

The old addage, if you find yourself thinking that everyone is wrong but you, than it is you who are wrong, applies.

Another point of contention that I don't agree should have ever occurred, to the degree it did, is the love owner thing.

I never said or intended a notion that a loving devotion can't exist for him, my whole point in bringing the concept of ownership up was that you can't force love, and one of the likely things he was doing wrong was the expectations he was putting on women.

Because dissapointment can only exist if you create an expectation that fails to be met.

He was probably just running in circles expecting women to love him a certain way, like without trying to help him overcome his insecurities because they were too painful and he refused to work through them.

He did acknowledge insecurities once, which is good, but he couldn't grasp the concept that untill he did something about it, exposing them is going to feel like abuse.

I could call him a fat loser or the greatest guy ever and eventually he would still feel pain and blame me for it.

I'm just trying to tic off some things I noted as causes of unnecessary consternation.

Nope, no chalice, and nope, didn't think you were promoting unecessary pain.

And I don't think I ever attacked mr hater, i did express frustration with his denial of his part in his cycle of his pain.

Of course women can do things that hurt, but the only reason it hurts is because it is our own insecurity being exposed, fear of rejection, fear of inadequacy, whatever. And untill he takes responsibility for his insecurities and does his work to rectify them, his cycle will continue.

The other addage of pointing the finger at someone still leaves three pointing back at you applies.

I never said his pain was fictional, I meant his pain was his own, and not some womans fault.

Again, a woman can be the most evil bitch in the world, but if he is healthy, confident, and in control of his insecurities, she can't touch him negatively, or at least not to any degree of significance. However, if he is in constant fear and pain from insecurities that control him, she can even be the sweetest girl on earth, and he will feel pain and blame her for it.

My pain was not fictional either, it was instead real pain that instead of healing I was exascerbating, continuing when it didn't need to, because yes, I was deriving benefit from it, but that benefit was undercut by this growing pain.

A pain that I would need even more salve for creating my cycle.

Pain is inevitable, sufferring is not, that is the choice, between happiness and sufferring, not pleasure and pain.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
1. I think he clearly stated in his first post that he was in a cycle, he said it has been happenning all his life, I don't see how or why you are missunderstanding this.

2. From his initial post and even more so from his follow ups, he most certainly never even allowed for discussion of his part in his issue. And since there were multiple attempts to address that point, giving him the opportunity to explain how he may have at some point, I find it far more incorrect to assume that he had, or had to any degree of significance.

If someone is complaining about a cycle of bad relationships and still is blaming only the women, especially after being confronted about his behavior and lack of personal responsibility, after being allowed to vent, he then blames others for attacking him instead of seeing that they understand and want to help and know that the only way to do it is by healing himself first, where is there confusion on his current dillema?

Again, his pain is real, his insecurities were not created by him, but it is his responsibility to overcome them by facing the pain and fear, no one can do it for him.

3. Bitchy is human, not female, fear and insecurity are universal.

Women bond just as much as men, you will find that most male relationships are casual and not substantial, both men and women tend to have only one to a handful of real, truly close, friends at any given time,

Catty towards eachother, please, put a girl between to guy friends and see what happens. They share the same fears of inadequacy.

I think a point that would be helpful for you D is noting that yes, women are taught to loathe themselves, for their imperfections and the Masculinity.

What you seem not to be as familiar with is how men are taught to hate themselves for being imperfect and emotional, feminine.

These are equally detrimental but manifest slightly differently, men become more of a rough exteriored asshole than they truly are, hiding their soft pink parts, while women become blubbering emotional drama queens hiding their rough exteriors.

3.2 Plenty of germans knew what was happenning was wrong, as i do with america and her wars.

It was only those blind to being wrong that never understood, because they thought everyone else was wrong, and should be exterminated.

Nothing stupid about it.

You just think mr hater wasn't wrong about anything apparently. I disagree, and would be glad to clarify further. And will start by repeating myself in saying that no, he is not completely wrong, just about avoiding his part, his personal responsibility in his bad relationships.

If you are trying to tell me that he likely had no part in making his relationships fail, I'm going to laugh in your face.

4. Again, dissappointment can only come from your own expectations. Normal as any expectation may seem to you, it is an expectation.

Loyalty in relationships is a wicked sticky concept. First, true loyalty must be earned, temporary loyalty can be offerred, but neither can be expected without the potential of that expectation not being met.

You can expect it all day long, doesn't mean your going to get it, assuming otherwise is king of stupid, you can hope, but you can't know.

And after having his expectations not met once, unless he is retarded or insane, expecting different results from the same action, you would think he would learn to be wary.

Because as we both agree, women, and men, are insecure bitches that are prone to chaotic actions that don't follow normal expectations.

Any expectation other than for someone to be themself is unrealistic.

As for the thing about being hurt by a bitch, yes, I meant like if you know yourself and are over fearing being fat or something, and she tries to hurt you by calling you fat, it wont hurt the same as if you were still controlled by the insecurity.

If you are in a relationship and she cheats, its gonna hurt, this is the difference between pain and sufferring, its unfortunate and it sucks, but you don't have to suffer over it.

People commonly suffer over that situation because they confuse someone's ability to be attracted to other people with their not being attractive enough.

People change, people get bored, people suddenly start being themselve, etc. Given that the only constant in life is change, expecting people to stay the same, including loyal, is unrealistic.

You can hope for it, it can happen, but it is an unrealistic expectation. One that tends to get in the way of enjoying all your relationships, brief or long.

So again, his post results, to me, from expecting them to not be crazy bitches which is clearly unrealistic, but his sufferring is from his denial that he is equally a crazy bitch.

And now I have to run to work.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
For a quick finish here where I left off.

I caught your post before removal on my way out the door.

FYI, I was responding as I read, number by number, not reading ahead, not something I normally do, just trying to specifically answer point by point.

Because I can't cut and paste right now my mode for response is off.

And I do see your acknowledgement about bias, now, but reiteration and my own accounting still feels valid and potentially useful.

You have asked me to provide facts in an unscientific arguement of opinion in which you provide no statistical facts of your own, this is unreasonable.

Society and man and woman's place in them have fluctuated over the eons, matriarchal, patriarchal, and through these transistions as well as advancements in technology and quality of life there have been major adjustments and compensations.

Although you concede you are likely expressing bias, and I will officially offer agreement and even add that it is that that has clouded you more than I on this issue and this fabled dissagreement.

Because it is always based on your desire to place more blame on women, period.

When society openly or subconsciously oppresses women they find ways to compensate, sexual strength, psycological manipulation and domination, food poisoning, what have you.

Western women today are what you are focusing on and they are in obvious transition from house wife to equal bread winning, even when undercut paywise, still starting to lead in ceo posistions and success. I get a hint of impression that you manage to add eastern oppression into your thought pattern as well, helping confuse the issue.

Men are being equally as fucked up in my OPINION, my barely educated guess, because of all sorts of reasons from the above mentioned to how the dychotomy plays out when women need men less while still having the upper hand in sexual options and even professional options through sex, etc.

I mean, how many men can decide to become prostitutes or strippers for college funds or shits and giggles comparitively? And how does that affect male female aggressiveness in relationships etc. It all factors in somewhere and I sincerely doubt you have all factors factored because they are literally infinite and fluctuating.

Aggressiveness in relationships and courting can be measured in many different ways, and I think you leave out male and femal passive aggressiveness and other compensations of the existing and agreed upon femal aggression.

So except saying that relationships can hurt, which I've always agreed with, your assumptive notion that women are more to blame is all I'm dissagreeing with, as a guessed potentiality, which you have conceded is a possible bias, and I have clarified as being at the very least, innaccurate and unscientific and incomplete.

If you are saying it is impossible that mr hater is part of the problem in his relationships, I will gladly dissagree there too.

So I now through further revelation have realised my own shortcoming in this arguement, I have failed you. I have allowed my own fear of affecting our friendship hinder me from pointing out things I was afraid would affect your ego and temper.

Through my last read especially I noted such things as you saying I am not reading and or comprehending your posts, all while you have a post explicitly stating that you did not read my posts and therefore were obviously incapable of comprehending my own.

I have kept too silent on your obvious bias, from the get go I even joked about you being a woman hater, it was obvious it struck a cord in you and has indeed even strained our relationship as I expressed fear that it would, but I didn't back down, but I failed us both in not clarifying and attacking the issue, for that I am sorry but appreciate my growth from it as I am feeling a burden lift.

You have accused me of distortion tactics of which only you are aware, when, unless you can show me where I'm so afraid to admit some wrong, or feel the need to manipulate the debate, on a subject of guess based opinion that I hold little ultimate value in to begin with, I am left to guess that I shouldn't be surprised if that finger gets pointed at you as well.

You have actually clarified issues in many of my posts where I was accurate in my generalised conceptual meaning but my words allowed for other interpretations and arguements in minutia, and I have agreed with what I think was all of them, minus the two exceptions above.

I have never dissagreed that abuses, as well as possitive influences, affect all individuals and their relationships, and that certain common patterns exist creating certain notable patterns of strong aggressiveness, but that also compensatory and balancing passive agressiveness and other factors balance them, at the very least potentially, but how the fuck would I know for certain.

And that brings me to my greatest revelation, and I'll speak it openly for all to see, how rediculous of a notion it is now to me that our friendship could be strained by an opinion based arguement about some guy venting about his shitty relationships.

I will end this by stating that regardless of your frustration, if you have any need or desire, I am completely open to having pointed out whatever it is you feel I'm not comprehending, and even agree that I'm not if that's the case.

But if you want to assume I'm incapable and not bother, and or deny any possibility that the issue may not even lie with me and perhaps explore that, then there is nothing I can do about that.

The impass is yours, I don't have anything left blocking us.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 52yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that magicoarezzo is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
this is my first post in this forum and this is my point of view (sorry if my English is not perfect it's not my mother tongue)

most women cannot love, especially when they're still quite young and attractive

in a man they search protection, security, social status, money, power, they are very practical

they pretend to love and they hurt men so easily because really they cannot feel what love is (that's why they talk about it so often and stupidly)

it took me more than 40 years to see this so clearly, but when I saw it I eventually lost all interest in women

my body is still attracted, but that's not so important anymore

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"If you seek for enlightenment diligently enough, someone will sell it to you"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Great point Magic, which reminds me, even for myself, how I didn't, and wonder if I even do yet, but the same goes for all boys too.

Again, another valid and often missed part of the problem, actually knowing what love is in terms of a relationship, huge issue.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Jacker_Jones is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
It's all about ladder theory. Good looking guys are going to break a lot of hearts as is good looking girls simply because people want to be with them.

I mean girls are just attracted to power, money, looks! Guys are attracted to looks. So who uses who more? I would say that only the top percentile of men get to use women where as women on average get to use men more because in the relationship they control sex and they know that men will do just about anything for it.

But I would say that about 10% of people don't follow ladder theory. In which case some kind of emotion determins why people choose their mates. Perhaps only that 10% are emotionaly sane??? People are generally emotionally retarded!

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"I love to see people struggling for their purpose in life..."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
There are so many levels, strastopheres and dychotomies at play that makes such percentages less off kilter.

A key point being that since current circumstances provide men with power and money through means other than women, a changing reality, but none the less still fairly viable, that men with money and power can be butt ugly and still get all kinds of chicks, and use them just as much.

That is why the insecurity of potential versus settling and missing out put relationships on far more equal grounds than is commonly understood.

We all strive for the best we can get, worry that we settle and or are passing up something once we have or along the way.

Which is why ego stroking and materilistic pursuits, equally an issue for both sexes, though through varied means due to societal circumstances, backfires because it fuels insecurities.

And it is why internal and external honesty are likely the ultimate answer to instability. Ego stroking, from one's self or others becomes irrelevent, easily seen through as a ploy, and even sad once personal honesty is achieved.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 35yrs • M •
mark1234 is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
as a reply to the first post, it is fair enough that you hate women after all your experiences..but that maybe because you associated the wrong type of women for YOU..im telling you this because i have had a friend who went through the same thing..and not all women are bad..there are really nice ones too..if you dont rush and take time to get to know them and then get close to them, i think you will not get hurt like this..and everyone had faults..the thing is that one should be able to overlook the bad and appreciate the good things..

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 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I love this thread.

The source of it all.

It is still blows my mind to think about how much nonsense occured within and from it.

So much bias, hypocricy, denial, arrogance, assumptions as well as clear vision and accurate predictions.

There was so much unification by those who don't blame others for their continued frame of mind, even while perfectly aggreeing and understanding that their fears were taught by others, yet so much dismissal and unification of those who couldn't see the whole picture and saw dissagreement where there generally wasn't any.

There is always compensation for changes in balance. Why some can't see how bias clouds them from seeing balance is simply a sign to me that some aren't truly ready to face their worst demons.

Particularly those demons of strong egos that turn good people into beasts.

And I don't mean beast who speak strongly or forgoe kid gloves or even professional tact or maturity in behavior.

But beasts who choose to oppress and ignore, hurting themselves the most but others as well. For the acts of oppression and ignoring are the epitomies of a closed mind. Only losers and quitters walk away from an udefeated opponent, that is why they are generally the ones suffering from repressed inner demons, because they ignore them and when they can't, try to control them through aggressive repression rather than actually doing the work to fix them.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 24yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheHollowMen275 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Even if you do get rejected, you should be happy, it's all part of a learning curve. You sound less like someone who has lost faith in love than someone who does not believe in it. That's not a criticism, I feel the same way. I've been rejected more times than i can count but i don't mind anymore, because at least I've gained experience from it, I've matured from it you know? Eventually, you'll find someone as realistic and sympathetic as yourself. I guarantee it. As for you, awakenedwraith, if you truly think that you can make yourself feel tall by saying that this man's misfortune is "self-induced", then i think you misunderstand the purposes of a thread such as this. Just cause you can express your own views, doesn't mean you need to be an arse-hole.

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"All the world's a stage. And all the men and women are merely players."
I Hate Women - Page 5
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