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What makes people so angry about the Christian faith?

User Thread
 44yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that PeteSmith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
What makes people so angry about the Christian faith?
What makes people so hostile to the Christian faith. Talk about Muhammed or Budha and people are open but talk about Jesus and people loose control of themselves and fill up with anger. Why is that do you think?

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""What we do in life echoes in eternity" Maximus"
 31yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that awakendwraith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
You tell 'em!

Unlike Decius, I do not consider myself, nor have I ever, a christian. I'm just not. I have no religion. But I have plenty of reasons to be mad at christians.

For instance, most christian I have met have pre-judged me and treated me unfairly because of it. I'm mad at the christian faith for allowing this type of thing to go on and on and telling people its ok, that they will be forgivin for their sins "so don't worry about it." Which is what it boils down to.

I used to get screemed at and called many things and got in a few fights in middle school and my freshmen year, by christians, for stating that I did not believe in god. And its not like i went around telling random people for fun, they'd ask me something, and the answer would involve an explantion of my atheism. Do the math their too.

Some one I hold very dear to me is forced to attend this cult, which is what I will refer to it as from now on, because the christian society she lives in would render her homeless if she protested against it. Sure, its not that big of a deal, but tis damage non the less.
This same person lives with a hardcore "christian" and is abused on soooooooooooo many different levels. This woman justifies her extreme abuse with the will of god and her faith. The christian faith.

I know this sounds prejudice, but I am ofcourse optomistic when it comes to individuals. I never judge a christian for being a christian. Not untill I get to know them a little more.

And, with all the parts about being a good person, the christian faith stands for everything I stand against. The whole lieing to yourself bit. Telling yourself that nothing matters because in the end it will all be ok. Allowing god to strengthen you. Now, I don't believe in god, so that means I don't think this is possible, so I think that they are all lying to themselves. They simply ignore their problems and pretend they don't exist. I also resent them for this.

And the fact that almost every christian I have met has acted as if I was lower than them because I didn't join in on all the stone throwing fun.

Have you ever seen a movie called Saved?

In this movie a christian girls boyfreind impregnates her. She has sex with him because she thinks that jesus tells her to, and that she can restore her spiritual virginity if she asks god. The gay kids parents find out he is gay and they send him away to a camp. They find out the girl is pregnant, and the mother imidiatly dismisses all responsiblity for it and attempts to send her away.

With all the christian love you people possess, you can't seem to love each other. That pisses me off to, because it is only more evidence of your lying to yourselves.

That type of shit actually happens.

My brother's wife's mom is christian. My brother and his wife started having unprotected sex at the age of 16 and 14 and my dad asked her mom to put her on the pill. She said no, because it was like condoning it and she wasn't going to condone sex before marrige, it just wasnt the christian thing to do. What this boils down to is she didn't love her daughter enough to do something wrong. Only a christian..

She is also a hypocrit and bigot.

Its just, christians, not all, but the ones we are angry at, are exteme ass holes and pretend they arent. And its becasue of its faith that they are and that they pretend that they aren't.

quote:
Talk about Muhammed or Budha and people are open but talk about Jesus and people loose control of themselves


Because those religions are never seen and are rare in my parts.

And the Budha is the guy that is most at peace. How the fuck can you be mad at a guy like that?
Dumbass.

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"Why cry for those that often cry? Instead, help them smile, and smile for those that smile."
[  Edited by awakendwraith at   ]
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Although not directly associated with your question Petesmith, my following words are important to consider as not only focussing on Christians, but the morass of irrational doctrines. Belief in a god (especially the Christian deity) is unreasonable. Christianity claims its core foundations are based on faith. Faith? yes faith. Such an unusual word. Perhaps a socially constructed term? Yes indeed. Not rational nor logical. An empty abstraction. Most philosophers and theologians now accept that belief in a god must rest on faith, not on reason. Yet there are those select people who still believe that their faith can be rested on logic, yet still fail to deliver on logical reasoning. By believing on faith abandons the judgment of one's mind. Faith conflicts with reason. Faith doesn't give you knowledge; it only deludes you into believing that you know more than you really do. Faith is intellectually dishonest. This leads us to the question of logic and its lack of it within dogmatic practices such as the christian faith, but I won't address this as it is quite a different topic. But I will mention that to say god doesn't obey logical rules, to say that God could create a round square, for example, is to say that the abilities of god are abilities that cannot logically exist.


So I will mention just a few things that seem rather despondant within the Christianity realm. Some would say that the existence of God is meaningless because it has no verifiable or testable consequences and should therefore be ignored.

Atheist religions by far have the kinder record as far as wars and atrocities are concerned (as clearly mentioned by Decius above). History shows this very precisely. And just to remind those who do not know already (as well to prevent any confusion further in this discussion)- Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism are examples of atheist belief. The mono-theistic beliefs especially Christianity are especially prone to acts of genocide and war in their endless attempts to wipe out opposing deities. The theologist's mind suffers from the illusion of a "higher morality," and because of that illusion all history runs deep with innocent blood (especially with Christians partaking). 'God' contradicts Free Will of all living beings including itself.

Beliefs in a 'God' usually initiate from fear. To one degree or another the theologic religious minds must accept, and believe in, another world; a supernatural or unnatural world, a world filled with imaginary beings called gods, devils, angels, saints, demons, etc. To an Atheist that just sounds foolishly insane! To claim that a person needs to believe in the irrational and supernatural is a prescription for disaster. And for the whole 'after life' thing and being judged, is so feeble it makes me and many angry. Christians (as well as other religions) spend their whole life trying to figure out the truth of an afterlife and the only way they'll find out what it is, is to get hit by a bus. And the only comfort that religion offers is that God is driving that bus!

Christians say that if you don't believe in THEIR GOD then you go to hell. Well I've already established that these terms 'hell' and 'heaven' are merely social constructions. But lets assume for the moment that they exist in a hypothetical scenario. So even if a real heaven did exist, and for some reason a god chose who went and who didn't, if that god is a good and noble being he will judge me for my value as a human being, and not for my belief in him. Naivity at its ultimate. Perhaps a result of manipulated brainwashing? yes indeed.


Ok so the bible is a book, merely a collection of fictional characters and stories of prose. A propaganda tool if you will. Again, lets assume a christian god exists (hypothetically). Well then 'God' himself is more than welcome to share an honest conversation with me. Until he does, I have no reason to trust that anyone is a reliable spokesman from the bible for any god. God is no more than an empty abstracted thought provoked by the superstitious mind.

On an end note, the christian religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches you 24/7. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does not want you to do. But if you do any of these 10 things he has a special place full of torture and burning fire and smoke and hate where he will command you to live and cry and burn and suffer for eternity...but he loves you.

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that KGB is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Not directly associated with this post (mainly because I've grown a little tired of defending myself against accusors of my religion) but i thought i'd go ahead and point this out to summit's post: saint is a title given by religious leaders, meaning saints are real people merely with a title rather than imaginary beings.

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"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
 44yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that PeteSmith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
This is exactly what I mean! Why can one not have a rational discussion about Christianity without anger and hatred emerging!

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""What we do in life echoes in eternity" Maximus"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
saint is a title given by religious leaders, meaning saints are real people merely with a title rather than imaginary beings.

KGB: Its the principal of a saint that is imaginary. A 'saint' is a person who has died and gone to an apparent 'heaven'.


quote:
Why can one not have a rational discussion about Christianity without anger and hatred emerging!

Petesmith: Ask yourself the same question towards your faith. Those first three posts are quite comprehensive, which took valuable time and effort. If all you've got is vague, illogical, closed-minded, paltry rebuttal then your simply wasting your time. So if you are prepared to learn constructively and have an open-minded rational discussion then your most welcome to go ahead. Remember this is a forum for discussing through this manner.

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Cynic-Al is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
congratulations summit on failing in your previous post to actually read what christianity says before bringing such a heavy damnation of it.

guy in the sky watching you 24/7 who has prepared a list of 10 things not to do (or in some cases to do) and will send you to hell for eternity if you do them. then the big bit you missed "if you dont repent". if you say you were in the wrong then you dont go to hell. thats more of a chance than humanity gives you. anyway the about 7 of the commandments are in our social structure anyway. respect your parents, would you want your own kids to think you were a jerk and an asshole for no reason? doubt it.

as for the not putting her on the pill, whats wrong with that? if you dont believe in something, you dont suddenly turn around and go, well since your doing it anyway i dont mind.

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"So Schrodinger's Cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by elbows and peanut butter?"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Thanks for your predisposal. For the clarification it was a
metaphor, and not to be taken literally!

So we've raised another issue- the 10 commandments. Ok so lets discuss. And before a christian claims here that they have "better" morals, despite acting under a reward and punishment system, is deeply questionable and almost laughable. We are judged by our moral choices, not by our religion.

1. You shall have no other God
It is immoral to force any god on people. Would you like it if a foreign god was forced on you?

2. Have no worshipped idols or imagery
It is required in some religions. Commanding them not to worship is simply inconsiderate, immoral, and provokes antisocial behaviour.

3. Do not take the Lords name in vain
The exclamation "Jesus Christ" is said many times by atheists. It is a well common English phrase in place of "Shit!". Which do you prefer?
Can we command people not to say "Bless you" after sneezing because it offends others? Of course not. Likewise with saying "Oh god!".

4. No person or animal shall work on the Sabbath, the Holy day.
The Sabbath is Saturday or Sunday. What type of moral issue is this? It is a ridiculous statement! If there is a fire on the Holy day, who would put it out? No living christian stops moving and eating on their holy day. Theoretically that is work.

5. Honour thy parents
Again this is not a commandment. This is ill-founded advice. Give honour to your parents, keep their name in good order. Unless of course, they are bad people, in which case upholding this becomes wrong. It is in a young persons interest to know that if they are abused by their parents they tell others - this commandment should not be told to children or naive adults.

6. Do not kill
What about self defence? - what if they are going to kill you and rape your wife? Then it is more moral to kill the attacker than let him continue.
If a person wishes to die due to unrecoverable pain and misery, forcing them to live is immoral. Killing a terrorist who is obtaining hostages may be necessary. Could say much more about how this commandment is abused, ie christian torture and wars.

7. Do not commit adultery
Again this is not a commandment. This is ill-founded advice. Some religions have forced marriages. And members of these religions sometimes temporarily swap wives. In fact, consented wife-swapping is a growing phenomenon. It is immoral for what reason? As an Athiest, I would say that it weakens trust and respect for your loved one and yourself. But for a christian if there is no moral reason then why is this classified as a commandment?

8. Do not steal
A beggar on the streets is dying from malnutrition. If he steals a loaf of bread one day he lives for a day. When he steals a loaf of bread, no-one else dies as a result. Therefore in this situation it is more moral for him to have a loaf of bread by stealing than not to.

9. Do not lie
Lying is necessary. The easter bunny and Santa Claus are lies. When asked "Are you gay" by a violent homophobe with a gun, it is more moral to lie and live than to die. Lies can save lives, lies can cause pain, such a blanket statement as "Do not lie" is unreasonable.

10. Do not covet they neighbours wife, slaves or belongings.
This is immoral, and disdains human behaviour. Envy is not a thought crime. Its a natural emotion. We only learn to be considerate to others by knowing what it feels like to be left out, to have less: To feel envy. Should the suffering be happy and content, or should they alleviate their state?

Commandments 6, 8 and 9 have positives going for them. Yet other religions with very similar rules word it much better.

If one obeys commandments, traditional rules and dogmatic answers to moral questions do not make a person moral, it makes them amoral. The more one relies on a book of dogmatic pre-laid rules the less they are acting as a moral person. Morality is about choices.

See I would rather act for the sake of goodness itself, instead of doing good acts under the belief that failure to do so results in hell.






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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 31yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that awakendwraith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"See I would rather act for the sake of goodness itself, instead of doing good acts under the belief that failure to do so results in hell."

Which is another thing that kinda pisses me off about christians. Why not just be good because it is the right hing to do? Why do you need that fear of god?

"as for the not putting her on the pill, whats wrong with that? if you dont believe in something, you dont suddenly turn around and go, well since your doing it anyway i dont mind."

This is not at all what is happening. The mother doesn't believe in putting the daughter on the pill. But if she does not put her daughter on the pill, she WILL get pregnant and her life WILL be altered in a way that is not seen too "good." And the ONLY reason why this woman does not put her daughter on the pill is because the woman has too much pride and is too thick headed to set herself aside, to set her beliefs aside, for the good of her daughter. This is how the "christians" of today act. And again, the christian faith ahs spawned these horrible people.

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"Why cry for those that often cry? Instead, help them smile, and smile for those that smile."
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Cynic-Al is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
summit, no-one except some really creepy people from the deep south try and force those on anyone, they are instructions to believers of that religion. which gets rid of the first 4. but the rest of them are relevant advice in general situations. though most have exceptions such as the ones you mentioned.

why is "do not commit adultery" ill-founded advice? it can ruin marriages, and in a lot of cases it suggests that there is something lacking in the marriage, also one again it is not meant for a religion with forced marriages, it is meant for christians. there is obviously something lacking in your relationship if you feel the need for wife swapping.

as for what you said about the various laws given other that the 10 commandments (ie book of leviticus), they are social rules that almost all modern christians would tell you are not the word of god. i challenge you to find any christian who follows the rule about not shaving the hair on the side of their face.

as for dogmatism replacing morals bullshit. do laws govern morals as well then? they say similar things dont they, yet no-one complains that they are dogmatic, despite being enforced by the police, do you need the fear of arrest to follow the laws? people have morals based around the rules of the society they live in, with varying amounts of certain nicetys around the edge, it is generally considered strange or wrong to commit adultery, by most people christian or not. lieing is also looked down on in most situations, religion is just somewhere they are written down in broad terms.

anyway all religions have such laws, are they not also dogmatic. in comparison to muslims, people hate christians because they are less dogmatic, and let people criticise them, you go to a muslim country, and no-one hates muslims, because they have all been indoctrinated into the faith.
you just happen to live in a part of the world where christianity is the main faith, but where a lack of dogmatism means that atheism has begun to become predominant in society. which is good, dogmatism should not rule.

as for the whole pill debate, if the girl doesnt want to get pregnant she doesnt have to have sex. its that simple. if the mother doesnt believe in her daughter having sex before marriage then that is how she would see it, its not a neccesity that her daughter gets laid. if she were blocking her from doing something that would be beneficial to her health or save her life, then compromising your morals is okay. but religion has nothing to with this debate anyway, some people wouldnt want their children having sex before marriage even if they were atheist because its against the morals that they have decided on. some christians do allow sex before marriage so there is a choice on the matter.

someone having different morals than you does not make them a horrible person.


and going way back to decius comments about christians hated for previous crimes. that should also bear for people in the deep south because of what they did to black people. are we to hold a permanent grudge against them for that? if not please explain to me exactly where the difference lies, cause as far as i can see there is no remorse on their part, they just stopped doing it, though some still dont like coloured people.

in general what people hate about christians is the fact that they are there. this is a largely atheist area, so when people decide that they are atheist and hate religion the one they know about (through its being taught at school in large amounts of the western world) so its the one they know how to attack, they cant attack what they dont know without appearing even more ridiculous than your petty nitpicking at things you have misread or have different opinions on.

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"So Schrodinger's Cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by elbows and peanut butter?"
 31yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that awakendwraith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
You aren't listening at all, you are being completely defensive and instead of engaing in a real conversation, you are fighting.

Please re-read my post. Your first sentence is under the assumption of a premise I never stated.

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"Why cry for those that often cry? Instead, help them smile, and smile for those that smile."
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Cynic-Al is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
how so, if she does not have sex she will also not get pregnant. i cannot see any premise i have imagined.

as for doing the right thing by choice instead of through fear, like i said christianity doesnt stop you doing so, it simply gives gidelines that they believe you should follow.

this was never a conversation to start with, it was me getting irritated and the prejudiced attacks made on a subject that various members of this site had made on a subject that hadnt bothered to check they understood first.

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"So Schrodinger's Cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by elbows and peanut butter?"
 31yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that awakendwraith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
She wanted to get pregnant... That one. I never said she didn't want to get pregnant, but it was clear to all outside the two of them that if she did, it would be detrimental to the both of them. Sure, they now have a child they love more than anying else int he whole world, and taht is wonderful on all levels, but it could have waited.

Thats where you are assuming.

My anger is justified and "correct" because the faith that teaches sacrifice and love spawns more hatred and selfishness then any other I have seen. I don't appriciate hypocracy and I dislike vilinous things.

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"Why cry for those that often cry? Instead, help them smile, and smile for those that smile."
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Cynic-Al is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
the presumption that she wouldnt want to get pregnant is a natural one considering that you said she was onyl 14 when they started. and if she did want to get pregnant, then she would not have gone on the pill even if offered it. i myself believe that if you are going to have sex then protection is recommended unless you are trying for kids. but in this case she was, and therefore your anger at her mother is totally misplaced.

christianity spawns some idiots. but every religion spawns its zealots, and a large majority are not as heavy handed or dogmatic as the zealots. but it is not evil by design, it is evil through peoples misreadings of it. (except bits of leviticus etc but that was a set of rules for jews of that period not for modern day christians, so we dont stone gays or sell our daughters into slavery as it says we may or should)

i personally dont like organised religion much, there is so much wrong with the whole thing, but i find many of the arguements put forward very closed minded and ignorant. yours i understand the reasoning of, but various others have gone out with the intention of getting the wrong end of the stick and beating christianity about the head with it.

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"So Schrodinger's Cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by elbows and peanut butter?"
 31yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that awakendwraith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"but in this case she was, and therefore your anger at her mother is totally misplaced."

I disagree. See, her mother didn't even try to persuade her. At all.

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"Why cry for those that often cry? Instead, help them smile, and smile for those that smile."
What makes people so angry about the Christian faith?
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