Articles | Forums | Polls | Quotes | Who's Online | Store
Signup | Lost Password
"I live my life a quarter mile at a time. For those 20 minutes or so Im free" - 68 firebird
Latest:CrypticTruth

Handbook For A New Paradigm
Main -> General -> General Discussion  | NewPosts

What About Eugenics?

USER THREAD
16 Posts / 34M
     :   20yrs   :  
Kuja

What About Eugenics? [+ favourites]

What do you think of eugenics? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it evil? Does it consist of wrong ideologies? Racial ideas? Comon, what do you think about it?


4026 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

Its racism.

And its slightly retarded due to the fact that it attempts to utterly stagnate the gene pool. Not to mention that as much as a race would like to proclaim purity, such a thing is highly unlikely. Especially since these are generally elite family blood lines who have owned slaves and traveled the world both spreading their seed and incorporating that of other races.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

16 Posts / 34M
     :   20yrs   :  
Kuja

I agree with you, but you can't deny that the procedures can be done correctly with now flaws. Especially with gene therapy techniques that will make it much easier, right?


4026 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

What can be done, a superior white race? That is the goal of eugenics. And sure, I'm guessing it could be done.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

16 Posts / 34M
     :   20yrs   :  
Kuja

Yes, it can be done. But nowadays, this is not the real purpose. The real purpose is to make the human race suffer fewer diseases, regulate genetic abnormalities, retarded people and mutations. And in my opinion that is not a bad thing.


22 Posts / 33M
     :   21yrs   :  
Vain

one question
do u find urself superior to any person. if u find it reasonable or even of mere logic to create a new breed of race try creating one.(if u can)
if u can't just just drop the attitude and be more interested in the true core of a human structure.the body is just an executional instrument that man uses to move, reproduce and have a living activity. but the true core of a human is the soul the driving force which controls the entire human body.
so wen u talk about eugenics and the thought of erasing different races just try changing the soul first and then alter the body.
many conditions and circumstances determine the bodily structure.


""Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value""

4026 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

quote:
But nowadays, this is not the real purpose.



Maybe not for you and or a certain group of ideologist doctors. But that is the purpose of eugenics, race cannot be excluded. That would be another science all together. And I'd be wary of any group touting eugenics as non racial as they are either ignorant, or lying to promote their not so publicized agenda.

quote:
The real purpose is to make the human race suffer fewer diseases, regulate genetic abnormalities, retarded people and mutations. And in my opinion that is not a bad thing.


Trying to end disease and dibilitating abnormalities is a good thing. Except for the fact that naturally born disease is a means of natural population control.

Somewhere close to the majority of natural disease causes have been affectively contained.

If you really want to change such things these days, you have more to worry about in terms of overt and covert biological warfare, gene manipulated foods, additives, preservatives, pesticides, McDonalds, and generally bad diets.

Just as bad are intentionally contaminated vaccines. Most containing heavy metal compounds such as Murcury at doses 250 times the safe limit.

And though many will laugh at you, you might want to look into conflicting doctor's analysis of flouride known to cause brittle bone disease and link to cancer, tested by Nazi's as a useful tool to cause people to become docile and servile, and no, I'm not making this up.

And when you get to the bottom of some of these synthetic, manipulated, manufatured and mass used products, you find that people like Donald Rumsfeld, recognize that name? US Secretary of Defense I think, who was or still is one of the people heading a company that manufactured artificial sweeteners.

No biggie right, except for the specific additive asperthame (sp), which has been found to be a very direct link to cancer and whatever else, I can't keep up with all the details, there is just too much unbelievable crap going on.

And besides the fact that actual eugenics is still in practice on a large scale by people in power, Vain had an excellent point that people need to be more aware of.

The best medicine for humans lies in our own bodies and minds. All medicine is tested against placebos, and usually lose. Hopefully you are aware of what a placebo is, as far too many are not, and more importantly hopefully you and others will try to learn the true significance of it and try harnessing that rather than focusing on any other form of medicine first.

A placebo is a trick. Generally a sugar pill disguised as medicine. People heal and feel better when they believe they are taking something that will fix them. Its so powerful that it has even been tested and proven to work in cases of physical surgery.

This is even the concept behind Jesus' and others "faith" healings. Its why faith healings do exist.

And if people would embrace their own body and mind's ability to heal over outside medicine, we would probably be farther along in your goal of ending unnecessary disease. Though it is quite probable that the crap in our food damages our facilities enough to subvert our own healing abilities.

The mutations can probably only be fought by either genetic alteration or actually cleaning up the environment and ending the reign of corporate crooks who dump massive, chemical, biological, and even radioactive waste everywhere, as well as all the food tampering and intake of "medicines" and chemicals mentioned above.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]

16 Posts / 34M
     :   20yrs   :  
Kuja

quote:
so when u talk about eugenics and the thought of erasing different races just try changing the soul first and then alter the body.



As I have "already" mentioned, this is not the purpose, and what is that? Changing the soul first and then alter the body? Do you know even what is a soul to talk about it? Do you know what does it consist of? Does it even exist from the beginning? What you meant is the essence of a person, what is inside and what you feel. And tell you what? All of your feelings, interactions, and replies to whatever stimulus are a result of the sequence of your genes not for anything else as what you think. I don't want to elaborate it, but try to understand that your personality is stored in you brain cells according to the proteins inside, and guess what? Your genes form these proteins! Which makes the alteration of any personality possible in the stage of an early embryo and creating him according to what you want. Another thing, creating a race is not impossible once you have the complete Human Genome available. Once you do it, nothing will be impossible.

quote:
Trying to end disease and debilitating abnormalities is a good thing. Except for the fact that naturally born disease is a means of natural population control.


What??? A "natural population control" let me just give you a very delicate piece of information. This is the year 2006, where the natural population controls are stuff that ended from like a gazillion years ago. Hello, we are not Kuala’s or anything else. This rule applies to "non-humans" e.g. anything else but humans. You know why? Because we have a more developed brain that allows us to survive better that any other creature. A proof? You exist. This page might make a more vivid idea more than what you think:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#Rate_of_population_increa
se


With modern technology there is nothing of what you say (starting from the 1920s) I think. So, if they are going to live, well at least they should live with lesser diseases and lesser suffering, and some benefit to the world. A better proof? The world's population increased from 2 billion in 1927 to 6 billion in 1999. That would mean that the world population increased by 4 BILLION in just 72 years Whoa...

quote:
The best medicine for humans lies in our own bodies and minds.


Yes, you are right and I agree with you. And I know what is a placebo, but can you treat AIDS for an example with placebos?? The only use for a placebo is to raise the spirit of a patient psychologically in order to improve his condition. However, there is not a single medication on the planet that would EVER be able to remove genetic abnormalities, that is simply impossible. A gene therapy is the only thing that will do, and until today gene therapy is not proven to be pretty reliable and many side effects are caused by it.

quote:
And I'd be wary of any group touting eugenics as non racial as they are either ignorant, or lying to promote their not so publicized agenda.



They are lying to promote their not so publicized agenda huh? I have never seen anyone who believes in the conspiracy theory as you in my entire life. Try to get it out of your brain from time to time, life is more positive that what you think, truly. All that carcinogenic stuff that you're talking about are true, I know, but why did you have to mention them here, It's not necessary, really. And in my opinion it is not very important to mention these stuff regarding that topic, it's not very necessary, really.


4026 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

quote:
As I have "already" mentioned, this is not the purpose



Regardless of what you have already mentioned, that is a purpose of it, its just not the only purpose. Your denial of it changes nothing but your understanding of it.

quote:
What??? A "natural population control" let me just give you a very delicate piece of information. This is the year 2006, where the natural population controls are stuff that ended from like a gazillion years ago.



First off, did I not say that most natural diseases have been contained or controlled? Yes I did. The point you missed that I was making was that its not necessarily a good thing that natural population control has been contained.

quote:
Hello, we are not Kuala’s or anything else. This rule applies to "non-humans" e.g. anything else but humans.



What rule?

quote:
You know why? Because we have a more developed brain that allows us to survive better that any other creature. A proof? You exist.



So your rule that does not apply to humans is what, natural population control, yes?

A couple of things, one, there are plenty of creatures who have survived as well with or without brains at all. Including the sources of many of the mentioned forms of natural population control, viruses, disease, etc. Lest you forget that many of these are living organisms.

Proof, germs, viruses, bacteria that become immune to anti-biotics creating "super viruses and bacteria", creatures such as crockodiles surviving dinosaur extinction etc. etc.

This is the year 2006, and people are more afraid of uncrontrollable disease spread than ever, bird flu, mad cow, sars, aids, etc. etc.

Another point is that most of the natural forms of human population control don't even affect other species to begin with.

And the number one source of human population control, after natural death (because it obviously can't keep up) is still alive, well, and currently spreading like wildfire.

And that would of course be human on human violence and malice. Which is a primary point that will later be used in this post as a rebuttal to your desires of blissful ignorance.

Ok, I'm going to official ask you to start naming things you are abstractly referrencing due to the fact that there are multiple points of subject matter being noted.

Again, if you mean population controlling diseases and what not, you are wrong, they obviously still exist, if you mean people who practice eugenics as a means of attempted racial superiority you are also sadly mistaken. If you mean something else all together please attempt some clarification.

quote:
So, if they are going to live, well at least they should live with lesser diseases and lesser suffering, and some benefit to the world. A better proof? The world's population increased from 2 billion in 1927 to 6 billion in 1999. That would mean that the world population increased by 4 BILLION in just 72 years Whoa...


Better proof of what, jesus man. Of the non existance of natural population control, no, this would be the basic non existance of practicing or effective birth control. The diseases, war, violence, and even natural death are still hard at work trying to cull the population. We just breed like freakin rabbits.

And FYI, overpopulation will only cause more disease (natural and man made), war, and violence, as well as reduced quality of life.

Resources which fuel the science and research you are touting is diminishing, and rapidly. And sadly there may already exist scientific breakthroughs to remedy that situation, but a factor you dismiss as so many do may be at fault, but you will continue to deny it, even if found true perhaps.

quote:
However, there is not a single medication on the planet that would EVER be able to remove genetic abnormalities, that is simply impossible. A gene therapy is the only thing that will do, and until today gene therapy is not proven to be pretty reliable and many side effects are caused by it.


This is where it might be a good idea to take some time start thinking about some history, the side of things you are trying to ignore.

Like the case with any medicine or attempted solution to a problem, there is only one sure way to properly "cure" something, and that is not by treating symptoms, but finding the source.

And though some sources will be, seem, OR BEGIN as perfectly natural, I guarantee you many will end up as created, manipulated, and or abused in some fashion by human hands, intentionally or otherwise.

Again heading towards a point on this subject that you seem both offended by and somewhat in denial of.

quote:
However, there is not a single medication on the planet that would EVER be able to remove genetic abnormalities, that is simply impossible


Actually no. By definition gene therapy is a form of medicine. And there could indeed be pills "medication" that contain active ingredients that could actually start the chain reaction of creating, reorganizing, genes, protiens, cells, etc. Regardless of how hard it would be to figure out, imagine, or produce currently.

quote:
They are lying to promote their not so publicized agenda huh?


No, well not necessarily, I mistakenly was focused on one aspect of eugenics, that unfortunately exists even to this day, and wrecklessly and incorrectly over generalized due to lacking information, to this I concede and apologize.

Regardless of innappropriate over generalizations, my points on the subject of eugenics are both valid and important, my original overgeneralization can be corrected by asking you to be wary of those who do not acknowledge this history and to educate those with interest in the field.

quote:
I have never seen anyone who believes in the conspiracy theory as you in my entire life.


No conspiracy theory was mentioned. A part of the documented history of eugenics was mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics


quote:
Try to get it out of your brain from time to time, life is more positive that what you think, truly. All that carcinogenic stuff that you're talking about are true, I know, but why did you have to mention them here, It's not necessary, really.



I see what you are saying, and perhaps I would have approached the thread differently under other circumstances. However I have to dissagree with you about its level of importance. Perhaps it does not need further mention but mention is warranted.

Get out of my brain yes, but sometimes people need to be made aware of the dark side of things, particularly when that dark side is showing itself in current real world events.

If you notice in the link, eugenics was politicized and incorporated into devastating ideologies that make headlines every day.

Not to mention other events that are intentionally kept secret.

If you do not think proven and declassified documentation of US Government programs of forced sterilization in pursuit of a twisted version of eugenics within many of our lifetimes, if its not happening in secrecy still at this moment, is important, then I think you are daft.

Do I think this should keep us from exploring and rejoycing in scientific achievement, hell no, I love watching fantasy become reality.

You simply have to understand, yes, I may need out of my head at times, but specifically Government conspiracy actuality is my current line of research, whereas yours may be the possitive side of eugenics.

And regardless of your possitive message that you know not enough people are familiar and educated with, perhaps even incorrectly reactive and bias, I know that there is important information that people are equally if not more so unaware of that they should be, of a unpleasant and dangerous reality of the intentions of some people who happen to have the power and resources to do very bad things, on a very big scale, and get away with it.

So oops on my part, but thanks for helping me educate as well.

So let me clarify once more in closing, eugenics is not racism. Eugenics is a science or method that includes all viable forms of intervention, manipulation, and control of the development and advancement of the human species and the individual to whatever chosen end.

Racism is a politically ideological aspect, and very powerful racists have used or abused eugenics to further their goals of racial domination.

As a result, evidence as found in the thread Did the government create AIDS?

http://www.captaincynic.com/thread/63097/did_the_government_create_aids
.htm


Aids itself is said to be proven without doubt, as a US Government (not that that means America was alone in such conquest or in this research) tool to reduce, primarily, the black population of America and the world.

And obviously that would mean certain memebers of the US Government. Which is always an important point in the elements of my research of the conspiracy aspect of these things.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

1334 Posts / 44M
     :   22yrs   :  
summit

Lets cut to the chase. Eugenics is the reversal of evolution. Eugenics is pseudoscience. Eugenics is based on a flawed understanding on the process and mechanisms of evolution. Implementing a eugenics program would very likely produce the same results as inbreeding. By selecting certain traits and touting them as “superior” to all others and only allowing individuals possessing these traits to reproduce, you weaken the human race by reducing biodiversity.

More specifically, the reduction of gene flow. You have to understand that evolution occurs through two main processes- mutations and genetic recombination. Eugenics distorts this, and could consequently destroy human evolution. Natural selection is superior to eugenics in that it allows humans to adapt and evolve to changes in the environment. A simple example is; many people would automatically assume that being tall and muscular is an advantage to being short. However, in the event of a food shortage it is more advantageous to be short because you would not need to consume as much food to sustain yourself.


"The summit is just a halfway point"

SITE ADMIN
2866 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

Can someone please describe eugenics in layman terms so that everyone can understand what it is exactly?


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

1334 Posts / 44M
     :   22yrs   :  
summit

Eugenics involves using principles of genetics through selective breeding in the hope to "improve" humankind. However these principles clearly lack understanding of the mechanism of evolution.


"The summit is just a halfway point"

SITE ADMIN
2866 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

So this is not biological engineering... it's "arbitrated selection" as opposed to natural selection.

What is the moral difference between Eugenics and picking and choosing who you fall in love with?

Or arranged marriages where people are married based on family, skin color, health, wealth, physical characteristics? Isn't that a form of selective breeding?

Even choosing who to marry depends on a variety of things which most definitely is "selective breeding".


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

22 Posts / 33M
     :   21yrs   :  
Vain

Racism is a politically ideological aspect, and very powerful racists have used or abused eugenics to further their goals of racial domination.[quote]
eugenics has never interfered in racial domination.whta u r saying here contradicts what u have been saying right from the begining of ur thread.i don't think that the ku klux klan have used eugenics to strengthen their racial dominance.even hitler used eradication camps to overthrow jews but never used eugenics.even in physical life it is far from reality that eugenics could be implemented in any way like cloning it has resulted in total failure. eugenics is just an aspect of virtual reality it could never happen. you can't alter climates.


""Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value""

4026 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

You apparently don't know how eugenics can be applied, its not just genetic manipulation of a laboratory nature.

Its breeding and sterilization, thats how it started. When racists picked up on it, they would breed for tall blonde blue eyed whites, while discouraging procreation, forcing sterilizing or even eradicating all others.

No one said eugenics "interfered" with racism, racists were practicing a politically bastardized form of eugenics as a tool.

And just because you are unaware of what Klan members did, does not mean anything. Its a fact that, among others, the US goverment illegally abducted and sterilized minority women, and I'd be willing to bet some money that some members implementing the program either dabbled in the Klan or shared many of their views. But they may have been more Nazi than Klan. Which are directly related anyway.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

What About Eugenics?
A1F1T0T1T2T3T4T5T6T7T8T9T10T11T12T13T14T15T16