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The Disease of Religious Fundamentalism - Page 2

User Thread
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Spirituality is a part of religion. While there may be some who claim to be religious, if they have not experienced spirituality then they are not. The one cannot be without the other and be authentic.


I understand what you are saying, but unfortunately your agurment is but an opinion not supported by the definition of the word.

And furthermore, the definition of spirituality does not support your opinion either.

A religion is a formal belief system. Spirituality is anything but.

You are correct to say that religion generally attempts to incorporate spirituality, but you are incorrect in proclaiming they cannot exist separately.

You were the one to say

quote:
I think those who argue that spirituality and religion are not the same, believe religion to simply be a dogmatic belief within a church system or doctrine


What I'm saying is not that, but that spirituality has no need of nor is bourne from religion, its dogmas, system, or doctrines, or any marriage with it. And that it is actually hampered by those very things.

The biggest reason being that people are taught to lie to themselves about believing accounts of history that they have no way to know and even reason to question, as well as a belief that through religious practices only can they achieve spirituality.

Another hampering quality is addiction. People can, and many do, become technically addicted/dependant to religion, these are the ones who get the most testy and defensive of their beliefs in response to any who question it.

There is no reason to claim belief in such things to have any form of faith, belief in god, good morals, any of it.

But without religious dogmas, systems, and doctrines, almost all of the largest and most mainstream religions would not exist. Yet spirituality would.

I'm not trying to make religions not exist, I'm trying to explain that most don't already.

People just choose to claim they "believe" that they do. And for all sorts of odd reasons that most have not bothered or asked why or are in denial of.

quote:
If you ever get close to someone who has a mental disease you will notice that they have an uncanny knack of seeing things that other people can't see


Runs in the family actually, seen some crazy shit. Brilliant people can often delve into paranoid delusions and into any number illnesses, be it genetically, fluke, or what-have you, "A Beautiful Mind" and "The Aviator" are two perfect movie examples. Another form of idiot savant in ways.

But ya, everything he said is quite possible, and factual in terms of modern day treatment of many of todays self proclaimed prophets.

What his theory is leaving out is of course the other main factor as we have both said corrupts these authenticity of many if not most religious "prophets", simple lust for power and greed. Lies.

And personal emotions, opinions, and education influence greatly both cases, be it delusions or lies. Most of which are under little control of any given individual.

quote:
The key here is tolerance and a faith in truth.... Be patient and believe that truth will prevail.


The truth is that good and bad exists equally in all things and actions. The rest is just subjective opinion. I'm just trying to get details.

quote:
Be patient and believe that truth will prevail.


Patience comes and goes on its own, and I wouldn't encourage it otherwise unless necessary and appropriate, because forced patience squelches instincual and naturally spontaneous passion. The source of all things great, be they "good" or "evil".

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 60yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
A religion is a formal belief system. Spirituality is anything but.




Religion is an attempt to communicate with the other world through prayers, fasts, ceremonies, meditation, song, etc. That is spiritual - however it may not be successful. Spirituality is the goal of religion.

A spiritual person is a religious person - Confucious taught that life is religion. But here in the west when we think of religion, we think of this church we go to every sunday and to few will even bother to ask why.

quote:
But without religious dogmas, systems, and doctrines, almost all of the largest and most mainstream religions would not exist. Yet spirituality would.


Exactly - This is what Jesus taught - he told the pharesees that this temple would be torn down and built back up - ofcourse they didn't understand him - but he was talking spirutial.

Jesus said the greatest shall be the least and he proved it by washing the feet of his disciples.

If the churches taught Jesus they would be more spiritual, but they don't, they teach Paul. They can't teach what they don't understand.

For the rest you have said - I agree with what you are doing and apologize for any missunderstanding.

You might like my new post - its only the bigginning, I'll do more. We have to try to stop Pat Robertson have his theme park in Isreal because there is nothing spiritual about it and it will only get more people killed, so I will do what I can. Every little bit helps.

I wrote this poem during the Baker scandle and I think it applies to Roberson. I think you'll like it:

http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/thrdid=59508-u-frmid=17

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Religion is an attempt to communicate with the other world through prayers, fasts, ceremonies, meditation, song, etc. That is spiritual - however it may not be successful. Spirituality is the goal of religion.

A spiritual person is a religious person - Confucious taught that life is religion. But here in the west when we think of religion, we think of this church we go to every sunday and to few will even bother to ask why.



I agree, and so to clarify, religion is technically the belief in a higher power, regardless of attempts to communicate, whereas belief in religious dogma and history is not religion, though a main focus of the mainstream, and is actually a negating force of spirituality, because of its demand of belief in things, many of which are bound to be proven false, but things other than the higher power itself.

quote:
They can't teach what they don't understand.


And generally won't teach that which undermines and contradicts their dogmas and systems of control.

| Permalink
"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 60yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
And generally won't teach that which undermines and contradicts their dogmas and systems of control.


This brings up another thing. The church should admonish those who have more to share their substance with those who have little. The bible does teach this, but they don't, rather they do what even Paul teaches not to, they give the rich person the best seat in the house (most say in chuch decisions) - so, ya its corrupt.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
The Disease of Religious Fundamentalism - Page 2
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