For things you have missed, you have gained something else; and for things you gain, you lose something - Summit
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The Art of Zen

User Thread
 30yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that MugenNoKarayami is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The Art of Zen
In my japanese class we've been discussing the art of zen and its origins in japan. This way of thinking got me very intrested and made me realize several things about myself and what Zen is all about.

I have been given the opprotunity to make my own 'koan' which is a puzzle that seems to be impossible... this is only so because it can not logically be "figured out". A question that makes you think with the inner portion of your mind that lies benieth the surface. [your subconscious if you will]

So I came up with the question... "how does one, or how can one cheat death?" The immediate answer some may think about is most likely wrong for it is not something you can put into a step process..You must feel the question. And it will be apparent that it is the most simple answer to the puzzling question.

some others that I think I can remember are:

-what is the sound of one hand clapping
-what does a new color look like
-if time never started then how can it end
-what would a world be like if thought doesnt exist unless you think about it
an abvious well known one

If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound?

the list goes on and on... are there any 'koans' that you would like to share... or give me more of an insight on what you have experienced with this art of Zen?

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"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"
 31yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that awakendwraith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
can i try and answer?

1. not care
2. nothing
3. exactly what we see
4. it doesn't
5. it wouldn't
6. of course it makes a sound. we just can't hear it.

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"Why cry for those that often cry? Instead, help them smile, and smile for those that smile."
 30yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that MugenNoKarayami is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
you can't really come to an instant conclusion you must contemplate all angles... if that makes sense XD

The point of these puzzles is to challenge your mind to open up and listen to that intuition that whispers in your thoughts.

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"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"
 30yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that MugenNoKarayami is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
~ Forgot to mention

If you're trying to solve a problem with a process or set rules...Even trying to use logic to solve it. The true,simple answer will not be whispered to you from within ...

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"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"
 31yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that awakendwraith is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
i wasnt. that was just the first thing that came to mine.

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"Why cry for those that often cry? Instead, help them smile, and smile for those that smile."
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
you may find this thread interesting: http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/thrdid=53452-u-frmid=12

what is the sound of one hand clapping - you might be interested in reading this Mugen: http://www3.tky.3web.ne.jp/~edjacob/koan.html

-what does a new color look like: the only colours that we perceive are part of the electromagnetic spectrum: these are shades of Red, Orange, Green, Yellow, Blue, Indigo, Violet. White light is red, green and blue combined.

-if time never started then how can it end : a term known as infinity. Space, time, and quantity is unbounded. There is no end.

-what would a world be like if thought doesnt exist unless you think about it- thats a contradiction 'if thought doesn't exist unless you think about it'.

If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound? One of the dumb philosophy questions, as it doesn't ask 'can we hear it' it just asks 'does it make a sound'. This is not so much a zen problem. It does indeed make a sound, regardless if we cannot hear it.
http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/thrdid=30554-u-frmid=12 theres also another thread on this topic.

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 30yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that MugenNoKarayami is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
As I was told It is very hard for me to just come up with a koan since my western style of thinking is continuously blocking my inner thought with logic and reasoning.

- If you have no emotions, Can you feel the softness of a pillow?

I think I worded that right...

It's not really something I can explain in words. however, I know that most of the time I am put up agsinst decisions and There is just that little intuition that speaks out to me And apparently that Is the subconscious way of thinking when you cannot make any logical connection to an answer.

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"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
If you have no emotions, Can you feel the softness of a pillow?


yes. This isn't really a koan, but almost. People can have the sensation of touch without feeling emotion. Touch and emotion may be related, yet not always directly.

As you mentioned it is impossible to practice koans using logical reasoning. Keep thinking, its good.

I've got one (it will make some frustrated [including myself] when they realise there is no logical answer ) :

The Acme Arms Company has invented a Super Bullet: a Super Bullet penetrates anything it hits. But the Adamantine Armor company has invented a Super Strong Armor Plate: nothing that hits a Super Strong Armor Plate penetrates it. The army is planning to shoot a Super Bullet at a Super Strong Armor Plate. What will happen?


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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
when the unstoppable Juggernaut fights the immovable Blob, what happens? who wins?

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
hehe same concept. I think for those two above scenarios two things could happen. either:
a.) energy expands and an explosion occurs thus producing a supernova OR
b.) energy contracts and becomes incredibly dense, and both objects collapse.

But hey now I'm thinking logically, which isn't the task.

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 30yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that MugenNoKarayami is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
People can have the sensation of touch without feeling emotion. Touch and emotion may be related, yet not always directly.


But surely every time you touch something, It would trigger some kind of thought or emotion right O_o?

The soft pillow would trigger the emotion of comfort and relaxation if you will. [now take out the emotion] would you be able to tell/feel if it were a soft pillow?

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"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zato is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
But surely every time you touch something, It would trigger some kind of thought or emotion right O_o?

The soft pillow would trigger the emotion of comfort and relaxation if you will. [now take out the emotion] would you be able to tell/feel if it were a soft pillow?


I think you can technically feel it. But it would not be what we would feel normally. It would be dull. We could feel it but we couldn't.. at the same time... are you following me?

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"Anything is Possible when you think illogically."
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Your brain interprets the type and amount of touch sensation. It also interprets the sensation as pleasant (such as being comfortably warm), unpleasant (such as being very hot) or neutral (such as being aware that you are touching something).
However some people with trauma, a damaged neural system or specific diseases may feel and recognize a painful sensation, but it does not bother them. With aging, you may have reduced or changed sensations of pain, vibration, cold, heat, pressure (which are all touch).
Put it this way, if one had no touch sensation, and they touched the pillow, they would not feel emotion. However they may feel emotion through other senses such as sight, hearing, taste, smell. Another example is when you get pins- and- needles in your foot, and you try walking with it. There isn't much emotion associated with that. Or when a part of one's body goes numb, there isn't really any emotion of feeling.

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angel Of Death is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
ok, since it appears that everyone here appears to be logically reasoning the questions, I ll give a very famous Koan(not so much in the west),which does not engage the interest of the intilect unlike questions like what is the sound of one hand clapping.
The koan is 'Mu'. Thats it, try to reason through this one
When a Buddhist student is assighned this koan, you have to think about it day and night, thinking about it even while you do other daily chores, until it becomes a part of your being, until it penetrates you to your very core, until you are in intence frustruation because you can't figure it out.....and then like a explosion you will awaken and become one with 'Mu', existence itself will manifest itself as Mu, (wat I m going to say has got something to do witht he answer, and I shouldn't be saying it since the answer of a Koan should never be told, you yourself should experiance it only, but since most of you don't pratcice it wouldn't do much harm) the fan won't be rotating, 'Mu' will, the clock doesn't tick, Mu ticks, the bird's chiming, the blowing wind, the rising sun, all Mu Mu Mu!

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"I'll heal ur woundz I'll set u free, I m jesus christ on xtacy"
 30yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that MugenNoKarayami is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Put it this way, if one had no touch sensation, and they touched the pillow, they would not feel emotion. However they may feel emotion through other senses such as sight, hearing, taste, smell.


But you wouldn't be able to feel any emotion at all from any of your senses... One could not possibly fathom the thought of what that would be like; The softness softness of the pillow would be non existent.

If this did ever happen you mind would try to compensate for that missing emotion by 'pretending' what that emotion is [If you were able to feel emotion before]

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"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"
The Art of Zen
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