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evolutřon???? - Page 5

User Thread
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
-evidence does show human transitional evidence.

-universal answer ? I'm a relativist.

-it does make sense. It does have foundation.

Where do you Zato, as an individual draw the line between knowledge, opinion and fact. It depends on where and when you claim that knowledge isn't credible. For example, physics is logical, and so is evolution. God for example is illogic. God is merely a human social construction. Aghh as much as I would like to go into detail, I can't discuss further until later, as I said.... exam time.

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zato is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Ok later it is. I have work now anyways.
We shall discuss.

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"Anything is Possible when you think illogically."
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that 730 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Sorry for not being able to reply earlier but i'm only moving with time and current situations....

quote:
The ultimate goal of science is to understand the natural world in terms of scientific theories, which are only concepts. The word 'theory' refers to a speculative idea. A theory can't claim the truth or fact- they are simply reasons.


So your belief of the specified concept is simply on reason, and not on fact.....so like i've stated before the ground for this concept of life is not there........If not a fact, it's a falsity....

quote:
I'll briefly answer your questions.
How is Light created?... Light is energy. At the atomic level, light are photons which are a quantum of the electromagnetic field. Photons are produced whenever charged particles are accelerated.This light is produced (in our solar system) from the sun. The sun is a massive ball of burning gases, hence this produces energy and photons are emitted, as a reaction product.


^^lmao.....see you still didn't answer my question....you're telling me something you read in a book, or something you're regurgitating from a professor.....see you're trying to explain what light is and you're using the sun, which is light!.... Light is heat, you can't have one without the other....therefore you saying that light comes from the sun is useless to me.....what about lightning?...what about light bulbs?...now i'm not talking about the physical attributes to a light bulb that would give you light...i'm talking about the actual essence of light...do you know the answer??....don't say the sun..Please

quote:
How are trees created?... from DNA at conception, sexually reproduce either via assissted pollination or self-pollination.


In order for a pollination to take place a tree must already be present right??...a flower has to come from a plant, so therefore you're doing the same thing as you did with the explanation of light....stating what's already there........try again.......I wanna make sure you exhaust your resources before we get into a real conversation....the almighty has a message for you evolution buffs....

quote:

How is dirt created? dirt is the by-product of erosion and weathering through the geohydrological cycle. To put simply-dirt is eroded rock. Rock comes from the lithosphere, where it's chemical properties, shape form, type, and composition is determined by plate tectonics.


Again....you're saying dirt comes from rocks.....what the hell? where do rocks come from which is just hardened dirt!... give me a source that is non existent, not a source that I already understand.....Sience is not complicated, it's confused...they're saying the same thing with more words.. lol

quote:

If evaporation happens everyday, why are there clouds sometimes in some areas and not there at other times?? Because moisture in the atmosphere is continuously imbalanced. Warm air massess and cool air masses are always moving and interacting. This happens by warm/cold fronts, orographic lift, and by convection caused by diurnal heating.


Honestly I don't know what you just said so i'ma accept your point of view on this one..........i'm sorry i'm a bit slow...lol

quote:
why does the sea stop at the sand (no matter how rough the sea is)? the sea stops at the sand because that is the global sea level. It rises and lowers due to tides. It also changes due to global climate conditions ie. glaciation/melting process (otherwise known as global cooling/warming).


you're still not answering my question!.....Flooding occurs sporadically.......Scientists can sometimes tell when flooding of the ocean is going to occur, and sometimes it just springs up on them because of wrong calculations right??...right!!... now if you also take in mind that global warming hasen't even been mentioned before the past 100 yrs, then you would take in mind that glacial melting had nothing to do with flooding persay before that.......the sea rises whenever it's ordered to.........

quote:
how are clouds created?... Clouds are a mass of condensation droplets or ice crystals suspended in the atmosphere. The air is cooled to its saturation point. This happens when the air comes in contact with a cold surface or a surface that is cooling by radiation, or the air is cooled by adiabatic expansion (rising). Also the air stays the same temperature but absorbs more water vapour into it until it reaches saturation.


this contradicts your first explanation of evaporation and all that good stuff...because you said the atmosphere was imbalanced......if that's so an imbalanced atmosphere would never allow for the temperature to stay at the suggested level for complete condensation to occur.....you would have rain every day!... and that's not the case is it???....lol...... i'm not trying to pick on you or anything like that...i'm just looking for an answer to the questions I asked you.....please holla back @ me......Blessings and guidance....

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"Being is not knowing!"
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
So your belief of the specified concept is simply on reason, and not on fact.....so like i've stated before the ground for this concept of life is not there........If not a fact, it's a falsity

To me my reasons are opinions. I gave you my reasons. I'm a relativist- there is no universal truth. There is no such thing as fact, just reasons, my friend. The ultimate goal of science is to understand the natural world in terms of scientific theories, which are only concepts.


Ok, I'm not sure if your trying to win over me, but I'll perceive that your not. I presume your just searching for answers (or reasons) that are suitable for you. You requested a reply to your questions, and I gave you my reasons. If these reasons aren't legit for your curiousity then I'll continue giving my reasoning. I can see where this is going....to the origin of life or everything as a whole. Ok, well quite frankly you should've asked more precise questions that alluded to your intentions.

1. Light:
Natural light can come from either the sun, a chemical reation (ie. lightning), or a lightbulb which is charged by an electrical current. So you want the origin. Light is a form of energy. Energy is a form of matter. Specific electrons that interact in a certain behaviour with each other at the quantum level can produce electromagnetic particles known as photons. The by-product is light!

2.Trees.
organisms are produced through reproduction. It is the central dogma. It is the blue print of life. If you want to know reasons for the origin of life, then ask (a clue: non-organic chemicals produced organic life)

3. Soil
You want a source?
Rocks come from mantle of earth. Rocks are hardened magma. Magma is heated minerals and elements. Elements and minerals are chemical matter. Chemical matter is energy. Energy is matter! and vica versa. Everything physical is a form of energy and matter.

quote:
you're still not answering my question!.....Flooding occurs sporadically.......Scientists can sometimes tell when flooding of the ocean is going to occur, and sometimes it just springs up on them because of wrong calculations right??...right!!... now if you also take in mind that global warming hasen't even been mentioned before the past 100 yrs, then you would take in mind that glacial melting had nothing to do with flooding persay before that.......the sea rises whenever it's ordered to.........

4. Global warming/cooling has occured several times since the origin of earth (4.6billion yrs ago). Global warming/cooling has a huge significance to global sea levels. The amount of water has and will always stay the same volume on earth. The hydrologic system of recylcing water is through the atmosphere,land and ocean. (the only way to get rid of water is through exiting it into space). It is where the water is spatially distributed that affects the sea levels.

quote:
if that's so an imbalanced atmosphere would never allow for the temperature to stay at the suggested level for complete condensation to occur.....you would have rain every day!... and that's not the case is it?

5. You obviously don't understand fully. Temperatures fluctuate due to changing air masses, and the degree and distance from the sun. When an air mass and the land/sea is at the appropriate temperature then clouds form.



This is an opportunity for you to ask precise questions now. I presume you may request reasoning on the origin of everything.

Please note, that in my absolute foundations of reasoning, I never claim fact, only opinion. Although it may appear that my reasoning is of the nature of a determinist, in the end it is not indeed. I am a relativist. My reasoning is part of my individual truth. Nothing can be deduced down to an absolute universal truth. And yes whatever you say, whatever I say, only applies to one's self.


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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that 730 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
^^Now I understand you.....now that you took it back to simplicity.....And you say you believe in science.....Science is a by product of what 'is'.......Science was introduced to explain reality....reality of nature and every physical aspect of life....Now that you said you believe in no universal truth, then truth is beyond you so an argument or debate rather would be pointless, because we would just be going around in circles.........reasoning is a proccess of eternal consequences, because if not done right you will never reach the answer.....yes the journey is good, but aimless searching will get you nowhere (speaking about the mind). Thanks again for answering my questions, i've been enlightened, it's greatly appreciated.....

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"Being is not knowing!"
 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that wizardslogic is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
There might be a middleground with respect to Evolution and Creationism--a wierd, but a possible middle-ground. I once did research for one of my professors in college on different ideas about the nature of time, from religious to mystical to philosophical to the to the psychological to the scientific. One interesting conclusion was that linear time could be represented as a line--to the left is the past and to the right is the future. The present is a point on the line that bisects it into past and future, and the past and future are determined only by our position on the line. The point is like our mind or consciousness. It was decided that this nonexistent point we call the present is illusory because the clock is always ticking, and the imaginary dividing lines between one moment are the next are impossible to capture. In fact, at any given moment we do not see the world as it is NOW, but as it was only a fleeting moment ago--light traveling at 186,000 miles per second. It was concluded, then, that the present is illusion and the past and future exist NOW beyond this illusory point we call the present.

Since it was determined that time-experience, the flow of time, is perceived differently at different times and for different people, it was decided that different beings might experience time differently and, thus, a squirrel, a fly, and a human being might see the world as moving faster or slower than each other. Time-experience, then, might be an altogether subjective experience.

The whole point to this was that it was regarded as possible that there may be beings that have what may be called an expanded experience of the NOW, called the Eternal Now in Hindu philosophy, whereby they experience an expanded point, mind or consciousness, on the line of time to include more time of the past and future simultaneously, constituting what may be regarded as an expanded present. Pretty wierd so far, huh?

Anyway, the idea was that a god, or God, may experience hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of years, in what may be experienced as only a matter of moments. Therefore, individual entities, like living beings, would no longer be substantial because they would be born, grow, die and disappear in such a minute amount of time as to be completely unnoticeable in a perceptible sense. Taken together as a whole, individual living entities might constitute microscopic cells of some greater organism, just like individual cells in our bodies, although acting independently and carrying out primary functions, constitute us as a whole human being. In a sense, we may say that metaphysical concepts, like Man, become the objective substance of a god, or God, with such an expanded experience of time (which is a return to Plato's Forms).

Anyway, we concluded that it might be possible that what we call evolution is only apparent to us because of our extremely limited time-experience. For a god, or God, on the other hand, evolution might represent the development of one being, the metaphysical concept Man, from conception to adulthood over a period of millions of years, and the individual life-forms marked by this process are like individual developing cells. Therefore, evolution is evolution only to us, but not to a god, or God. I told you this viewpoint was weird.

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"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zato is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Very interesting view point wizardslogic.
I'll have to research that a little now that you made me think of the possibilities.
I had a view point I thought of once.
I'll share it if no one minds.
First remember that anything is possible.
It starts off with the idea that resembles the matrix.
It kind of resembles wizardslogic's view point in the sense that millions of years could go by in only a few moments.
Imagine that we are just a vessel of a higher being.
That higher being is yourself as the essence of mind.
When you die you return to your higher self's vessel of what ever sort it could be. The idea is that the higher beings created a lower or equivalent reality to their own but is not real. It's merely a game or a alternate reality. But when you connect your brain/mind into the game it transfer you to a game body that is you. You grow up and mature not knowing why you are there and what your purpose. But none the less you live your life and learn everything in that life time and when you die you return to your higher self while remember everything that happened in that previous life. All this happens with in a matter of seconds just like a dream because it is a alternate created reality/game where time is determined by you the user.
in this possibility a young higher self may have lived thousands of lives and is still in his/her youth.
Very wise, very smart, very experienced and very young.
I appologize if I cannot explain my thoughts very well.
Ill give a brief overview.
- Anything is possible.
- Our mind is really the essence of a higherself that is controlling the vessels known as human bodies via the reality/game.
- We live out our life however and when we die we return to our higherself and remember who we really are while realizing and remembering all the learnt information in the past life.
- When we connect via mind to the reality/game we loose all our memory while in the reality/game.
- The life time happens in seconds resembling a dream.
- It is possible that this explains the lack of known human prupose.
- It's possible right?

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"Anything is Possible when you think illogically."
[  Edited by Zato at   ]
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that 730 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Wizards logic is a GENIUS....................that's exactly what i'm saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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"Being is not knowing!"
 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that wizardslogic is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Thanx for the compliment 730, but I have to admit that this idea of the subjectivity of space and time has been talked about for centuries, although only vaguely touched upon. Kant was closest when he said that three-dimensional space and linear time are just categories of thought and perception and not properties of the external world. But these assertions are what leads us to the possibility that the external world is really beyond space and time, that is, transcendent and metaphysical, and our minds may be what has always been regarded as the sixth sense or third eye capable of touching the true nature of the real world, which may be very similar to thought, a mental world. Pretty wild, huh? This is what I call wizard's logic.

Interesting ideas Zato. Life is alot like a dream, I think. I once read that the human mind (soul or spirit, or whatever you wanna' call it) was like a small bubble of space and time looking out into a world that was both spaceless and without time. Within us, however, somehow exists all things (including all beings) and all time because we are vastly infinite and composed of the same substance (may it be called matter) of everything in the entire universe. Therefore, the universe is not just outside us, it's within us at the same time. We are the god's of our own universe, and nothing and no one else should be able to affect us witthout our permission, especially since we ourselves in a sense create this effect on us. There's alot of stuff out there that logically supports this idea. assuming, of course, you establish that space and time are not real properties of the external world. The higher self may be just realizing this fact and recognizing the transcendent and metaphysical nature of all things in what we regard as the physical world. I think the world is alot more amazing than it ordinarily seems.

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"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zato is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Its simply amazing to think of how we are made up of the same thing as anything and everything else in this universe.
When it comes down to it we are all the same.
Just amazing.
Much <3

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"Anything is Possible when you think illogically."
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that 730 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
precisely......how infinite is mind of the creature called man...lol............so perfect and so close, yet with our lack of understanding we're so far.....it's good to have a philosophical background to this kind of stuff....people tend to think you're crazy when you tell them about themselves, ourselves.....

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"Being is not knowing!"
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Summit, do you understand where I am coming from with the whole "it doesn't make sense because there is no foundation" aspect?
foundation being the origin of anything with out a God.

Well, no. I don't believe in a hypothetical so called 'God' foundation. 'God' and religion is just a human construct. The only foundation to the 'God foundation' is a culmination of feebleminded superstituous human thought. Its an illusion.


quote:
it might be possible that what we call evolution is only apparent to us because of our extremely limited time-experience.


wizardlogic: I have read on that metaphysical ideology before. Interesting, but not credible at all for me. This so called 'extremely limited time-experience' doesn't exactly have any implication for the theory of evolution. If we put 'time' into context evolution commenced 3.5bya. Evolution is the process of evolving life. Evolution doesn't occur in an individual, evolution occurs with populations.

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Zato is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Well, no. I don't believe in a hypothetical so called 'God' foundation. 'God' and religion is just a human construct. The only foundation to the 'God foundation' is a culmination of feebleminded superstituous human thought. Its an illusion.


I have been thinking alot lately and I agree with your thought about God. The thought of God is just as illogical as evolution.
When I say that I mean think about where God came from.
He didn't, he was always there he has no beginning.
Which is a illogical foundation. Although it is believable.
Evolution has no explaination of where anything originated.
Which is illogical as well. (as far as I know.. no one person has ever expressed where anything came from in the theory of evolution and I don't see any logical explaination anyways.)

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"Anything is Possible when you think illogically."
 68yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
here is a rudimentary drawing for you visual folks.


http://www.amonline.net.au/human_evolution/images/image002.gif
Review of this thread I checked linked gif so I wonder does these splits in evolution [other primates] have evidence {missing links} which were found therefore verifying evolution of species?

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
 30yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that the great focy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Honestly this is easy. There doesn't have to be a ground floor to anything if you have lots of big fans and enough money to keep them going. Why would it be impossible to start from nothing?

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"I can't believe I ate the whole thing"
evolutřon???? - Page 5
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