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Gay Marraige, For or Against? - Page 2

User Thread
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Very good question, in politicians and specific religious people's eyes its and all important question, But should it matter, not IMO.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 46yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that thoughtmanifest is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I'm sure we're hearing each other leftwood. Can "choosing to live a gay lifestyle" really "gay"?

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"Love everyone, question everything and look up!"
 46yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that thoughtmanifest is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I agree that it shouldn't matter whether or not it is a choice. I think, like I said in my original post, both are possible and occur.

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"Love everyone, question everything and look up!"
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that bmxbiker16 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The only people questioning whether Homosexuality is a choice or not are people trying to rationalize their hatred.

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"I may disagree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death your right to say it"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Yep, politicians pussy-footing around the issue, can't lose the gay vote, and can't lose the homophobe vote.

I love it when Bush says something like, we have to respect thier rights, and then I'm trying to AMMEND THE CONSTITUTION banning gay marriage.

I

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I think someone needs to write down what the purpose of marriage is.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Domz0r is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Is it not an action, of where two people take the ultimate commitment to each other, to show how much they love on another.
Gay or straight marriges...

same principle

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"I am Domz0r....roar!!!!"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Ya Bush says he wants to promote marriage but make a form of marriage illegal. Curious indeed. There is no reasoning behind it other than religioun and homophobia, and this is our president, that will probably be re-elected, he doesn't care about people, he cares about himself and his beliefs, quote, "....God told me to strike Al Quaida and I struck them, and he instructed me to strike Saddam, which I did...." George W. Bush.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 58yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Lady Tazmanian is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I see no reason why marriage should be defined soley as a unity between a man and woman.

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 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
For those who feel differently than LadyTaz, why do you think marriage should be exclusively between a man and a woman, personally, and how did you come to feel that way?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 45yrs • M •
allahhooah is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
marraige throughout history has been the joining of man and woman. I am married , and it would not be the same if i had married some dude rather than my lovely wife.I feel like allowing the gays to marry is wrong. As there is a need to formalize the gay's relationships, a new classification needs to be recognized by state and fedral governments. for example
two guys who love each other and want to be legally joined should be able to attain the status of "legal partner" or somthing similar.
Nobody has the right to condemn what gays do , as long as they follow laws like the rest of us - but a man cannot be a bride and a woman cannot be a groom.

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 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
marraige throughout history has been the joining of man and woman.


And the persecution and repression of homosexuals has been around for some time now too? Is this what validates something?

Marriage has taken multiple forms, polygamy being another, and history is bound to find somewhere somewhen refuting your claim

Marriage is even a word that can be used to desribe the relationship between the wire and the fabric of the average push up bra.

quote:
I am married , and it would not be the same if i had married some dude rather than my lovely wife.


Why?

If you weren't at least pretending to be attracted to and in love with this random dude you mentioned, he probably wouldn't have married you to begin with.

Besides the obvious, reduced genital variety, and alternative means of, or donors for, reproduction, what would be different?

Would you try to harm him rather than care for him? What exactly?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 45yrs • M •
allahhooah is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Allowing same sex marriages will inevitably open a can of worms. Allowing the rights of same sex marriages will ultimately lead to the allowance of polygamy and at some point lead to the acceptance of pedophilia. What would discern the rights of these individuals compared to those that are homosexuals. The argument of who does it hurt if people wish to partake in same sex marriages holds no water if they can't allow the same rights to these other individuals. Allowing one type of sexual deviance can only lead to the allowance of these and other types. If you don't think this is possible, just look at the past and the changes that have occurred. Some crimes that used to be misdemeanors are no longer, and the same with felonies that are now considered misdemeanors. If something such as exit exams are too difficult (8th & 9th grade math and english) we attempt to solve this problem by making it easier for them instead of rectifying the real problem of them not learning. If you're a scietific type of person, than try to figure out how our species can reproduce if we were all involved in same sex relationships. It's about time the people of this country wake and realize that were headed in the wrong direction. There is too much insistance on the rights of individuals and less on what is more beneficial for this country. The lack of nationalism and religion is leading this country to implode. I have yet to find anyone who doesn't believe the founders of this country were far ahead of their time when designing the Constitution. The laws of this country were based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, as of late we have fallen away from these beliefs and wonder why it isn't as safe, why it isn't as productive, why it isn't as respected, why our children aren't even safe in our own homes or schools, etc...So, once again the American people will be fooled by the bleeding heart liberals who attempt to appease all, no matter how immoral it is, and open a can of worms that will help destroy what used to be the greatest country on this planet.
I believe that besides body parts, men and women are different in other ways in regards to the ways they are wired to work. "Normal" not gay, or un-sexually disabled men teach boys to become men. "Normal" not gay, unsexually disabled women teach girls to become women. With regards to raising children, how can a true gay male person teach a boy to be a true male or a gay female teach a girl to become a true female, if they are naturally and fudamentally sexually disabled in their wiring?
I believe gays were born this way, that is is not a choice who they were made to be attracted to. They are attracted to their own sex which is not the right way to make children. They can't make children because of the way they feel. They were made this way by nature. I also believe that besides this one flaw in their whole make-up that they are "normal" in every other way. I sincerely believe that gays are a form of "nature's" birth control. After all, gays are born of/ come from a hertosexual man and woman.
What are gays doing when they are having sex? "Pretending" to make children? An orgasm is the release of human seeds for the purpose of making children. You can show your love and commitment to someone without having sex. Gays having sex is artificial to it's purpose. What are they doing? So what are gays to do about those sexual feelings they have that don't produce what those sexual feelings were meant to accomplish?
Gays can live the family life, but the creation of that family is artificial and non-traditional. It's like calling margarine-butter and insisting it's that it IS butter. It's like putting gas in the tail-pipe of a car. We know where the parts are really supposed to go. It's like two tops together or two bottoms. They don't fit. Gays just seem to gloss over the fundamental facts like they don't matter. They want to "take" marriage in the traditional sense that wasn't meant for them. Marriage "belongs" to a man and woman. They want to "take" the "real" meaning of marriage and apply it to their artificially made family life. They want to say that nothing is wrong with them, when fundamentally there is. They are sexually disabled. Just like a car that is a "lemon" off the assembly line. You can't quite put your finger on it, and it runs, but not the way it should.
Sure I can accept gay people and their lifestyles. What bothers me though is that they want to take something, a fundamental, sacred, the basic part of life, a meaning and actions, and change it to include them. Why can't they come up with a new term and meaning that fits their lifestyle and values. The lifestyle that they want is kind of like marriage, but it's not in the basic fundamental, life creating sexual way. They are sexually disabled in that sense.
Sex was made to make children and you can't do that with your same sex. Nature made two sexes for that pupose that were made to "fit" together. The penis of a man was not meant to go up someones rear end. The rear end was meant for waste leaving the body. A vagina cannot "fit" into another vagina. Breasts were made to feed children. The sex drive, that pleasurable feeling, was put there so people of the opposite sex would be attraced to one another to have sex, to continue our species. If it didn't feel good, who would do it? What's the point?

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 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Allowing same sex marriages will inevitably open a can of worms.


Presumptive aren't you, well, I doubt you are correct.

But, I'll tell you that your arrogance in thinking you should have any say in the matter might, and the continual repression of the actions and choices of others who do not share your beliefs will most definitely open just such a can.

quote:
What would discern the rights of these individuals compared to those that are homosexuals


Like D said, legal consent, end of story. Which is indeed why Polygamy should be allowed, regardless of whether you like it or not, or even if I do.

quote:
If you're a scietific type of person, than try to figure out how our species can reproduce if we were all involved in same sex relationships.


Yeah, that's a tuffy, um, donor, surrogate. You simply mate with a member of the opposite sex. Go see just how many of your neighbors kids are biological products of the married adults raising them.

quote:
It's about time the people of this country wake and realize that were headed in the wrong direction.


No shit, we are evicerating the constitution and bill of rights, Invading multiple foreign countries and committing war crimes. We are being led by criminals who make money off of war, and plenty of American's are defending it, though usually quite ignorantly of the facts of the situation.

And then we have assholes too concerned about who's fucking who and what words they use to define their legal and or loving unions to bother to notice that they are causing WWIII.

Watch this...

quote:
I have yet to find anyone who doesn't believe the founders of this country were far ahead of their time when designing the Constitution.


I'll introduce you to one. Here's what that constitution bashing asshat had to say.

quote:
There is too much insistance on the rights of individuals and less on what is more beneficial for this country.


Damn Orwellian double speak.

But you being a Constitutional defender would surely argue that "this country" is its people, its individuals. That historically the purpose of the constitution is to defend freedom from tyranny, to simplify, defending the rights of the individuals from those who would take them away.

And being a religious, judeo-christian even from the sound, constitutional defender, then you simply must rebut by informing that poor confused soul that what he doesn't seem to understand about the constitution, and these rights he feels people are too concerned about, is that the constitution was meant to protect through man's law those rights that are inalienable, as they are god given. Meaning, you can't take them, there is no earthly authority that can claim to do so, nor that you must obey when they claim otherwise.

quote:
The laws of this country were based on Judeo-Christian beliefs


Which were based on many things. The beliefs that made sense were most common in most religions and were even the general practiced ideals and beliefs of many pagans and athiests.

Many founders were indeed self proclaimed devoted Christians, as well as secret society members with an alternative creator of the universe theory and code of ethics. And others debated over the Christian faith and there lack of it.

Judeo-Christian beliefs are exclusivist. Freedom of religion, other than there own, is not their policy of acceptance, making aspects of the constitution non judeo christian in their roots as well.

And regardless of their getting some things right. We're talking about people who wrote of the equality and freedom of man but often owned slaves.

Hmmm, come to think of it, I'm not familiar with God's posistion on slavery? If someone has read the good book lately and can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

quote:
as of late we have fallen away from these beliefs and wonder why it isn't as safe, why it isn't as productive, why it isn't as respected, why our children aren't even safe in our own homes or schools, etc...


Indeed, but gays weren't part of the equation. The beliefs we are falling away from are of protecting the rights of the individual from those, especially in power, who would take it.

Our country isn't falling apart because people are too gay or not religious enough. Its falling apart because we the people have become engrossed in civil debate over lies and propaganda in all directions. We are too busy bitching at and pointing fingers to realize our hands aren't on the wheel. We aren't running this country right now, that is what is not good for the people or for this country.

Hopefully I'll remember to get back to the rest of your post, because it is equally as silly.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
allahhooah

I don't know just how religious you are but ultimately it doesn't matter, your opinion has no basis other than your most prominent religion of choice and or exposure.

And because you do appear to be fairly close minded on the issue I'm led to assume you are more active and at least selectively fundamentalist, whether you fully grasp it or not.

Given this I doubt there is much room for reasonable debate, for you intimate that you hold a conclusion.

None of your conjecture about the differences of male and female hold any authority or sustainable reasoning to suggest that the distribution of sexual pleasure should be confined to any restrictions, let alone sex combination discrimination.

For procreation, sure, sex, how so, what do you have to back up that assertion that isn't religious based opinion.

And do you want to know what really doesn't help your posisition on the matter, masturbation, how many times have you held a cock in your hands?

How many times have you had to wipe yourself clean of a hot gooey load of man juice you Jesus lover you?

Say it, admit it out loud, you love to stroke cock.

Does this mean you are gay? Probably. But never fear. The beautiful thing here is you're just paranoid, even if it did matter Jesus would forgive.

Though I'm sure you are too frightened to ponder such a thing, you and your religious or religious based conclusions could be wrong.

Then it could be argued that these boundaries are illusions, created by codes derived from any number of possible sources but most common is indeed a religious declaration and fear of reprisal, which can easily be argued to be a superstitious fear, if only because most religions proclaim this of eachother. (I for one feel inclined to concur when I see such overwhelming agreement, if they all say they are all wrong, so be it.)

And it is already a physical fact that sexual pleasure can be derived from and distributed freely between any combination of the sexes.

And although I too believe that sexual pleasure is probably meant to help procreation, I don't think it is limited to it. That's all, that's the nutshell of the difference of ideas, but you are probably like so many and will forever shun such possible expressions of pleasure and love creating suffering and hate in its stead, due simply to your indoctrination into religious paranoia that you likely ironically claim to be a source of love, acceptance, and forgiveness.

You see, when I spoke of such classifications as illusions, I don't think gay exists, at least not as a restriction, it can be a term used to speak of same sex relations but it doesn't mean that the people engaged in the act of a same sex relation cannot have, previous, later, or even simultaneous relations with the opposite sex.

I have these thoughts, I think they are true, but if I personally ever had the urge to act on them, I would fear ever even entertaining the thought of doing so, do you know why, because I have been to church, and witnessed the cold judgement of Christians in particular, this I find to be ironic.

Some are "saddened by the loss of a wayward soul" but are ok with it burning in hell, others are venomous and hateful, some to the extent of violence.

How is this sensible or righteous? And how can it allow for anything but judgement, bigotry, and persecution?

Didn't we learn this lesson from slavery and segregation?

Stop trying to justify your attempt to control the god given will of others when the acts are not violent or reasonably dangerous.

No, stop it.

quote:
"Normal" not gay


Sexual is normal, restricting it other than to allow for other activities and sanitation is open to argument.

Contrary to religious belief, humans didn't come with manuals dictating these things, to the best of our knowledge.

quote:
un-sexually disabled men teach boys to become men. "Normal" not gay


This is correct, for some reason, many men teach boys to not be gay or bi. And it would seem that this is mostly because they fear their believed interpretation of god punishing these boys, and of course of the judgement of their fellow indoctrinated peers, of kids bullying and adults harming or killing because of extremist views.

I hope you have a gay child. But only if you are able to snap out of it, many are so blind they would hurt their own children because of this, in all kinds of ways. Like telling them god will torture them for eternity for it. (Even people like you who claim they are born that way)

quote:
What are gays doing when they are having sex? "Pretending" to make children? An orgasm is the release of human seeds for the purpose of making children. You can show your love and commitment to someone without having sex. Gays having sex is artificial to it's purpose. What are they doing? So what are gays to do about those sexual feelings they have that don't produce what those sexual feelings were meant to accomplish?


This again is no different than the masturbation. Its all practice for procreation on one level yes, but this does not mean it serves no other purpose. Such an accessible source of pleasure and or simple release is quite sensibly interpretable as a needed means to help maintain chemical levels and emotions as well as just cleaning out the works of the ever producting and wasting of our reproductive system.

Its not unreasonable to suggest that a large source of imbalance in our societies comes from misshandling of such a delicate yet simple and balanced systems of nature by influence irrational superstitious beliefs.

Your views here are less orthodox, feel free to clarify if I seem to pigeon hole you as any degree of religious faith, as I mentioned earlier I don't know but I feel it is the underlying factor for your opinion, regardless of your actual beliefs.

quote:
Gays can live the family life, but the creation of that family is artificial and non-traditional.


This is utter nonsense. A family is a collection of many sexes and roles whose basic qualification is more than one person taking care of another but usually is thought of in terms of the raising of children.

If a father dies in a house of five, are they no longer a family, of course not. If two brothers raise the kids of their dead wives are they not a family?

These varieties create the expanse of perspectives and training in dealing with adapting to life and circumstance, this is the fatal flaw of many religions and such general beliefs of "abnormalities" instead of simple differences and adaptations.

It is normal for families to grow and shrink, to transmogrify with eventualities, your opinions are but close minded attempts to push your beliefs on others, more aptly, your programming to push the beliefs or wills of others onto as many people as possible. Some for religious purposes, some because they just want to feel certain and righteous, most just because they go with the flow.

quote:
They want to "take" the "real" meaning of marriage and apply it to their artificially made family life.


Marriage is the artificial family life, it is man made. Nature did not dictate it, and most humans don't follow your ideal marriage. Till death do you part, no cheating, ya right.

quote:
Gays having sex is artificial to it's purpose.


Again, procreation is not the lone purpose of sex.

quote:
Sure I can accept gay people and their lifestyles. What bothers me though is that they want to take something, a fundamental, sacred, the basic part of life, a meaning and actions, and change it to include them.


Wow, you accept but refuse to include, acrimoniously duplicitous and yet sugar coated of you. The definition of Politician I might add.

quote:
Why can't they come up with a new term and meaning that fits their lifestyle and values.


If the original meaning of the word specifies a union of man and woman from religious origins or not, than sure, But is that the case?

Just know that you are crushing millions of little girls in boys bodies dreams that have generally been force fed them since birth.

quote:
They are sexually disabled. Just like a car that is a "lemon" off the assembly line.


Nope, it can have sex and it can procreate, abled, its just european, it drives on the other side of the road.

quote:
The lifestyle that they want is kind of like marriage, but it's not in the basic fundamental, life creating sexual way.


Bullshit. Like any hetero household, gay households debate on child rearing and and indeed raise them.

quote:
Nature made two sexes for that pupose that were made to "fit" together.


You are silly aren't you.

I bet you never thought that the pleasant sensation that comes with a good solid shit could be the neon sign to just such a non baby creating alternative for such purposes as stated far above plus more?

Not to mention, things seem to fit.

quote:
The penis of a man was not meant to go up someones rear end.


It was made to be stimulated to expel its contents for procreation and waste.

quote:
The rear end was meant for waste leaving the body.


And in males houses the prostate capable of causing orgasm, fancy that, and is made of similar tissue as the vagina and mouth, all readily utilized by all sexes for sex and various functions.

quote:
A vagina cannot "fit" into another vagina.


Outstanding observation, but the penis is one the most easily and commonly recreated, imitated, and perhaps utilized artifacts on earth in human societies.

quote:
If you're a scietific type of person, than try to figure out how our species can reproduce if we were all involved in same sex relationships.


Oh ya, who said anything about "all" being "involved in same sex relationships. Actually, the argument is for not restricting to one such extreme when clearly what this reality deals in is balance.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
Gay Marraige, For or Against? - Page 2
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