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"Terrorism": Does Anyone Really Understa

User Thread
 44yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Siegfriedson is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"Terrorism": Does Anyone Really Understa
Terrorism –The Unexamined Moral Issue

by Bradley Smith

Let's define what we're talking about. "Terrorism" is the intentional killing of innocent, unarmed civilians to gain a political end. We all condemn terrorism.

Terrorists argue that their motive for killing innocent, unarmed civilians is to achieve a "greater good" for those they represent. Their sincerity is confirmed by the voluntary sacrifice of their own lives for this "greater good."

It is argued by those who support Al Qaeda that the young Arabs who voluntarily sacrificed their own lives to intentionally kill some 3,000 innocent, unarmed American civilians in the World Trade Center, did so in the sincere belief that it was for the "greater good" of Arabs and Muslims everywhere.

When Hamas volunteers sacrifice their own lives to kill unarmed Israeli civilians, they claim that it is for the "greater good" of all Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims everywhere. Their own voluntary deaths confirm their sincerity.

Terrorism is not a black and white issue, but a morally complex one. One that is not yet being addressed by Americans.

Americans, Democrats and Republicans alike, argue that when they burned alive the civilian populations of Nagasaki, Hamburg, and a hundred other Japanese and German cities, that it was for a "greater good," and therefore that it was "morally right."

There is a consensus in American culture that intentionally killing innocent, unarmed civilians during a war is one thing, while intentionally killing innocent, unarmed civilians when there is no "war," is something else. Then it is "terrorism."

Continued:

http://www.breakhisbones.org/outlaw/apressroom.html


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"For a racial reality check, visit: www.stormfront.org"
 46yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that thoughtmanifest is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I don't doubt that in all of these terrorist and otherwise named scenarios you're referring to that the people involved truly believe that they are acting for the greater good and therefore feel their actions are justified. But it's THEIR greater good. One group of people vs another group of people. Is that truly the greater good?

What is the desired end result? Peace? If killing your opponents is the method, is peace a viable end result?

To me the greater good means humanity. Something that supports all people everywhere.

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"Love everyone, question everything and look up!"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that tangentboy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Terrorism is all very subjective.

Everything is to a purpose, and everything has a motive.


What Martin Luther King said that great day "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." " is something Americans believe they are now upholding, but nothing is further from the truth.

They are the kings of the world, and it just isn't how it should be. It is, in effect throwing that speech into the wastepaper basket. It wasn't just about race, it was about everyone.

Terrorists object to that, and that it why I think 9/11 happened.

I Definatley do not believe it was the right thing to do, however, as violence in any form is wrong.

America were right to get rid of Saddam, as he was a violent and evil man.

But now he has gone, they should get out, and practise what they preach about equality.

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"Ég gaf ykkur von varš aš vonbrigšum.... Petta er įgętis byrjun"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
thought, to take you one further, does it really stop at humanity? Or are we truly only concerned with ourselves and truly are a cancer on this planet? All religious answers are far too convienent, vague, unproveable, improbable, and self serving to even take seriously let alone be used as a basis for this answer.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
And tangent, as for you all forms of violence being wrong where do you lie on the issue of self defense, like say someone attacked you or a loved one?


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 46yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that thoughtmanifest is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Or are we truly only concerned with ourselves and truly are a cancer on this planet?

I think that's the case for some but not all. I agree with you that it does go beyond humanity but also includes it. Much of what we do is part of the "virus" as you call it. In fact it is the only source. If we didn't exist there would be no virus. But that doesn't mean that the only answer is to rid the universe of ourselves. It means that if we can change our perspective to begin creating positive results.

Where was the "religious" reference? Peace?... Humanity working in support of humanity?... To me that's just logical as a desired end result that we can all agree on. If we start acting in support of and promoting ideas that we all agree on that is the reality we will create.

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"Love everyone, question everything and look up!"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that tangentboy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
If the person had been hurt and there was nothing I could do about that, then i'd help them recover and help them get over it.

If the person who did it was still there, i'd pull them away, and threaten them, but only in a dire situation would I ever consider hurting them back.

I see that as going to there level, and that is definatley something I do not want to become.

Ironically enough, I practice T'ai Chi, Qi Gong and Hsing and have done so since I was 8. These are very peaceful practices, but could be turned agrresively, especially Hsing, so I could easily use it to my advantage in a confrontational situation, but it is something I really wouldn't consider doing unless I was really pushed into it.

I was in a fight once, and all the way through it I let him hit me. He hit me a few times in the face, but mainly my stomach. I kept saying to myself "This isn't going to hurt me, i'm better than this person" and it truely didn't hurt.

Eventually the guy looked at me and saw I wasn't phased by it, and ended up running away thinking I was a freak, or that i was going to really hurt him, or something.

It was the best feeling in the world, knowing i'd ended a confrontation without fighting back, without even putting effort into it, even when I had the potential skills of seriously hurting him.

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"Ég gaf ykkur von varš aš vonbrigšum.... Petta er įgętis byrjun"
 46yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that thoughtmanifest is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Wow TB. I for one find that very admirable... and I'm sure it's been your practice in martial arts that allowed you to maintain that state of mind when confronted in such a manner. Most people would "snap" under those circumstances and, like you said, "go to their level".

But like the old saying goes two wrongs don't make a right. That will always be true.

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"Love everyone, question everything and look up!"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that tangentboy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Thank you

Makes me feel really good someone saying that <hugs>

Yeah, its kinda always how I felt, that its never right to hurt anyone, or indeed anything (i'm vegetarian).

Its hard maintaining it when theres so much anger floating around, but I just keep it by telling myself how much of a beautiful world we live in, and that anger will only make it worse for everyone

Thank you so much anyway mate

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"Ég gaf ykkur von varš aš vonbrigšum.... Petta er įgętis byrjun"
 46yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that thoughtmanifest is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
My pleasure... it's rare and deserves a mention.

Here's something totally off topic... regarding vegetarianism. I'm not trying to start a debate about "right" or "wrong" in killing animals for food, to each their own in my opinion.

But something you said struck me, and I'm sure that most vegetarians share the view of "hurting something" as one of the reasons to not eat animals. What's the differene between killing an animal for food and killing a plant for food? Why is one justifiable and one not?

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"Love everyone, question everything and look up!"
 46yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that thoughtmanifest is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I should probably have started a new thread with that question... it's completely off the topic of terrorism... so I will...

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"Love everyone, question everything and look up!"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
well thought, that wasn't the last stop, if it goes beyond humanity, then what's left, well one thing is life itself, physically living biological creatures require the consumption of other life forms, life itself is a cancer, as for other natural resources and how we destroy everything not living too, well thats all humans, if animals do it its mainly for shelter or beaver damns. We managed a way to eat inanimate objects too, how clever. So not only can we claim the crown of greatest destroyers of life, we get an award for managing a spare and destroying everything else too, I'm so proud.

So where is the possitive found in that other than in an emotional based notion that just sounds and feels better than nothing? The only thing off hand I can think for you to go with that is if we succeed in preserving life eternally I guess, any life. But then that still comes down to a purpose in life, and I don't have a clue as to what thread this is at the sec for prior statements of mine but I've talked about what kinda of purpose could possibly exist.

As for possitive thinking for possitive results we again come back to what is possitive, reverting to Adam and Eve life? Immortality? What, why? Why any of it. To serve god, to what end, to be with god? Well what was the point of the dog and pony show? Are you sure you know what you desire in this? Would you like living as Adam and Eve, they describe it as perfect and wonderful do they not? To not know good and evil, to not know what god created and made us, you see, there is no chicken and the egg debate when explaining things through religion and god, god made us, god made evil, and if we are evil in any way it is because god made or taught us that way, we had no one to learn from but god, god made the devil, god is all powerful, the devil wasn't said to have had free will was he? Curious indeed. Even if he did its is still his responsibility, everything is, so either he just made us evil or through bad parenting taught us to be evil, and if he can't parent than who can.

Free will negates god's power and even if it is manageable, it still doesn't bring any illumination to purpose. Nor does it give indication of what is to be judged as right or wrong. I'll skip the well thats why we have faith in the bible too stuff for now.

And for you tangent, I did mean the worst scenario, against you or another, I know how you said things went with you non violent encounter, however, you did get lucky and you were still in school right, regardless I mean true life threating events, perhaps weapons are even involved. Its an irrelevant question, I was just curious as to how you felt about self defense, with the possible result of someone dying or even an assailant being harmed or killed. If that was ok in terms of you idea of no acceptable violence or not.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that tangentboy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
If the danger of someone dying was there, then of course i'd react, but i'd start by being non-violent and then progress if it is inevitable, rather than flying straight in with a punch. I would never kill someone, however. In any circumstance.

I was at school at the time, but wasn't at school when it happened, I was walking home from a friends quite late at night and a guy just walked up to me and asked if I wanted to fight.

I said no, and he took it the wrong way, and hit me, and thats how it started. I was 16 at the time, he was about in his mid 20's early 30's.

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"Ég gaf ykkur von varš aš vonbrigšum.... Petta er įgętis byrjun"
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that tangentboy is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I reported it to the police, and not surprisingly, the man was a drunkard and had supposedly just come off a NHS (British National Health Service) programme to get him off Cocaine.

I was alright though, as I said, I didn't get hurt at all, and I've never seen him again.

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"Ég gaf ykkur von varš aš vonbrigšum.... Petta er įgętis byrjun"
 46yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that thoughtmanifest is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Wow that's a lot of questions. You asked me if I'm sure I knew what I desired in this? I do. I desire freedom and peae. I desire acceptance, understanding and forgiveness. I desire the courage to remain calm no matter what I'm faced with. To always have the wisdom and knowledge that all is well, that we are all one and that everyone is doing the best they can with what they have to work with. I desire enlightenment. Not just for me but for everyone.

Immortality... as an enlightened race... if we truly understood what that meant I think it would be reasonable to say why wouldn't we want that?

As far as serving god... I'm not sure what that means. I am not here to serve anyone. I try to live my life as best I can in pursuit of the above and hopefully have a positive impact on someone along the way. If that happens to coincide with what various religions state is "god's way" than so be it. If there is a god, I want it on my side.

I think of the "cancer" or the "virus" as things like disrespect, revenge, anger, hate, war. Taking the life of something for those reasons or hurting others where that is the root, not taking a life for survival. That's just part of the natural order if you will.

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"Love everyone, question everything and look up!"
"Terrorism": Does Anyone Really Understa
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