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The Meaning of Living

User Thread
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Elemental is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The Meaning of Living
Alright,
so some of you do not believe in God, some of you do not believe in free will, and some of you do not believe in a life after death.

I am wondering what values there are now. To me, I have the values of my own choices.
I believe that God did create me in some way, and that he put us all on this world for two reasons. I have read in the bible that before we came here, we were spirits and intelligences. I believe that we came here to gain a body, first of all. And also, to gain a heart, and be judged by it. Like how Adam and Eve did not know they were naked until they ate the apple. They did not have a sense of heart until then, and from that point, they could reproduce.

I believe in my free will and that I have choices to make. Things that I am supposed to think about. I have one future coming my way in a straight line of time, and I have to figure out how I want to live. Cause and effect, but I choose the cause. From that cause comes many effects and I choose but one of those effects to be another cause. Fate is what we make of ourselves.

As for live after death, I believe it does not truly matter what religion you are in, if you do what you believe is right, what you know is right, then we will see eachother again.

But my discusion is,
If you believe that there is no God, no justice to the next life, and you have no free will... what is there?

Not so much the meaning of life, but what is the meaning of living? Do you think that it is a freak accident, and if so, are you happy about being a freak accident? Do you live with it and just build off of it?
What is there to value if all of it is just a bunch of crap?
The best things of life too. OK, so they may be a little corny, but seriously, they are the very thing that makes people happy thus so the most important things in the universe:
Love, friends, family.
When you love some one, is it because the chemicals in your brain cause you to be infatuated by what your eyes are perceiving, and it is all a matter of coincidence, or do you really love some one?
When thinking about friends that you are with, let's say you have a terrible day and you want the be around them to make you happy. Is that because your brain recognizes similarities in your peer group and it responds to deciding that those individuals would be the most compatible people to be with to create enjoyment? Or are friends a matter of caring about eachother?
Is family an accident where either your soul was chosen at random to be with some undecided group of people, or you were just one of the sperm cells to make it to the egg and if you didn't, it would not matter. Either way, your family is just there like ordinary people are except you live in the same house and you have two older people buying you food and clothes because it is the law? Or is family something that supports emotionally, helping eachother stand strong.

Is there any value to love? Freinds, family?

I believe I am significant, not alone. Alone is having nothing but yourself. I am significant, as in having myself different from everything. I have more than just myself, I have a family. I have friends. I have the love of them, and I do believe in true love. I value life for the good things, not because I am alone.

I have a body, mind, soul, and heart. I am not the only thing existing in the world, and I value that.


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"Fate is the shadow cast by the light of our choice. We can change our fate by altering that light."
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
My view is that we are not a freak accident. But rather, the accident that gave birth to us was necessary.
I believe that the only universes which can effectively exist, are those with life. Those without life have nothing to experience them, nothing to think about them. They effectively do not exist as they influence no living entity.
Thus, the only thing that can make its existence felt, is a universe with life. It doesnt matter how it aquires life, in our case it seems to be an 'accident', sure but it is a necessary accident.

The emotions you describe, are in my opinion merely caused by chemicals in our brain yes. But that doesn't matter, the technical truth does not matter. What matters is what makes us happy (not to mention what lets us have functional relationships), and that means not overthinking. It means simply feeling those emotions and accepting them from others, because even though a person might love you because of chems in there brain, its still love, just as sincere.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The more I read your question the more I don't know how to answer.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Elemental is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
lol, what do you mean by not knowing how to answer my questions? I could take that several ways is all.
Still, that answer put a smile on my face when I read it.

Who cares if we have free will or if it is a brain calculation. Who cares if what we are living is actually real or not. Life is life. Just do your best to be happy in the best ways possible.

But also, still on the discussion, if the universe needed life to living things to think about it so it could exist effectively, I still think of that as a matter of religion or something.
1. That universe would be like what some people think God is, an entity who needs the living souls it creates to feel about it in order to exist.
2. The universe needing living things to think about it requires that these living things be seperate and at the same time all significantly individual. Through this, I think that we would have to have freedome to be different and feel different things about the universe.

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"Fate is the shadow cast by the light of our choice. We can change our fate by altering that light."
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"lol, what do you mean by not knowing how to answer my questions?"
Its just that, my first answer didn't seem to answer you very well, it sounded like you wanted a way to live (which I ask myself sometimes), and I didn't mention that.

My thought about the universe 'needing' us is just that without us, there is nothing. As the only thing that really 'is', is what each of us perceive. The universe might exist, but without something to feel it, it might as well not exist.
To me, there were perhaps a million universes before this one, each one with its own arbitrary laws, dimensions etc.. Until we get lucky and one which can experience itself.
The exact details of how the universes come and go is unimportant (if they do come and go), the important thing is that for something to be, something must feel it.

Thus 'anything' must be, then it must cater for our existence, whether willing or randomly.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 54yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Dreamer is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
My thought about the universe 'needing' us is just that without us, there is nothing. As the only thing that really 'is', is what each of us perceive. The universe might exist, but without something to feel it, it might as well not exist.
To me, there were perhaps a million universes before this one, each one with its own arbitrary laws, dimensions etc.. Until we get lucky and one which can experience itself.
The exact details of how the universes come and go is unimportant (if they do come and go), the important thing is that for something to be, something must feel it.

Thus 'anything' must be, then it must cater for our existence, whether willing or randomly.


The universe is not a living organization. It would not need nor care about life. It has always been and always will be.
What you should contemplate is how thin if any air exists in the universe. It is simply uninhabitable.
However, earth has gravity and oxygen, water, and every single thing we humans need. Our every need is met.

You are trying to create a Being in your universe. Because possibly you do realise we are being taken of care of. You gave an emotion to a vast empty space.

God is whom you are describing.

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"Even though is difficult, I can still dream."
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Elemental is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
OH! I get what DT is saying, at least I think I do.

The universe is not a living thing or entitiy or something. It only exists. It is just that all it does is exist as planets and such floating around with all the laws to hold it together.
What DT is saying is that if we did not exist, the universe would still be going, but nothing would be thinking about it. It is like the "I think, therefore, I am." It is there, but nothing is thinking about it because nothing is living in it.
It is a psycho thing to imagine, and even more so to explain, but I get it!

Though it seems logical to happen, maybe in another dimension, because right now, we exist.
Also, I believe that a conscious mind brings forth another. In the universe you think of, a thought can not be created out of a big bang. An intelligence can not evolve from something that does not think.


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"Fate is the shadow cast by the light of our choice. We can change our fate by altering that light."
 54yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Dreamer is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Not exactly sure what he thinks. But I replied according to what he said.
Elemental, I like your last statement.

An intelligence can not evolve from something that does not think.


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"Even though is difficult, I can still dream."
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
" It is like the "I think, therefore, I am." It is there, but nothing is thinking about it because nothing is living in it. "
Yes that shows what I'm trying to say wonderfully

"The universe is not a living organization. It would not need nor care about life. It has always been and always will be.
What you should contemplate is how thin if any air exists in the universe. It is simply uninhabitable."
I didn't say the universe had to think to cater for us. The lifelessness of most of the universe is irrelevant, there needs only be a little bit of life and experience. It is enough.

"You are trying to create a Being in your universe. Because possibly you do realise we are being taken of care of. You gave an emotion to a vast empty space."
No, we are not being taken care of. We are given enough to live during a period of time no matter how short. This is not the unverse's will, it is simply that all universes that don't (by accident most likely) cater for life don't exist.
They don't effectively exist because, without a life to experience it, it effects no entiity.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 54yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Dreamer is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Thus 'anything' must be, then it must cater for our existence, whether willing or randomly


So, which is it?

quote:
No, we are not being taken care of.


I ask, because I do not think you are sure what you are saying or thinking.

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"Even though is difficult, I can still dream."
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Probably randomly, as there is no reason to believe the universe would 'will' anything, our universe seems very much inert apart from ourselves.

"I ask, because I do not think you are sure what you are saying or thinking."
Well please enlighten me. I think I have shown fairly well how for something to 'exist' something must think about it.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Elemental is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"I think I have shown fairly well how for something to 'exist' something must think about it."

That is where God comes into play.
From your statement comes two possibilities:

1. That nothing at all exists because for there to be something that exists now, something must have thought about it. Where did the first existence come from then to think about the rest?

2. Something has always existed with no beginning to it, and that thought that created all things is known as God.

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"Fate is the shadow cast by the light of our choice. We can change our fate by altering that light."
 54yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Dreamer is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Kudos Elemental.



quote:
Probably randomly, as there is no reason to believe the universe would 'will' anything, our universe seems very much inert apart from ourselves.

"I ask, because I do not think you are sure what you are saying or thinking."
Well please enlighten me. I think I have shown fairly well how for something to 'exist' something must think about it.


You just answered that God exists. If you did not realise that, then it is subconscious.
It just goes to show, He lives within you. There is no other explanation, Than that of His existence.

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"Even though is difficult, I can still dream."
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"1. That nothing at all exists because for there to be something that exists now, something must have thought about it. Where did the first existence come from then to think about the rest?"
No you've got it backward. Its not that someone thinks about something else and pam makes it exist.
Its more of a condition. The universe must affect, be thought about, be experienced by a conscious being for it to exist.

Our universe does that by thinking about itself. It thinks about itself and feels itself by making us, we are part of the universe after all.

That's why our universe can harbour life, all the ones who cannot harbour life cannot be felt or thought by anything, and thus don't exist.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Elemental is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"Its more of a condition. The universe must affect, be thought about, be experienced by a conscious being for it to exist. "

I can understand what you are saying here, until:

"Our universe does that by thinking about itself. It thinks about itself and feels itself by making us, we are part of the universe after all. "

You say that and you make like the univese is a person again, like God or whatever.

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"Fate is the shadow cast by the light of our choice. We can change our fate by altering that light."
The Meaning of Living
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