All idiots are ignorant, but not all ignorant people are idiots - Markh
Captain Cynic Guides
Administrative Contact
Talk Talk
Philosophy Forum
Religion Forum
Psychology Forum
Science & Technology Forum
Politics & Current Events Forum
Health & Wellness Forum
Sexuality & Intimacy Forum
Product Reviews
Stories & Poetry Forum
Art Forum
Movie/TV Reviews
Jokes & Games
Photos, Videos & Music Forum

If your a clone do you have a soul?

User Thread
 40yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that dr. suess is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
If your a clone do you have a soul?
i havealways wondered this. i have no idea how to open this so please just tell me what you feel about this question.

| Permalink
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Your clone have as much soul as any other human being.
No reason for it to be otherwise. That is, unless some divine being is the source of the soul, in which case the discussion is very subjective and completely dependent upon personal beliefs.
The trouble with any debate revolving around the soul, is that it is completely transcendental, there can be no experimention, no observation. Any discussion is thus going to be very theoretical and very arbitrary.

| Permalink
"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 67yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Tough question? Hmm . . . Jeudo-Christian belief is that although animals have a spirit, they do not have a soul (?). So unless they have gone cloning animals, we can't say what human cloning will result in on one hand. On the other if only man has a soul then I would tend to see GOD the giver of life as giving the soul as well. Soul being the image of GOD in man.
Not being well versed in cloning I have questions about the extent the reflective nature of cloning produces. Biological use of enzenes to process and control activities raises the question as to how far down into these systems does this reversal go? To extend it into the spiritual aspect, well this has been a rather neglected area of study by science?


| Permalink
"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"To extend it into the spiritual aspect, well this has been a rather neglected area of study by science? "
I'm not sure if the study has been no neglected, but rather, the study is virtually impossible. The spirit is completely transcendental and has no basis in reality (if it does, we don't call it spirit we call it a part of the brain).

"On the other if only man has a soul then I would tend to see GOD the giver of life as giving the soul as well. Soul being the image of GOD in man."
Whether a being is born through a spermatozoid and ovule or through the electric zap of cloning, these births are from a scientific standpoint just chemical reactions and the begining of replication.
They aren't differentiable to the scientist, so cloning (to science) is as much creation of life by man as say in vitro fertilization is creation of life by man.

Since these are not differentiable, it is my belief that the only thing man control in the birth of a being, is the time. The time of birth (birth as in begining of replication, not birth of baby) is something we have always controlled to an extent anyway. So there is no real ethical question for me, or any spiritual difference between cloning and fertilization.

| Permalink
"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 40yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that dr. suess is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
these are good replies, so let me add to the question. if god does not create something i.e. a clone, is it recognized. or is simply being part of this earth good enough.

| Permalink
 67yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
if god does not create something i.e. a clone, is it recognized. or is simply being part of this earth good enough.

I am not sure what the question asks? Thus far Decius & I seem to define spirit & soul similarly yet inverted orginization. I attribute to spirit that which Decius attribute to soul, so it shouldn't come a surprise that early on I had reversed these aspects from traditional thought. My studies lead me to this conclusion based on the oneness with all things of spirit not so much because I disagree rather I am certain of this aspect of spirit but have not extended to the soul.
This is a tentative defining aspect as we are hard put to define spirit, let alone going as far as differentiation between soul & spirit. Somewhat like trying to relate the nuclear particles from atomic particles based soul-ly upon Newtonian Physics.
quote:
births are from a scientific standpoint just chemical reactions and the begining of replication.

Does procreation equate to creation?
I seem to remember an experiment in which elemental substances contained in an environment thought to be those of early earth's conditions to see if they would produce life. Although the experiment produced a living organism in one sample, the experiment felled to be reproduceable, a necessary attribute for acceptance in scientific theory & suspect of contamination.
You could say man-made elements of the periodic table represent Man's Creation of physical matter but these elements decompose into more functional natural existing elements And where constructed from existing matter. I tend to make a distinction between creation and composing in that sense. So man's creation of chemical compounds which are non eixstant in nature is not equivalent to creation of the universe.

| Permalink
"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
[  Edited by cturtle at   ]
 36yrs • M •
zerokool is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
A clone is an exact copy of the person who is getting cloned so I think it would a soul.

| Permalink
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Its an exact genetic copy. The clone has as much soul as for example, a twin.

| Permalink
"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Windupnostril is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
have you ever seen that movie multipicity? very funny, but that is beside the point. there is a part of the movie that kind of blew me away when i watched it and i want to know what you think:
the main character went to the geneticist to get the clone made of himself, and the geneticist had to put him to sleep to do it. when he awoke, he says something like, "So, where is it? where's the clone?" then the doctor says, "Youre the clone." So the clone had to live out in the shed while the real him lived inside his house and got to keep the wife and what-not.
the whole concept of going in to create a clone and then in a sense "becoming" the clone was very interesting to me. i suppose it has to do with memory, because the clone and the original will have identical memories and at the point of awakening pretty close to the exact states of mind, until their different experiences begin to alter them to be different. so, at one point, one brief moment, their brain-states are exactly the same, a feat that basically impossible to duplicate in any scenario but this. the clone remembers being the original, but sadly is not. luckily for the original, he stayed who he was. its a kind of weird scenario, isn't it? to sort of "become" someone else. again, the clone essentially was born with the same memory as the original, so though he never did any of the things he thought he had previously, he had the illusion of them in his memory. i think that this is wrong, because it is sort of like the ultimate lie to a person.
if you ever go to get a clone made of yourself someday, you should probably remember before you go in that you may just wake up the clone, and be in a world of trouble.

| Permalink
"You are reading this."
 67yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
the clone essentially was born with the same memory as the original,
Windupnostr, do clone sheep come out as fully grown sheep? If they clone a chimp that has been taught to play dead on cue would the clone know to do the same thing?
quote:
The clone has as much soul as for example, a twin.
I have some relatives who are (were) twins. I mean they looked the same, they sounded the same, they easily played tricks on others because they were so alike, of course as they grew older (30 ish) one had put on more weight, etc.
But as similar as they were, one had a learning disability where he tended to transpose letters & numerical order. Therefore I don't think that they shared a common soul but rather each has a distinct soul.

| Permalink
"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
 33yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that [MiA] is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
well if you think logically
an exact copy of something with a soul has to have a soul ...... that's the simplest way of putting it
i dunno too many clones
and i don't even know what exactly clones are and if they differ from the original somehow .... so i can't really judge
but if someone explaines what exactly clones are i'll be thankful

| Permalink
"The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care .... right ?"
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Windupnostril is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
i was speaking hypothetically, not referring to how cloning is currently done. however, if, hypothetically, in the far future, they are able to duplicate memory and implant it into a clone then my problem still stands. anyway, this whole thing is hypothetical, a thought scenario.
also, i am aware that clones do not come out full-grown, but this is again hypothetical.

| Permalink
"You are reading this."
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
" Therefore I don't think that they shared a common soul but rather each has a distinct soul. "
I agree. I meant that if clones don't have souls then some twins can't have souls.

| Permalink
"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 33yrs • M •
Self-Examiner is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
what scares me about cloning is the fact that the clone would have no idea that he was a clone and all his experiences were false memories. This leads me to think that if the clone can think that ,then it is possible that my memories are false and i could have false consciousness. The only way that a clone knows that its a clone is if it's told, how do we know that we are not just clones who haven't been told?

| Permalink
""Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself. " Harvey Fierstein"
 36yrs • M •
zerokool is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Twins are a different concept than clones, twins have an individual personality and mentality, a clone is exactly the same as the person who he got cloned, and shares the same genetic factors and the same mental factors, including memory, and if a clone didn't know that it got cloned it wouldn't no if it had a soul or not.

this is to you DumbTeen.

| Permalink
If your a clone do you have a soul?
  1    2    3  
About Captain Cynic
Common FAQ's
Captain Cynic Guides
Contact Us
Terms of Use
Privacy Policy
General Forum Rules
Cynic Trust Levels
Administrative Contact Forum
Registration
Lost Password
General Discussion
Philosophy Forums
Psychology Forums
Health Forums
Quote Submissions
Promotions & Links
 Captain Cynic on Facebook
 Captain Cynic on Twitter
 Captain Cynic RSS Feed
 Daily Tasker
Copyright © 2011 Captain Cynic All Rights Reserved.   Terms of Use   Privacy Policy