If there's a god, why is there evil?

Mr. Humble - that is a whole new debate - I would create a new thread for that one.

Concerning this right and wrong thing - My point of view has changed during my years on this earth, I imagine it will change some more : )

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

that link about aleins and their existance in EARTH IS THE BIGGEST BUNCH OF CRAP i have evry read. who ever wrote this needs tobe shot, brought back to life and shot again. it is so far fetched and backed by the most fucked up quotes ever

Ha! You know what is funny? I just now read some of the earlier posts (pg. 2 or 3) and realised that God *did* make us perfect (Adam and Eve) but we screwed it up because we were'nt content with everything perfect, we thought there was more to it. That is, after all, what the serpent promised eve with the forbiden fruit "the knowledge of God".

""How do you know we exist? Maybe we don't exist." -Vivi FF9"

They weren't perfect.. they were stupid, do you think that is being perfect?

"If the opposite of Pro is Con, then is the opposite of Progress, Congress?"

Hmf! Well, according to the bible, Adam was created in the image of God and *was* perfect. After he sined he became imperfect. And besides, wouldn't you like to know what God knows? That is what was promised to him with the fruit. Also I'm sure that Adam and Eve were pretty guillible because they had not experienced deciet before that time. Hmm...

""How do you know we exist? Maybe we don't exist." -Vivi FF9"

if you think about it there is no right or wrong beacus rite an wrong are all prespectives on what your doin ex: the notzies though they wer doing the ight thing,9/11 they thought they wer doing the right thing so write and wrong are mearly whatever you whant to belive it is so there is no bad or good beacus in there eyes there both good and both bad beacusthey see no wrong in what thier doing and wll thats it...

I still think this is the wrong thread - but ok - this is what I think.

I used to believe that good and evil, right and wrong, etc,. was just simply a matter of understanding and missunderstanding. In my younger days, I've written a poem that demonstrates this.

However - I have since changed my mind on this. When we don't understand something. We have a tendancy to simplify it into terms we can understand. Thats ok - but we really do ourselves a deserves when we are convinced that this is true. When in fact it is just simplifieing something we don't understand.

I do believe there is an EVIL. Don't know what it is. I think a scientific study would be in order, and it would take just that to understand it. What evil does is destroy that which is good.

What is right or good. Life, happiness, freedom, etc. But you see it does get confusing. To be life, there must be death. To be happy, one must remorse, etc. So neither of these two are right or wrong - its the creation. If it works, it must be right, if it fails it must be wrong.

If this confuses you - Well - It confuses me. It is easy to discribe what looks like good and evil. But looks are decieving - I don't think we can really see it. I've written a very long poem, I'll share it with you.

I FEEL SOMETHING OUT THERE

I stand my Forward Lookout
There is nothing I can see
But I feel there's something out there
That simply cannot be
To that of which I feel
I wonder what I would see

Bridge to Forward Lookout
Bridge aye
Surface contact, relative bearing zero one zero
Bridge aye

Bridge to Combat
Bridge aye
We hold no surface contacts on radar
Bridge aye

Sir, Forward Lookout reports a surface contact relative bearing zero one zero
Combat holds no surface contacts on radar

Very well

Boatswain, Call the senior ET to the bridge

Bridge to Combat
Bridge aye
Radar checks clear holding no surface contacts
Bridge aye

I stand my Forward Lookout
There is nothing I can see
But I feel there's something out there
That simply cannot be
To that of which I feel
I wonder what I could see

Sir, Combat reports radar is up, holding no surface contacts

That's impossible!
I can see there's something out there with my own two eyes
My God, It's some kind of animal
Boatswain, Call the captain to the bridge

Bridge to After Lookout
Bridge aye
I think I've spotted a flare at one seven five
Bridge aye

Sir, After Lookout reports a flare at one seven five

Very Well
Ask Combat if we have any subs out there

I stand my Forward Lookout
There is nothing I can see
But I feel there's something out there
That simply cannot be
To that of which I feel
I wonder what I would see

Captains on the Bridge

Sir, We have some strange thing out there bearing zero one zero
It doesn't show-up on radar,
and it appears to be coming at us

This is the Captain
I have the deck and the con
Helmsman
Right full rudder

Right full rudder aye sir
Rudder is right full

Very will, Steady on one six zero

Steady on one six zero aye sir

Sir, Combat reports having no knowledge of any subs

When is the last time we've talked to the carrier?

Bridge to Forward Lookout
Bridge aye
That strange animal, it's following us around
Keeping dead-a-head

Sir, Forward Lookout reports that
that previously reported contact
is following us around
keeping dead-a-head

That's impossible
Nothing can move that fast
Quartermaster
I DON'T want this in the log

Boatswain, Set general quarters

Aye sir

This is not a drill, this is not a drill
General quarters, general quarters
All hands man your battle stations
This is not a drill, this is not a drill
General quarters, general quarters
All hands man your battle stations

I stand my Forward Lookout
There is nothing I can see
But I feel there's something out there
That simply cannot be
To that of which I feel
I wonder what I could see

Bridge to After Lookout
Bridge aye
That flare I reported
it looks like a woman,
and she's coming up our port side,
with a sword in her hand
Bridge aye

Sir, After Lookout reports

That's okay young man
I see it
It looks like she's going to fight this thing

Lee Helmsman, Go to all stop

All stop aye sir, Engine room indicates all engines stop

Very well, Boatswain
I want the chaplain on the bridge
On the double

Aye sir

I stand my Forward Lookout
There is nothing I can see
But I feel there's something out there
That simply cannot be
To that of which I feel
I wonder what I would see

It all of a sudden becomes impossible to speak
Everything is silent
Yet the wind indicator indicates a 75 knot wind
The sea turns harsh
And a voice thunders
I have created all things
All things have a purpose
Force against force
They complement each other,
Though you do not know the reason
I assure you it is my creation
Both good and evil, their struggle causes the storm
Do not be afraid
but have faith
From such were you created
Till all end is complete

We then hear the wind
and discover we can speak again

The creature struggles to get at us
The lady blocks its way
The lady and creature fight
The thrashing about causes great waves to erupt
To prevent us from taking heavy roles
The captain orders the Lee Helmsman
Engines back one third

The wind dies down
A fog bank rolls in
As the water turns calm
We can no longer see the fighting going on
Captain orders all engines stop
The sun comes out
Everything is clear
All around us
No contacts visible

Boatswain, Set the normal underway watch and pipe all hands for me to speak

Aye sir

This is your captain speaking
I don't kow what happened out there
I don't think anybody will believe this
It might be best to keep this to ourselves
I think it would be appropriate if we all kept silent
While the chaplain says a prayer

I stand my Forward Lookout
There is nothing I can see
But I feel there's something out there
That simply cannot be
To that of which I feel
I wonder what I could see

By: Roger Harkness

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

God allows certain things to happen to test us for the next life. Your life, your choices, your paths are already known by Him before you were born. That's why there's poverty and wealth. Ever hear of predestiny or fate? It's there.

Why test us if he know?

"I like maxims that don't encourage behaviour modification"

The reason he tests us is so that we can be like Him. We are far from his perfect image. He made us in his image but man brought sin into this world, so we are far from perfect in God's eye.

I don't understand why an entity who is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent would need to test anything. Any of it's creations would be perfect in one pass. But clearly this isn't the case in this universe. I also don't understand why many comments in here state there can be no good without evil. Of course there can be! I cannot think of any sound reason why there can be 100% of anything while the opposite is absolutely absent. I think in both matters the reactions have emerged from conditioned minds. All society does at every instant life begins is to condition it. We are in bad universe with an increasing amount of evil and a decreasing amount of good, which is contradictory to any god who cares for his or her creation. I guess I don't understand where people dig up valid arguments to sustain the concept of god. Perhaps in a 1000 years from now (if man hasn't removed himself from space and time by then) this generation will be referred to as ignorant .... whatever. Not any qualification that justifies the self proclaimed characteization of intelligent life; this would require quite less contradictory statements and much more sound reason than seen in life and in this discussion.

"We are all blind to what exists outside the scope of our awareness"

Rage. I do not believe the world is getting worse. It is only changing. If you study history, you will be reminded of the many horrors that once existed on our earth. And ofcourse if you look at today. You will see those horrors have been beaton and our children will not have to deal with them. However, what you will also see is new kinds of evil, often unimaginable. But we can't let ourselves believe that world is getting worse, it is only changing.

A seed is but a seed. If you put it away, it will continue to be just a seed until it finally rots away. But if you plant it in the ground, it will grow and produce more seeds. That is the reason for change, and sometimes that change is not nice, but the end is more perfect.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

I have a response for the question "Why do you all think there has to be evil along with the good?" The reason is, how would you know *how* good something is unless there is an equally evil counterpart? ex. Picking up a person who was pushed over = good. Pushing someone over = bad. How could you pick the person up if they were not pushed down?

""How do you know we exist? Maybe we don't exist." -Vivi FF9"

okcity kid: I think it is indeed a change. Change is inevitable in a space / time continuum. It implies nevertheless that evil can increase at the expense of good onto the most extreme. our location in space and time is an accident of life; had we been born as a fifth generation in a refugee camp saturated with violence and hate or if we were 'drafted' by warlords as kid-soldiers, being forced to kill a brother before the eyes of our mother, cook him and eat him afterward to set an example to those who share this horrid fate, we'd probably be thinking rather different than we do now. But an endless array of change life indeed is if you look at it this way.

Mr. Humble: Perhaps wondering why the person was pushed down in the first place would bestow a more clear view to assess the good and evil in the situation.

mis_girl: Why would a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent entity create something far from perfect? I don't get this: A good architect would not make a house that would collapse when a door is slammed. If an absolutely perfect entity would create something far from perfect just to test it and see where it ends, I for sure will never worship or even respect it, because I think this is a game beyond perversity.

"We are all blind to what exists outside the scope of our awareness"

Rage - Before I was born 6 million jews were put to death. That has not happened in my life time - I can logically say that this world has improved. Vietnam is over, black people don't have to sit at the back of the bus, and a woman can find a job just as easily as a man can now. Don't tell me I don't see evil just because that is the only thing you will concentrate on. Rage - you cannot see goodness in this world. There was a recent story in UUA about a man who gave up his multimillion dollar inheretance to donations. Schindlers List. Me and my wife watched it last night. A man who made a fortune and gave it away to save as many Jews as he could. 1100 he saved. You can see evil, I can see more than that. Mother Theresa, Ghandi, Confucious and others.

Some see a glass half full - and you Rage see it half empty. Your reality is not my reality (thank God).

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."