The Problem of Evil - Page 2

Sorry, we either do not have free will, or do not have a divine plan.

I got lost in the intricacies of the philosophy.

Because if we have free will, then there can be no divine plan. Gosh, maybe it's too early for philosophy this morning.

that is legitimate. i, myself, happen to like it.

i have an extensive "religious" past. i do not adhere to it, but i still have that knowledge in my memory. at least some of it

now- what "they would say"

there is scripture that refers to all men being destined to do certain things. ultimately, they make the choice to follow along set path...
i am not quite sure how his will that "none should perish, but all have eternal life" plays into that however/


of course that's where they pipe in and refer to the inability of man to understand the perfect will of god... or something along those lines


a question of mine concerning god in the bible.

I know it states that God is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.

What else does it say- he does/is?

Interesting question?

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God is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.

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Is the alpha/omega GOD or His Christ?

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What else does it say- he does/is?

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God created the (this?) world (existence).
Creation contains a garden in which are two trees, these particular trees bear fruit of life & knowing.Of all the beast of the world (earth) only one is given the ability of choice, man (mankind). Mankind is told that if they eat the fruit of knowledge then they will die.
Mankind being having rebellious spirit, eats the fruit.
Man (kind) doesn't die, nor does man obtain knownledge {the wisdom of God?} therefore either God lied or God is a lie?

God is Good therefore if God lied then God is not good.
If God is not Good then God is not God therefore God is a lie?
Of course this just a fairy tale but if the fruit of knowledge gave the capacity of obtainning wisdom then would the fruit of life give the capacity to obtain life?

A problem with evil often tends to be that since that which is "good and right" can't seem to make a good enough argument to convince all of its "obvious truth", the self proclaimed righteous somehow always turn to the notion that force and negativity are the solution.

Cturtle: It would seem that God either should have made humans wise or not wise without the capacity to change if God knew that change would yield evil. It also seems that God made humans just wise enough to be tempted, and that God was either powerless to prevent them from being tempted, did not know that they would be tempted, or chose not to prevent them from being tempted. If any of these are the case, then evil cannot be the result of free will, as so many assert, but results either from God's lack of omnipotence, lack of omniscience, lack of moral perfection, or lack of human free will.

However, God can be God and not be good if you admit that he has the ability to do good and evil. God would not be a lie, only one that has created a world with evil in it if God exists at all.

If there was no evil, how could there be good?

If evil yields good, then evil is itself good. So, if abortion somehow yields good, then, by God, we should kill more babies. Now, there are evils that the world never knows about, like babies that are killed that the media never finds out about. The world does not get outraged by the death of the babies, so no good comes of their death. It is rather anonymous. No good, therefore, comes from anonymous evil.

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Cturtle: It would seem that God either should have made humans wise or not wise without the capacity to change if God knew that change would yield evil.

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I see that being covered in the biblical implications of ' the heavenly host and those beings ejected from that place?

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It also seems that God made humans just wise enough to be tempted, and that God was either powerless to prevent them from being tempted, did not know that they would be tempted, or chose not to prevent them from being tempted.

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Lived on a retreat once, some people came to have a wedding ceremony as part of the ceremony they bought & released a pair of white doves. Later I found that one dove had fallen prey to some animal, the other was in bad shape, weak & hungry, the only life they had known was in a cage.
Caught the surviving dove, cared & fed it. I didn't want to make it my pet so I would take it out to feed it allowing freedom. Time passed the bird's wings became stronger & soon it was quite able to fly. I continued to feed & shelter it but when I went out to feed it, I would spread feed around.
Sure enough other wild birds would come to feed there too.
At first, he would fly at the others to drive them off (my presence being a factor) but after while he accepted them. He seeming to take the lead, his presence giving security to their feeding. I enjoyed his presence but he never seemed to accept that I would rather he stayed on his side of the cabin.
I certainly didn't like his bird dropping on my stereo & such.
Missed him when he flew away but I didn't miss the mess he made.

So, it seems to make sense that if it is possible for God to make beings that are free of mental and physical anguish in heaven, then it should have been possible for God to make humans free of mental and physical anguish as well here on earth. Again, was God powerless to do so, lacked the foresight to see that his creation would generate mental and physical anguish, or chose to create the world with such anguish in it? I see no feasible reason why evil must exist.

Keep in mind of what you may make assumptions of as evil. But pain and anguish are survival tools, meant to keep people active and providing or managing, and to keep people from doing things that are dangerous to them.

If god existed as the idealistic version it would seem these thiings wouldn't exist, unless god is just ok with suffering.

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So, it seems to make sense that if it is possible for God to make beings that are free of mental and physical anguish in heaven, then it should have been possible for God to make humans free of mental and physical anguish as well here on earth.

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Q: "Again, was God powerless to do so"
my ?'able conclusion: He did both in the beginning/

Q: "lacked the foresight to see that his creation would generate mental and physical anguish"
" " : "do not eat the fruit of the tree... for if you do, you will surely die..."

Q: "or chose to create the world with such anguish in it?"
" " : their choice of acting on desire directly in defiance with God allowed this "anguish"/disobedience?

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I see no feasible reason why evil must exist.

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it is ultimately wrong for evil to exist. that is why evil (or sin) can't exist in heaven (where there is no evil?)....

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it is possible for God to make beings that are free of mental and physical anguish in heaven,

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satan (because of his hatred of God's delight in mankind) after being "cast out of heaven" continued to defy God and his creation by turning said creation against its Creator?
that is why God wins and satan loses? they both know this?
and sin, or defiance of God, has no feasible reason for existence, like you said.
feasible---
1 : capable of being done or carried out <a feasible plan>
2 : capable of being used or dealt with successfully : SUITABLE
3 : REASONABLE, LIKELY

choice invited "evil" into human existence, choice continues to extend this invitation?

what is being invited is the disobedience of God? extended to us, through seemingly harmless "feelings", as desire to act upon that thought (even in some cases, the thought itself)? conscious of the thought, but not conscious of the source?

freedom to choose whichever force to listen to when deciding upon actions/speech/whatever?

force---1 a (1) : strength or energy exerted or brought to bear : cause of motion or change : active power <the forces of nature> <the motivating force in her life>moral or mental strength c : capacity to persuade or convince <the force of the argument>

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If god existed as the idealistic version it would seem these thiings wouldn't exist, unless god is just ok with suffering.

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he is ok with you experiencing it if you are?
as for those who want to "get to heaven"... are they required to "do what he says" in order to get where he is?

You guys ever think about what it would mean to tell the only two people who ever existed up to that point that if they eat an apple they will die?

They can have no idea what death is. Nor understand such concepts as consequences. This is but one of many fundamental flaws in the logic of the bible.

Isn't it convienient how God doesn't even have to take responsibility for his actions or creations. No wonder they idolize him.