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In any Spiritual Text is there a way to give up Free Will?

User Thread
 34yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that VirtualVampire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
In any Spiritual Text is there a way to give up Free Will?
I am listening to the Bhagavad Gita, I have read the Bible, I've browsed the Quran.

Just about every spiritual text talks about either worshiping god in full love, being a full devotee, or sacrificing ones on self will to please god and to be with god, and the because of free will we have left god, and now we are struggling to get back, and only those who love god will reach god while others my take million of lifetimes, or one may never reach god at all.

Then other texts say you need gods grace in order to achieve anything but God has to give it to you. So in my mind being a human is like having a disease, and only god can cure it but only if you truly love god.

My question is why not give up free will? Because without freewill one can never doubt, sin, or forget what one is told to do.

It may mean becoming a like robot, but isnt better to be a robot, and live with god, than to be human and not be near god?

Please don't take these words lightly, but I have to be honest to what is in my heart, I can't fully love or worship god, he, she, or whatever it is. I am in a human body, that has it own needs and desires. And even my own spirit has a will of it own and from what I'm reading God has made it so.

I read that God is perfect and can never be wrong, but has God himself ever been unsure, has God ever known fear of being human, and can God ever understand what it is like to be fully human, I'm not talking about a Jesus/ Krishna born in human body knowing they're already God, I'm talking about God becoming fully human without knowledge of its former self.

That being said In any Spiritual Text is there a way to give up Free Will in order to be with god and isn't that alone good enough for god?

I do think there a life forms in this universe god has created, that exist independently of free will, like the Auphanim: whriling Forces, or the Aralam: strong and mighty ones, the Chassmalim: Brilliant Ones, or the Serphims the flaming ones,,or the Chaioth Ha- Qadesh Holy Spirits. (I may be wrong)

Its true that you wouldn't experience joy,or pleasure that come from free will, but you neither know pain or suffering, regret, torment, fear, betrayal, failure, hatred, and how can you miss anything if you don't have a consciousnesses to realize that you have no consciousness?

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"I do mind being human...for now."
 48yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Adam Seth God is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Hey Vamp....

Well... as I have come to grasp... the Free Will of Humanity is the actual difference that God Makes between mankind and all other of the Creation... it is sooooooo important in fact it is the jist and purpose of religion and religiosity

Example

In the
Quran... Man is called by the Revelator "Khalifa"... an Arabic term you'll find in America... as in California....

Khalifa is a second
a Vice-gerant or second in command

In the Creation story of the Quran, Adam and Eve are placed as "Khalifa" which by definition is:

"One who sits in the place of the Supreme when the Supreme is not present ..."

or generally a ruler...

In the Bible, Adamic Man is termed to be in the Image of God

Image is a likeness
a copy
or a doppelganger... a mirror reflection..

No where in the Gita will anybody find the limitations of the Supreme... The Supreme is Everpresent, all pervasive and dominant in every way.. that is to say

The Supreme being is always represented as a Presence that overwhelms all other Pressence... my pressence will not be superior...

by definition.... the supreme Pervades All... and is supreme in pressence... there fore must be the dominant pressence

whenever some one or thing is present, there should be the recognition of that which is the most present.... the Supreme...

So no where in the texts do we find Man to be represented as anything less than independent...

and at the Extreme examples, we find Humanity to be Submersed in a Supreme and overwhelming pressence

which rules

so that my own pressence is as nothing by comparisson

So my answer is
quote:
No... Giving up Free Will is not an Option.... whether you consider yourself the one who sits in the throne in the Absence of God,

as a Muslim should by definition

Or if you consider youself the doppelganger, copy, second self and in the IMAGE of the God... therefore as directly related a potential development like Jesus or any enlightend one

Or if you take the obvious and most constructive consideration....
where you are Completely Immersed and consumed and ruled by the Supreme One's Infinite Pressence... and must indeed be the same as Her...


The End Game seems like to be obvious, non mysterious

Given an infinite Universe, every point within that Universe is the Center of the Universe...

I speak the truth to God... because no falsehood can exist in Her Pressence....

I Humbly approach you, because none can come to God except as a servant..

Now if we each did that for Each Other God .... human .... any of the ones we met.... well, can't act like God when I'm serving God can I?

there's a society
and the basis of it doesn't correlate to anything going on currently...

doesn't mean I began anything new.... I'm just keying off your impetus

your intelligencia... which to me is God Manifest... then again I come from a Matriarchal society...

and I've been trained to bring in a new system of Self Correction, leading towards stage after stage, of eventual perfection...

to be sure


I of a Necessity, cannot envision a human limitation without resolution...
difficulty factors prevail against our own weakness, and inabilities...
unlike some...

I don't go around pretending that I cannot...
like some dangling participle... or like an open ended query... which has the main point of drawing another out towards me in dialogue...
with the only purpose being to deject them, and tell them they are inherently

"UNABLE"

What a crock... to pretend to know anything beyond the basics... yet always vasilate, or hem and haw... ride the fence with indecisions... weak logic that has no line to it

non linear... un directed... I would never even begin to answer you

unless I had one..

let it marinate... whatever is not obvious will definately MAKE itself apparent...

as I said ... only TRUTH can exist in the pressence of God

Most have no control of their Self Accusing Spirit... so they go ahead and fall to DECEPTIVE INTELLIGENCE

beware false appearences
but hey...

Just start where you are

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"\\\"The Empty Vessel Makes The Most Noise\\\" - Shakespear"
 31yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that her is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
To find a text which shows you how to give up free will is really finding a text to change your own nature.
From an Islamic perspective having free will is the most valued thing about humans. In the Quran Iblis (the devil) was a jinn but he worshiped with the angels because he was so pious. Allah made Man and asked the angels to bow to him, because of his ability to learn, and develop of his own accord. Iblis, who was the only one with free will, (the angels do not have any), refused. So Allah cast him out... etc etc. In the Quran there is no praise for the angels that they bowed to Adam. It only talks of Gods anger to Iblis that he was so arrogant as to disobey him. It may be that our lives would be simpler and we would have less suffering, and most of all no accountability for our actions, however how could anybody praise it? We might as well be programmed robots, but that we have free will is what makes us who we are.
It may be better to be like a robot and live near God but that option is not even open to us. You cannot become a water demon any sooner.

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"I have nothing to be proud of today but hopefully tomorrow I will."
 48yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Adam Seth God is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I Am Me You We

Iameyouwe

I am basically what you think of me

And I'm only going to treat you as highly as I think of myself

Together We Are...

In more than one sense we are all one at once...

this is also something I believe, that I also know offends no God or God of Gods...

After the stages of Shock... if we are successful
and complete them thouroughly

an individual that reaches Acceptence...
when we are talking about the shock of enlightenment...

THAT acceptence removes any angst or misunderstandings

However, one can no sooner return the petal to the flower once it falls, than to fall back asleep once awakened by the enlightening forces

Let others fail you, but don't fail yourself....
of course

You may of a sudden become a "Passerby"
whereas the uninitiated will assume a lack of passion or something they can equate it to

The universe is a circle... anything we put out there returns in time... ask it and see... without prayer or a special code word or dance

just be intentional

intend it firmly

then never deny yourself after that... we pay for what we ask for
others pay for what they ask of us... careful with your thoughts

and.....

payment is due, even ignorance demands its pay
payment is commensurate to the size of the intention

careful with your thoughts....

yes, even a spiritual or mental adept, will still need to understand after enlightenment has come...

the understandings just come quicker and quicker

you know

paz

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"\\\"The Empty Vessel Makes The Most Noise\\\" - Shakespear"
 34yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that VirtualVampire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.

her
quote:
To find a text which shows you how to give up free will is really finding a text to change your own nature.
From an Islamic perspective having free will is the most valued thing about humans. In the Quran Iblis (the devil) was a jinn but he worshiped with the angels because he was so pious. Allah made Man and asked the angels to bow to him, because of his ability to learn, and develop of his own accord. Iblis, who was the only one with free will, (the angels do not have any), refused. So Allah cast him out... etc etc. In the Quran there is no praise for the angels that they bowed to Adam. It only talks of Gods anger to Iblis that he was so arrogant as to disobey him. It may be that our lives would be simpler and we would have less suffering, and most of all no accountability for our actions, however how could anybody praise it? We might as well be programmed robots, but that we have free will is what makes us who we are.
It may be better to be like a robot and live near God but that option is not even open to us. You cannot become a water demon any sooner.


her u bring up a point which I asked in another forum

There are life forms in this universe god has created, that exist independently of free will, like the Auphanim: whriling Forces, or the Aralam: strong and mighty ones, the Chassmalim: Brilliant Ones, or the Serphims the flaming ones,,or the Chaioth Ha- Qadesh Holy Spirits.

Certain angels have no free will of their own but it is stated that they always praise god, and fulfill god's will. So their purpose is never doubted, no doubt or confusion can ever arrive in their mind..

Its true that you wouldn't experience joy,or pleasure that come from free will, but you neither know pain or suffering, regret, torment, fear, betrayal, failure, hatred, and how can you miss anything if you don't have a consciousnesses to realize that you have no consciousness?


Adam Seth God
quote:
I Am Me You We

Iameyouwe

I am basically what you think of me

And I'm only going to treat you as highly as I think of myself

Together We Are...

In more than one sense we are all one at once...

this is also something I believe, that I also know offends no God or God of Gods...






The universe is a circle... anything we put out there returns in time... ask it and see... without prayer or a special code word or dance

just be intentional

intend it firmly

then never deny yourself after that... we pay for what we ask for
others pay for what they ask of us... careful with your thoughts

and.....

payment is due, even ignorance demands its pay
payment is commensurate to the size of the intention

careful with your thoughts....

yes, even a spiritual or mental adept, will still need to understand after enlightenment has come...

the understandings just come quicker and quicker

you know




I wish I could understand your word clearly, your style of writing is confusing to me. Alas forgive could you explain your words to me in a more concise way. I do not mean to offend but It hard to collect my thoughts and respond to you.

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"I do mind being human...for now."
In any Spiritual Text is there a way to give up Free Will?
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