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What is effective communication? - Page 2

User Thread
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Chained Wings is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I agree with what you are saying here. Maybe I haven't been clear about that but what you have said makes allot of sense and I can now see what you were trying to say from the start.

I have a few questions that came up when reading this as a result of my curiosity.

quote:
It therefore suggests that one possible motive is that he dislikes my ability to catch him in his lies, and makes him doubt his ability to lie and manipulate people. If he therefore proves his ability to trick me, it makes him feel more powerful and successful in his ability to lie and manipulate people. Since I am very blunt about my critiques in this regard, he can almost use me as a teaching tool - because if he fails to trick me, there's something to learn. So he tries over and over, tweaking his skills.




Could it be possible that he may actually LIKE this instead of disliking it. That it is almost sort of game to him? I mean there is the reward of having "pulled one over on you" if he does succeed. And because its so had to accomplish, if he does actually achieve it it is a very strong emotional reward. I think that he looks up to you and probably sees you as the smartest guy he knows. And one way to feel smart also, is to outsmart you when he socializes with you.

I also think that subconsciously AW sees you as a strong representation of authority. And one of the things that has come across since ive first known AW is his strong dislike of authority. So in a way he's able to have a social game where he can go against authority without the repercussions of being arrested or physically harmed if here to rebel against authority in real life. Could this be possible?

quote:
He reads the post, being threatened, and then tries to fight his fear of that threat in order to prove that he has nothing to fear, by undermining that post. This is a realistic assumption of how his emotions would have reacted.




I think this is typical of many people. Particularly bullies. (I don't think AW is a bully though.)

Bullies are very terrified of the world and their only way of dealing with it is aggressively and immaturely. I think by hurting another and having power over them gives them the only feeling of control they will ever have.

I can see what you're saying about fear motivating AW. And that when he feels fear he finds himself acting aggressively toward the thing that caused that fear in him.

quote:
So he reads the post, and sees that it is way shorter than he thought, doesn't at first appear overly threatening, but he doesn't believe it. He feels it is threatening. Then he starts to see it...



One thing that struck me when reading this that I think is important is this.

The above behavior to me is what we all do when we try to keep our view of reality intact. We have spent all our lives creating and ordering the world around us into a picture that fits into our perceived reality. And I guess seeing you as a symbol of authority means that he needs to see you as a stern, powerful, uncompromising, angry person who cant be reasoned with and who will punish him for his misbehavior.

And though he may not realise this, his mind has set up a win win situation. Because if he manages to trick you or to win an argument against you he will feel the emotional things I pointed out above in regards to a reward. But EVEN if he does get caught out and fails to make you feel the way he wanted you to, you will have reinforced in him the very thing he needs to see you as. That symbol of authority. And your actions will prove to him that authority is as harsh an uncompromising as he believes it to be.

It will also prove to him that he cannot communicate with you (which is what he says more than once) because you're too much of an authority figure- with all of the things that he sees authority figures to have.

quote:
So in answer to your question, i feel AW reacted the way he did because he observed that i was being a dick to his brother, and rather than confront his brother about it and acknowledge that someone in his family is a serious idiot, he decided to instead try to project unto me the idea that I am seriously mistaken due to bias and instability.



This is a common problem. I often feel that too many people will side with someone they are close to regardless of whether that person is right or wrong. I have never understood the saying: blood is thicker than water. If someone does something I am totally against then I will tell them. And if they are criticized for it I will tell them I feel the same way also and will not support them.

I think there are too many instances when people can get away with what they do because those around them defend them rather than attack them for their bad actions. They attack the wrong person. Usually the person trying to point out the problem with that person in question- which means that person will never have to correct their problems.



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"When I was a child I flew! Then as an adult- I watched others soar."
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Chained Wings is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
What differentiates AW from a bully to you?


To me, a bully is someone who habitually does what they do. That is, seeks out people who they see as weaker than themselves and acts aggressively toward them in order to feel powerful.

They tend to gravitate toward those they are able to manipulate in this way and tend to avoid those who are stronger than themselves and who make them feel weak.

If AW was a bully then he would always be doing this on the forums and it would not be a one off thing here and there. One way to do this would be to put down the newest members whenever they join as they are still finding their feet, and I have not observed this. It may be that you can go through all his posts and show times when he has done this- but if he was doing this I think it would stand out allot more.

Another way for him to satisfy his bully urges would to be only communicate with people who are not good at defending themselves or who he feels do not put up a fight when he attacks them. This I have not observed either.

Infact given all we have discussed, it seems he gravitates toward those who he cant push around like yourself and seems to be more into fighting losing battles. This to me is not the behaviour of a bully.


The only thing off the top of my head that he shares in common with a bully is his fear of authority and his means of dealing with it. But many people have that trait.


quote:


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This is a common problem. I often feel that too many people will side with someone they are close to regardless of whether that person is right or wrong. I have never understood the saying: blood is thicker than water. If someone does something I am totally against then I will tell them. And if they are criticized for it I will tell them I feel the same way also and will not support them.

I think there are too many instances when people can get away with what they do because those around them defend them rather than attack them for their bad actions. They attack the wrong person. Usually the person trying to point out the problem with that person in question- which means that person will never have to correct their problems.

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I feel like you do this a lot, yet, your perspective of it isn't protecting someone wrong, it's giving someone you empathize with the benefit of the doubt. I think you overly resort to giving someone the benefit of the doubt because you'd rather think well of everyone... especially people you have grown to care and/or respect.




I haven't noticed this. Thankyou for pointing it out. I will keep it in mind in the future.

quote:

So what is your stand on the whole situation now?

Was AW aggressive in his post?


Yes.



quote:
Did he use manipulation tactics?




Yes.

quote:

Did he try to undermine me to protect his brother and also upgrade himself?



Yes.


quote:
Did he refuse to acknowledge his attempts?



Yes.

quote:
Does he do this regularly?




I would be lying if I said yes to this because I have only been made aware of his actions in the last week. But I imagine if I was to go back and look at his behaviour over the years with this in mind I would see this as a common pattern.


quote:
What is his purpose here?



Only he can answer truly answer that. We all have different motivations for coming to CC and posting. I don't think his only purpose is negative. I think he sees allot on this site to help him grow and is attracted to it for various reasons. Maybe im being vague here, but I don't have enough inside knowledge on this to say with any great detail. Perhaps because of the past you've had with him you have been observing his behaviour and come to a conclusion. But I haven't been in that situation to be able to do so.



quote:
After writing this last statement, let me throw something out there - do you think it is feasible that AW acts moreso like a dumbass in this regard with ME, because he views ME as a threat? And may actually seek to learn and improve himself with people he doesn't view as a threat?



This is a very interesting question. I will have to give it more thought.

But I do think that he sees you more than anyone else here as a means to improve himself. I think he looks up to you and would like to be like you in many ways. But because of the things we have discovered in this discussion, there are certain personality traits which hinder his ability to communicate with you in a way that you feel is beneficial to both you and he. Perhaps you feel you are not getting as much out of your communications with him as you would like, which leads to a one sided relationship?

But regardless of wether he sees you as a threat and can sometimes act like a dick with you, I think that if you were not here he would learn allot less, as he would never be challenged to do so. Nor confronted with his behaviour when he acts like a dick.

quote:

If so, would that mean a plausible solution is to just keep him away from me?



That depends on how both of you feel. I think that AW would like to continue talking to you in the future. But I am unsure if you feel the same. As I said, I think he learns more from you than anyone else here, so it depends on what you are looking for in all this. If you want something in return for the time you spend with him and feel you will never get it, then maybe you are losing out. If your main interest when you talk to him is because you want him to change himself and learn and grow then id say to keep things the way they are.


quote:
If so, what happens when someone else on the forum threatens him?


It is up to him to read what has been said and to take it inside himself and try to stop himself from being aggressive in the way he has been shown to do. And if he cannot do so then it is up to the person who he is acting this way toward to say they feel threatened or demeaned or are not happy with his behaviour. And if he and they cannot resolve the problem it is up to the moderators and yourself to decide the best way of handling this. Or if you see this behaviour and feel it is hindering the conversation in a thread then you can intervene.



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"When I was a child I flew! Then as an adult- I watched others soar."
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Chained Wings is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Because we all have different ideas on what makes a bully, I can understand why you might not agree. If you see him as a bully Id be interested in why you think this. Not because I don't agree, but because I accept that because of the way I see bullying behaviour, I may not be able to pick up on this and am interested to see another view point to what makes a bully and how to see it when its not so obvious.

As for not feeling I'm in a position to make suggestions, I thought I was making suggestions. I felt that the most important thing about this conversation is that we have been bouncing ideas off of one another and it has allowed you to give a more thorough analysis of why all of this occurred.

I think becuse of all this, AW has to take this onboard and will therefore in the future be aware of his actions when he posts. Its not like he can ignore this. And moreso, even if he cannot always address this because its a learnt thing in his subconscious, there is always everyone else who has witnessed this and will know that sort of behavior. And even if they cannot always see this, then I know you can, and are not adverse to pointing it out to him when he acts this way.

I'm unsure what exactly you feel is the right thing to do about this. But personally, I think just because of the fallout of the situation AW has been made aware of his behaviour and can in no way ignore it.

What I want to point out also, is that you have spent allot of time talking with AW and there are times you have gotten on quite well. If you felt he was not worth the time you would never have come so far, nor would you have spent so much time communicating with him. There have been ppl who have not lasted a couple of of months on this site before being banned. So to me this says that AW is the sort of person that can grow and become better because of what happened to him on this site.

You would have to be more specific as to what you think should be done about it. I thought that you stopping him when he tried to do what he did, calling him out on it and then starting a conversation about it where you point out what it was he was doing was enough.

And the things I have said, and the conversation which took place and then progressed has been what has been done about it. You can ban AW or you can do other things to make him feel bad. But that doesnt really solve the problem of ineffective communication. By us talking about it when someone uses those methods, is the most important thing.

And if you feel AW needs to be made to learn a lesson - I don't think a more effective lesson than to have a public display of his behaviour in the very place we all want to look good and preen our egos can be achieved.

As for what you said about my defending ppl who may be in the wrong. I said that I hadnt noticed that before and totally agree. And it was those things that you listed above that made me aware of that.

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"When I was a child I flew! Then as an adult- I watched others soar."
What is effective communication? - Page 2
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